Aisha - Muhammad's child bride

[Sanitarium]

As requested I have opened this topic for discussion. Is the marriage of Muhammad to a six year old child an example that can be followed by Muslims or was it a special exemption for Muhammad? Many Muslims will state either it was for Muhammad only (ie. here "it was only for the prophet (peace be upon him)") or they go to great lengths to attempt to show that Aisha was actually older.

Based on the evidence, Aisha was 6 years old when Muhamad married her and 9 years old when the marriage was consummated.
ahadith concerning Aisha's age
Aisha was pre-pubescent when Muhammad consummated the marriage

Furthermore, the evidence shows that this is Sunnah and Muslims may also marry and have sex with pre-pubescent girls, just as Muhammad did, as we find that Allah, in the Quran, sanctions this behaviour also.
Paedophilia in the Quran

Of course I'm not saying this is fard (obligatory) but any Muslim man who has the inclination and the money (for the dowry) can follow Muhammad's example and it is sanctioned by Allah.

 

[Love25]

Can I ask why you as atheist come to attack Islam in christian forum!?

See this Subject you opened for Muslims, Christians and Jews are not reason to not accept the Message of God send to us by Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) even if the picture is like what you try to promote,

and IF christians and Jews reject prophet Mohamed 's (pbuh) message depending on such thing then they should Reject all Propehts and Messanger of God mentioned in their holy books, I just mentioned this so that we can keep this subject between Me as Muslim and you as Athiest and Christians and Jews can only read what we write to each other!

Concerning age of Aisha when married to Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) this Hadith is right Hundred percent so as you see we USE only SAHIH (RIGHT) Hadith and we dont use those which is Fabricated or inserted and EXPOSED long ago Hadiths, like you and others USE when it SERVE yours and their NEEDS!!

Concerning this matter there is no exception to Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) at all, as this matter is OPEN to Muslims to decide it as Islam gave Contidions and not FIXED age, which gives freedom to humans to choose depending on their conditions which is Kind of Freedom and Mercy given to us from God!

So Islam didnt give fixed age for marriage but made conditions that the Girl should be ready phiscaly and mentaly which for sure differ between one Girl and another!

For example today each country have its own regulations and age of Consent, in SPAIN and Mexico for example Girl should be 12, in some USA states it is 14 and so on, and NOTICE that if the Husband of this Girl is less then 15 then the age of Consent of the Girl in many countires become even less!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_co ... th_America

http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm

So as we can see each country in PRESENT time differ in its laws and traditions due to their needs!!!

So now we are talking between what happened 1400 Years ago and Present time so in order to understand that we should now return to what were normal at those times and till recent times by the way:

They lived at those times in small tribes everyone knew each other, Boys and Girls didnt have to go to schools or to finish Universities, at those times people didnt live for long times, so they get married early, even when Girl or Boy born parents already agree that the boy and the girl will get married when they grow, thats why due to Hadith also we find that Aisha were engaged to another man before she married Prophet Mohamed (pbuh!

In Present times when 11 years Old girl married from 13 years year boy this is considered ok, but if same Girl married to Old man this is Pedophilia and I and Muslims agree about such laws becuase conditions and life is changed we now live in big cities and numbers of humans became very big and people dont know each other, so how we would know if this man will not use or be bad to those little girls!?

While this were not the case in those small tribes were everyone knew each other since the day they are born!

So with knowing all the above Factors and History and FACTS from Past and present time now lets return to the subject of this Thread:

The Hadith that talks about age of Aisha said by who!?

Answer; By Aisha her self!!

Aisha (pbuh) were one of Most important sources for Hadith for all Muslims!

Comment: so women after all made great rule in Islam!!

If we read all her Hadiths what we can understand!?

Answer:

She loved prophet Mohamed (pbuh) very much during his life time and after!

Who were Aisha!?

