Admitting We Don't Know

[The Light]

Why is it so hard to admit what we don't know or don't fully understand?

One thing that has troubled me lately in my Christian walk is the level of dogmatism that so pervades the brotherhood. We are dogmatic about so many things that we honestly cannot say with certainty is God's ways and we allow our respective dogmas to divide us. If anything grieves our Lord and saviour more I sure would want to see it.

I used to think I knew what was right about the afterlife, hell, the soul, etc., then I got on this forum and read a lot and studied a lot, and parayed a lot, and what I have learned is that brethren with dissenting views have a scriptural basis for their beliefs. But, the problem I see is that people on one side of an issue don't seem to give credence to the other side despite what seemingly equal scriptural backing exists. This is the case with hell, baptism, denominationalism, and too many issues than I care to list.

In my heart I feel we may need to humble ourselves as we weight the entirety of the Word of God and be willing to say these simple words: I don't know. As long as we commit ourselve to Him that judgest righteously, we are in good shape and we need not let dogma divide us especially when there's no clear declaration that one is right and the opposing view is wrong.

So is Hell eternal punishing?
I do not know for certain, but what I do know is that as long as I trust in Jesus and love those I encounter enough to show them they need Jesus as well, that answer is not something we'd need to worry about.

Do I need to be baptised to be saved?
I do not know, but I do know the Bible mentions it and it is available to me, so I will submit to it as I humble myself in a commitment to be pleasing to God.

 

[reba]

In light (pun intended) of your post... This site was part of opening my spiritual eyes to many of the things you mentioned. Being exposed to many Christians of different flavors.... A segment of our ToS says it clearly....

2.4: . . . .. Address issues not personalities. Respect where people are in their spiritual walk, and respect all others in general. Respect where others are in their spiritual walk, do not disrupt the flow of discussion or act in a way that affects others negatively including when debating doctrinal issues, in the defense of the Christian faith, and in offering unwelcome spiritual advice.

I am not the same Christian i was any number of years ago.. The Light , Nice post,

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Why is it so hard to admit what we don't know or don't fully understand?

Pride.

Not only is pride the "chief cause in the decline of husbands and wives" (Roger Miller--youtube it), but it's also the reason why we Christians are so hesitant to admit we don't know, don't fully understand, or admit we were wrong.

Reminds me of when Fonzie couldn't say 'I was wrong':

 

[jasoncran]

im humble, I know it all and have it all figured out. I wish you all would just believe in what I teach.

 

[Mike S]

[quote="jasoncran, post: 879284, member: 352"]im humble, I know it all and have it all figured out. I wish you all would just believe in what I teach.[/quote]

Nice touch, Jason. I like it.

To be a little more serious for a minute, I think we all need to know and accept that there is mystery about our faith. There are certain things we will not understand completely during our lifetimes - "for now we see as if through a glass darkly...now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." - but, we have faith.

 

[jasoncran]

[quote="jasoncran, post: 879284, member: 352"]im humble, I know it all and have it all figured out. I wish you all would just believe in what I teach.

Nice touch, Jason. I like it.

To be a little more serious for a minute, I think we all need to know and accept that there is mystery about our faith. There are certain things we will not understand completely during our lifetimes - "for now we see as if through a glass darkly...now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." - but, we have faith.[/quote]
I agree, I had to say that way as well I can be very stubborn. the stiff necked thing fits this jew and runs in the cranmans.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Why is it so hard to admit what we don't know or don't fully understand?

One thing that has troubled me lately in my Christian walk is the level of dogmatism that so pervades the brotherhood. We are dogmatic about so many things that we honestly cannot say with certainty is God's ways and we allow our respective dogmas to divide us. If anything grieves our Lord and saviour more I sure would want to see it.

I used to think I knew what was right about the afterlife, hell, the soul, etc., then I got on this forum and read a lot and studied a lot, and parayed a lot, and what I have learned is that brethren with dissenting views have a scriptural basis for their beliefs. But, the problem I see is that people on one side of an issue don't seem to give credence to the other side despite what seemingly equal scriptural backing exists. This is the case with hell, baptism, denominationalism, and too many issues than I care to list.

In my heart I feel we may need to humble ourselves as we weight the entirety of the Word of God and be willing to say these simple words: I don't know. As long as we commit ourselve to Him that judgest righteously, we are in good shape and we need not let dogma divide us especially when there's no clear declaration that one is right and the opposing view is wrong.