Answer:

She were DAUGHTER of ABU Bakr (pbuh) one of highest and strongest people in Quraish before Islam and after and one who embraced Islam from begining and were first Caliphate and were friend and companion of Prophet Mohamed (pbuh)!!

What is opinion of Father and Mother of Aisha (pbuh) about her marriage to prophet Mohamed (pbuh)!?

Answer:

They were very happy and Honored!

Did anyone of Muslims or non Muslims saw anything strange in this marriage:

Answer:

NO, not even western christian countries till recent times!

In case you say:

But Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) should be example that you Muslims should follow!?

Answer:

Yes and we do although this is very hard becuase he were Great Prophet (pbuh), in Islam there is no fixed age not due to Quran or due to Hadith and this were left to Humans to decide, also Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) married woman who were OLD and widowed just to Honor her and to be able to take of her so why you dont mention that example also!?

And tell me which President or Prime minister who will choose Old and widowed woman to Mary her just to Honor and take care of her!?

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Now lets return to present times little:

1- In present times in Muslim countries we have fixed ages for marriages, becuase times are changed and needs are changed and Islam due to Quran and hadith gave us FREEDOM in this matter same like in other matters as Mercy from our creator!

2- In present times those who talk about this matter have no Virgins as their girls are no longer Virigins from ages 08 till 15 MAXIMUM which make us Muslims wonder:

Maybe it is better to you make them get married better then they are like that.......

3- In Islam we know how to protect our Girls becuase Girl come out from her parents house to her Husband house and Her parents opinion is respected and taken in consideration when Husband is choosen for her and they are not left to chance or to be used by others before those others decide to marry her or not, like Maradona who had children before he decided to get married!!!

4- With un Limited freedom you follow you have such problems of pedophelia and no Vrigins, fornication etc..... while we dont have such high rates like you do becuase we follow foot steps of our Prophet Mohamed (pbuh)!

Peace

 

[Sanitarium]

So Islam didnt give fixed age for marriage but made conditions that the Girl should be ready phiscaly and mentaly which for sure differ between one Girl and another!

Where are the narrations stating that a girl must be physically and mentally ready? remember i have provided evidence showing that the Quran endorses paedophilia with pre-pubescent females so this alone shows that Islam does NOT require that a female be physically ready.

For example today each country have its own regulations and age of Consent,

Irrelevant. We are talking about Uswa Hasana (the best example of conduct) Muhammad, and the word of god (the Quran). Bringing in man made laws to refute or soften Islam's allowance of such an abhorrent act is completely irrelevant.

So now we are talking between what happened 1400 Years ago and Present time so in order to understand that we should now return to what were normal at those times and till recent times by the way:

1. Again no, Muhammad is the "best example" for Muslims to follow and he set the example of marrying a child. Any Muslim who has such an inclination is now free to copy that part of Muhammad's behaviour.

2. If the Quran is a book for all times, then we can apply it's rulings to every day and not just 1450 years ago. Since 65.4 clearly allows marriage and consummation with pre-pubescent girls, then it is allowed to this day.

3. There is NO evidence that paedophilia was socially acceptable in pre-Islamic Arabia. The only evidence we have is that it was acceptable AFTER Muhammad set the example.
Your moral relativism is not acceptable.

people didnt live for long times, so they get married early,

I am willing to concede that people got married earlier in those days, but the age difference was not so severe. There is no evidence of old adults marrying children.

Refresh my memory: how old were these people when they died?
1. Khadija
2. Waraqa
3. Muhammad
4. Aisha
5. Abu Bakr

(I'm sure you get my point here?)

She loved prophet Mohamed (pbuh) very much during his life time and after!

How does this show that Muhammad did not have sex with a child? How does this make paedophilia alright?

NO, not even western christian countries till recent times!

Again you're attempting to draw a paralell between what god says and what man's laws are. This is incorrect....unless we are gods?

Yes and we do although this is very hard becuase he were Great Prophet (pbuh), in Islam there is no fixed age not due to Quran or due to Hadith and this were left to Humans to decide,

No, the Quran makes it clear that you can marry and have sex with pre-pubescent females. There is nothing left that you need to decide.

also Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) married woman who were OLD and widowed just to Honor her and to be able to take of her so why you dont mention that example also!?

Muhammad married 1 (old) widow - Sawda. Apart from Khadija also, ALL of Muhammad's wives were young (teenagers or younger).

In present times those who talk about this matter have no Virgins as their girls are no longer Virigins from ages 08 till 15 MAXIMUM which make us Muslims wonder:

What does this have to do with the issue? Also I respectfully state that you have NO IDEA as to the number of virgins in western society - and you are making a mass generalisation (logical fallacy).

I have ignored everything else in your post because it is irrelevant to this issue. Again you seem hell bent on derailing the thread instead of answering the question.

I have presented expert testimony that Muhammad married and had sex with a child and that it is allowed from God and the Sunnah for Muslims to do the same (should they wish).

You have stated that this is not the case - the Islam dictates that you must make sure the girl is physically and mentally mature. Please provide your evidence. You will also have to refute the Quranic evidence.

Thanks

 

[Love25]

Where are the narrations stating that a girl must be physically and mentally ready? remember i have provided evidence showing that the Quran endorses paedophilia with pre-pubescent females so this alone shows that Islam does NOT require that a female be physically ready.

I didnt say phisicaly ready to have children I said phiscaly ready to have sexual life!

Islam allows early marriage and even encourage it while in present systems even in Islamic countries due to laws that made age of marriage high this led to adultry and fornication etc.... and resutls you can see you your communities, and you cannot deny that!

Irrelevant. We are talking about Uswa Hasana (the best example of conduct) Muhammad, and the word of god (the Quran). Bringing in man made laws to refute or soften Islam's allowance of such an abhorrent act is completely irrelevant.

I dont Soften anything actualy I am with early marriage as this will reduce Fornication, Adultry etc... and this is better then you dont have Virgins while they are not married!

Results of following Human made rules we can see them in present times!

-----------------------------

1. Again no, Muhammad is the "best example" for Muslims to follow and he set the example of marrying a child. Any Muslim who has such an inclination is now free to copy that part of Muhammad's behaviour.

Again this is coming from you who came from communities that marriage is not that important while you all comitt fornication and adultry and very rare to see vrigins in your communties!

For you your little girl become no Vrigin is OK while getting married is Problem, you are very strange people!

And if you tell me no it is problem for you then how you will solve it if not early marriage solution!?

------------------------------

2. If the Quran is a book for all times, then we can apply it's rulings to every day and not just 1450 years ago. Since 65.4 clearly allows marriage and consummation with pre-pubescent girls, then it is allowed to this day.

Already i answered that better to make your little NOT VIRGIN girls mary early then they are no longer virgin without marriage, what is the difference!?

------------------------------

3. There is NO evidence that paedophilia was socially acceptable in pre-Islamic Arabia. The only evidence we have is that it was acceptable AFTER Muhammad set the example.
Your moral relativism is not acceptable.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/4074430/Early ... lam-Part-1

I am willing to concede that people got married earlier in those days, but the age difference was not so severe. There is no evidence of old adults marrying children.

Refresh my memory: how old were these people when they died?
1. Khadija
2. Waraqa
3. Muhammad
4. Aisha
5. Abu Bakr

(I'm sure you get my point here?)

Sure and your point is answerd in above link I gave!

-----------------------------

How does this show that Muhammad did not have sex with a child? How does this make paedophilia alright?

Care first about your little girls who are not Vrigins any more and without marriage, the problem is in your Man made regulations that led to Fornication and adultry instead of solving such things that due to them a lot of problems happen to humans!

---------------------------

[quote:117ogljm]Again you're attempting to draw a paralell between what god says and what man's laws are. This is incorrect....unless we are gods?

Read the link above in answers you!

----------------------------

No, the Quran makes it clear that you can marry and have sex with pre-pubescent females. There is nothing left that you need to decide.