So is Hell eternal punishing?
I do not know for certain, but what I do know is that as long as I trust in Jesus and love those I encounter enough to show them they need Jesus as well, that answer is not something we'd need to worry about.

Do I need to be baptised to be saved?
I do not know, but I do know the Bible mentions it and it is available to me, so I will submit to it as I humble myself in a commitment to be pleasing to God.

I have stronger opinions about certain things, but I respect where people are in their walk and try not to divide over these issues. While in these settings I will of course defend my positions as that is the purpose of this forum, however I don't capitalize on my position about the final punishment as I understand why most people disagree.

I think if you admit to know, you should offer sufficient justification. And if not, then you absolutely should be willing to say you don't really know.

 

[clark thompson]

When the word is clear on something we should by faith know, this does not mean we have first hand experience.

 

[King James]

Many of the times I've been rude here to others, it was because how emotions develop when I follow false doctrines. In the quest for truth it is possible to go down many dead end roads and burn some bridges. That be all.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Many of the times I've been rude here to others, it was because how emotions develop when I follow false doctrines. In the quest for truth it is possible to go down many dead end roads and burn some bridges. That be all.

Great quote, honest, sincere, humble.

 

[mondar]

Not all "I do not knows" are equally valid. There are three different attitudes one can have in making a statement "I do not know." One of those attitudes is wrong and is a sinful attack on the authority of scriptures, the other two are just a fact of the nature of who we are as limited human beings.

1-The first attitude is that a person can make the statement "I do not know" with integrity is when we potentially might know a subject if we had the tools, the knowledge, and ability, but we just do not have the bible study skills to discern the truth of a scriptural teaching. I do not have the education and ability to collate manuscripts. On the other hand, I do think I have the experience and knowledge of why the Johannine Comma is not to be considered as part of the autographs. The point here is that we all have different abilities.

2-Not all scriptural teachings are made with the same clarity. There is an old reformed doctrine called the "perspicuity of scriptures" that teaches that while not all passages in the scripture can be understood with equal clarity. There are passages and subjects in the scripture that are more obvious and some that are more difficult. Just because a passage or a subject is difficult does not mean no one can understand the passage or the subject, but simply that it is more difficult. When approaching such subjects, more people will make mistakes. The difficult subjects are usually less important. The Gospel is painfully obvious. The resurrection of the dead is painfully obvious. The point here is that things in the scriptures have different degrees of difficulty.

3-The last reason that a person would say "I do not know" is a sinful and wrong attitude. In our subjective culture today it is popular to take an agnostic attitude toward any and all truth. It is one thing to say "I do not know." Its another things to say "nobody can know for certainty." I know for certainty that we are sinners, and that Christ died in our place to pay for sin. This is not a subjective truth that people can take different views on and equally be right. Its either right, or wrong. The point here is that many people sinfully attack the authority of scriptures making its truths subjective in content.

Not all "I do not knows" are equally valid.

 

[Sparkey]

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.​

1 John 2:15-16​

​

• The lust of the flesh includes tasting, touching, smelling, and hearing.
• The lust of the eyes is seeing.
• The pride of life is thinking you are special because of who you are, what you have, what you know, or what you look like.

We are to admonish, to teach the truth in kindness, to show what has been revealed. We do not follow Jesus when we vaunt ourselves over others: "[Let] nothing [be done] through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than themselves. Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others." [Phl 2:3-4 KJV]

In the Garden of Eden: "The woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat." [Genesis 3:6] The woman, Eve, saw that the tree was good for food – the lust of the flesh, it was pleasant to the eyes – the lust of the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise – the pride of life.

Part of our sin involves having an unbalanced scale in our possession where we weigh ourselves and others giving preference for our knowledge and the wisdom found in our mouths as if it is more sound because it came from us.


How do we ignore Jesus? Do we not ignore his sacrifice when we weigh others and find them wanting?

 

[WIP]

Its true. I dont know. Most of the time i admit it, but there is times i think im right and post then figure out i was wrong, maybe from own study, or someone has quoted me wrong, who does make more sense. I have come to realise a couple things i need to improve on. Sometimes it just takes one word to make something sound too proud or put out wrong. Just adding a simple word like 'maybe' or 'possibly' can make all the difference but easy to forget in the moment, and change something from a statement it really was not intended to be.

Example:

.....and that was the case.
....and maybe that was the case.

One trick that I will use is to write my comments using a word processor rather than responding directly to threads online. This provides me the ability to set it aside for a while so I can return to it later to proofread and make changes to tone down what I am saying rather than applying emotional reaction. It is amazing how many changes I will make to some of my posts before actually posting them to the site.