The Verse in the quran says it is ok to marry early but it is not obligation!

Islam encourage people to live decent and chaste life so how would you solve the problem of foirnication, adultry etc.... if not by encouraging early marriage, and again present life is example of that, even in Muslim countries that made age of consent high they begin to have same problems which west have in huge rates!

-----------------------------

Muhammad married 1 (old) widow - Sawda. Apart from Khadija also, ALL of Muhammad's wives were young (teenagers or younger).

This doesnt answer what I asked you!

And Notice also that prophet Mohamed (pbuh) could have any number of wives even before Islam as in those times they didnt have any problem in that comparing to present times were west live in very sick way as un limited freedom you follow led you that soon Humans will get married to animals (already we see that in west)!

-----------------------------

What does this have to do with the issue? Also I respectfully state that you have NO IDEA as to the number of virgins in western society - and you are making a mass generalisation (logical fallacy).

I didnt calculate how many Vrigins in west and I didnt say there is not virgins on west but for sure me and you know very well that it is RARE thing to find virgin in west!

And it have very strong conection with the subject of this thread and that Islam gave us in early marriage Solution to keep our little girls chaste and honorable and instead they are no vrigins SINNERS it is always better to make them get married at least they will not look LOW, which intresting that this became normal in your communties!

-------------------------------------

I have ignored everything else in your post because it is irrelevant to this issue. Again you seem hell bent on derailing the thread instead of answering the question.

[/quote:117ogljm]

Ignore what you want but as you said Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) is OSWA HASANA good example for us and in each marriage he showed us examples, and in early marriage this is solution to a lot of problems!

see you could have the right to talk about such thing if your Girls were vrigins and your women didnt comitt fornication , and if you communities respected Marriage from first place, which is not the case in your communities!

Peace

 

[Sanitarium]

I didnt say phisicaly ready to have children I said phiscaly ready to have sexual life!

Yes I know. Where in the Islamic texts does it outline when physical readiness is?

Islam allows early marriage and even encourage it while in present systems even in Islamic countries due to laws that made age of marriage high this led to adultry and fornication etc.... and resutls you can see you your communities, and you cannot deny that!

This is irrelevant. We are discussing older men marrying pre-pubescent girls. You cannot possibly expect ANYONE to believe that 6 year old girls (or even 12 or 13 years) are promiscuous. In fact sex has been shown to be detrimental if the girl is too young.

I dont Soften anything actualy I am with early marriage as this will reduce Fornication, Adultry etc... and this is better then you dont have Virgins while they are not married!

Results of following Human made rules we can see them in present times!

So you would give your 6 year old daughter to a Muslim man, provided he paid an adequete Mahr?

Side note: I know for a fact that there are virgins in Western socieity so you are clearly wrong (yes this is off topic).

Again this is coming from you who came from communities that marriage is not that important while you all comitt fornication and adultry and very rare to see vrigins in your communties!

Tu Quoque.

And if you tell me no it is problem for you then how you will solve it if not early marriage solution!?

We put paedophiles in Jail. What do you do? click here

The subject of this thread is not (comparable age) early marriage - it is paedophilia as endorsed by your prophet and your God. Please stop derailing the thread.

Also anymore Tu Quoque (your society is just as bad or worse!) will be ignored.

Thanks!

 

[Love25]

Yes I know. Where in the Islamic texts does it outline when physical readiness is?

Without gowing far the Hadith itself says so, other wise tell me why them Married at 06 and consumed Marriage at 09!?

------------------------

This is irrelevant. We are discussing older men marrying pre-pubescent girls. You cannot possibly expect ANYONE to believe that 6 year old girls (or even 12 or 13 years) are promiscuous. In fact sex has been shown to be detrimental if the girl is too young.

And this is already answered but for you I will repeat:

At those times they lived in tribes and all of them KNEW each other, in present times your human laws made it forbiden becuase your old men USE little girls etc........

Thats why when Old man if they marry young Girls in your countries it is problem, but if they marry young boys it is ok due to your own laws although Male organs are same as it dont differ bewteen Old man or Boy!

------------------------------------

So you would give your 6 year old daughter to a Muslim man, provided he paid an adequete Mahr?

No I will not becuase times are changed and I would like her to finish school first, and Islam gave me the right of such decision!

And Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) married women from different ages so again He didnt fix specific age for marriage!

-----------------------------------

[[Side note: I know for a fact that there are virgins in Western socieity so you are clearly wrong (yes this is off topic).]]

Really!?

You are lucky person then!

----------------------------------

We put paedophiles in Jail. What do you do?

And we Punish all Grils that are no longer vrigins and puish all who comitt fornication and Adultry, feel the difference!?

---------------------------------

The subject of this thread is not (comparable age) early marriage - it is paedophilia as endorsed by your prophet and your God. Please stop derailing the thread.

What is pedophelia for you is not for others, thats why there is need to EXPOSE your sick minded in sexual relations communties which shows that you are lat people on earth to talk about such matters!

Also anymore Tu Quoque (your society is just as bad or worse!) will be ignored.

Jesus (pbuh) in the bible said that we know them from their fruits and I agree with that hundred percent!

Learn when you talk about any subject in Islam to KNOW the whole Picture as we should be OPEN minded and not close ourself to one point and look at it from one side only!

Peace

 

[Sanitarium]

Without gowing far the Hadith itself says so, other wise tell me why them Married at 06 and consumed Marriage at 09!?

There is not concrete reason given. However we know that Aisha was sick at the time, something that made her hair fall out. When it grew back, her wetnurse got her off her swing and took her inside to Muhammad. Illness is a plausible reason.

At those times they lived in tribes and all of them KNEW each other, in present times your human laws made it forbiden becuase your old men USE little girls etc........

This makes no sense. Can you please explain what you mean in a different way?

Thats why when Old man if they marry young Girls in your countries it is problem, but if they marry young boys it is ok due to your own laws although Male organs are same as it dont differ bewteen Old man or Boy!

No it is illegal to marry a child or have sex with them.

No I will not becuase times are changed and I would like her to finish school first, and Islam gave me the right of such decision!

But it's sunnah! You will prevent a Muslim man from following Sunnah by marrying your daughter? What about the men who marry little girls today in Islam? What do you think about them?

And Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) married women from different ages so again He didnt fix specific age for marriage!

So? What does this have to do with anything?

Really!?

You are lucky person then!

Yeah I was pointing out your mass generalisation has no evidence behind it.

And we Punish all Grils that are no longer vrigins and puish all who comitt fornication and Adultry, feel the difference!?

Yes. Paedophilia is a crime and your 'crimes' are not. You let men molest little girls but you feel is a woman is missing a piece of skin then this is a crime. That is warped.

What is pedophelia for you is not for others, thats why there is need to EXPOSE your sick minded in sexual relations communties which shows that you are lat people on earth to talk about such matters!

No, Paedophilia is an set criteria of thoughts or behaviours -it is what it is, and just because it's socially acceptable (Islam) does not mean it is not paedophilia.

Jesus (pbuh) in the bible said that we know them from their fruits and I agree with that hundred percent!

Yes and you have just condoned paedophilia.

Learn when you talk about any subject in Islam to KNOW the whole Picture as we should be OPEN minded and not close ourself to one point and look at it from one side only!

I do not take the issue of child abuse lightly.

 

[Love25]

There is not concrete reason given. However we know that Aisha was sick at the time, something that made her hair fall out. When it grew back, her wetnurse got her off her swing and took her inside to Muhammad. Illness is a plausible reason.

Your source is!?
she were sick for three years!?

----------------------------------

This makes no sense. Can you please explain what you mean in a different way?

Why no sense if the Girl 10 and have sex with 12 years old Boy it is OK due to LAWS but if same 10 years old Girl but the Male organ came from 40 Years old man then this is crime due to law in m ost of western countries!