Too often I wish I had this ability in real life conversation! It would go a long way toward improving my personal interactions with people.

 

[Sparkey]

WIP,

I remember times when I was being trained for lifting heavy weights. We started with very light weights while moving slow; concentrating on form only. Each movement was considered. Every act became deliberate during training.

Reflective writing is like that. We train ourselves to be slow to speak and quick to listen. Is this something you reflect on?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

We train ourselves to be slow to speak and quick to listen.

.....and then you get weighed and are found waiting.

 

[farouk]

Its true. I dont know. Most of the time i admit it, but there is times i think im right and post then figure out i was wrong, maybe from own study, or someone has quoted me wrong, who does make more sense. I have come to realise a couple things i need to improve on. Sometimes it just takes one word to make something sound too proud or put out wrong. Just adding a simple word like 'maybe' or 'possibly' can make all the difference but easy to forget in the moment, and change something from a statement it really was not intended to be.

Example:

.....and that was the case.
....and maybe that was the case.

I guess also the point is, Where do we want to get our knowledge from? Like, from God's Word?

 

[farouk]

One trick that I will use is to write my comments using a word processor rather than responding directly to threads online. This provides me the ability to set it aside for a while so I can return to it later to proofread and make changes to tone down what I am saying rather than applying emotional reaction. It is amazing how many changes I will make to some of my posts before actually posting them to the site.

Too often I wish I had this ability in real life conversation! It would go a long way toward improving my personal interactions with people.

In this way one develops a broader, rather than a possibly reactive, perspective.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Oh, I'm finding out all the time just how much--the enormity--of what I don't know. I don't usually spend much time here in apologetics & theology, but being on this site has taught me some things, even though it usually doesn't change my mind...but it showed me that there are other beliefs and doctrines out there than what I grew up with or am familiar with, and that can be really interesting. It's because of this forum that I no longer have any really set opinion on Biblical prophecy...after hearing all the opinions and finding not much to refute them all or anything that would make them inferior to my previously held end-time views, how can I claim to know anything about Bible prophecy for sure? (It's in God's hands anyway.)

One trick that I will use is to write my comments using a word processor rather than responding directly to threads online. This provides me the ability to set it aside for a while so I can return to it later to proofread and make changes to tone down what I am saying rather than applying emotional reaction. It is amazing how many changes I will make to some of my posts before actually posting them to the site.

My posts often go through numerous edits before I'm done, even after hitting the "post" button. Because it's usually after I hit the post button that I think of some way to clarify myself, or come up with something better to say.
Adds a challenge to posting in an active thread, if someone responds to my post before I'm done editing it to say what I wanted to get across.

 

[farouk]

Oh, I'm finding out all the time just how much--the enormity--of what I don't know. I don't usually spend much time here in apologetics & theology, but being on this site has taught me some things, even though it usually doesn't change my mind...but it showed me that there are other beliefs and doctrines out there than what I grew up with or am familiar with, and that can be really interesting. It's because of this forum that I no longer have any really set opinion on Biblical prophecy...after hearing all the opinions and finding not much to refute them all or anything that would make them inferior to my previously held end-time views, how can I claim to know anything about Bible prophecy for sure? (It's in God's hands anyway.)



My posts often go through numerous edits before I'm done, even after hitting the "post" button. Because it's usually after I hit the post button that I think of some way to clarify myself, or come up with something better to say.
Adds a challenge to posting in an active thread, if someone responds to my post before I'm done editing it to say what I wanted to get across.

A useful guide: is the passage talking primarily about the church or Israel?

Blessings.

 

[eddif]

The natural fallen man wants credit for being like God.
There is a limit to natural man. Oh, man has words at his disposal; a very dangerous part of being made in the image of God. With words Babel was started. God saw the need to confuse our language. We still try and function on our natural level. My flesh is almost on the animal level. I can train my flesh, but it will still be flesh. I accept forgiveness.

The good news: Through the work of Jesus a new birth is possible. Now all I (the new man)have to do is confess sins and allow the Holy Spirit to fight against the flesh from the inside out (way oversimplified).
So the flesh is weak, and a new greater force begins. A work I can not claim credit for. Jesus died for sins. The Holy Spirit works inside the new man of the mind (my favorite words, but maybe not everyone's).

So I have a wretched part, and a newborn part. No wonder some of my thoughts have to be crucified daily. If I do something correctly, God gets the credit for good.

And that is about all I know about that (lol).


eddif