------------------------------

No it is illegal to marry a child or have sex with them.

and I didnt say something else, but of the one who made the little Girl no virgin is BOY then it is ok and legal!

------------------------------

[quote:3kyrhr07]But it's sunnah! You will prevent a Muslim man from following Sunnah by marrying your daughter? What about the men who marry little girls today in Islam? What do you think about them?

And were did you read that Sunnah says Fixed age!?

I dont have any problem if someone marry at young age and I see this is better then Fornication and Adultry that west live in it!

----------------------------

Yeah I was pointing out your mass generalisation has no evidence behind it.

I will leave this to you to decide between yourself about Number of Vrigins you have!

---------------------------

Yes. Paedophilia is a crime and your 'crimes' are not. You let men molest little girls but you feel is a woman is missing a piece of skin then this is a crime. That is warped.

Dear marriage in Islam is due regulations and we talk about people who fear God in all their actions, molets, abuse, rape is very strongly punsihed in Islam!

And again results is better to all man kind when we encourage early marriage and your communities and what they reached is best Prove for what I say!

-----------------------------

No, Paedophilia is an set criteria of thoughts or behaviours -it is what it is, and just because it's socially acceptable (Islam) does not mean it is not paedophilia.

Thoughts you talk about came from fornication comunities you live in it, so you are last people on earth to talk about such matters, in other words go solve your problems and reach our level socialy then come and talk with us about such subjects!

Mean while from what we see happening to your little girls and way you live we advice you to consder early marriage as solution to your social problems!

---------------------------

Yes and you have just condoned paedophilia.

Bible also says that Satan comes in form of sheep, the Title you wrote looks good but when we Dig deep we find it is Satanic teachings which lead for fornication and adultry and no vrigins without marriage etc......


---------------------------

I do not take the issue of child abuse lightly.

[/quote:3kyrhr07]

Child abuse is forbiden in Islam also, you now opened another subject not related with this one!

Peace

 

[Sanitarium]

Your source is!?
she were sick for three years!?

I didn't say "I know for a fact that she was sick for 3 years" but the way the narration is worded makes it appear so. Here it is:

Narrated Aisha:

The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.

Child abuse is forbiden in Islam also, you now opened another subject not related with this one!

Marrying and having sex with pre-pubescent girls is child abuse (hence paedophilia is a CRIME in civilised societies). It doesn't matter if your religion says its ok, it's still wrong; hence Islam DOES condone child abuse and it is directly related to this topic.

 

[Love25]

Marrying and having sex with pre-pubescent girls is child abuse (hence paedophilia is a CRIME in civilised societies). It doesn't matter if your religion says its ok, it's still wrong; hence Islam DOES condone child abuse and it is directly related to this topic.[/quote]

Since you mentioned the word CIVILISED as I showed you in above posts you are not:

CIVLISED societies!

Peace

 

[Sanitarium]

Since you mentioned the word CIVILISED as I showed you in above posts you are not:

CIVLISED societies!

This is off topic. If you'd like to start a thread on the morality of western society, please do so. Otherwise please stay ON TOPIC in my thread.

Thanks

 

[Love25]

Since you mentioned the word CIVILISED as I showed you in above posts you are not:

CIVLISED societies!

This is off topic. If you'd like to start a thread on the morality of western society, please do so. Otherwise please stay ON TOPIC in my thread.

Thanks

Sorry it is same like Theif comes to Honest man and say you are Theif!

Dear we Muslims are not in need to follow your standards of describing things becuase as I showed you are last people on earth to talk about such subjects for example:

Fornication for you became normal: For us NO!

Little Girls and no longer Virgins and this became Normal for you: For us NO!

Lesbians became Normal for you and they get married; For us NO!

Sodomoties became normal for you and kind of freedom: For us NO!

Porno media you are the source to it and some of you call it freedom; For us NO!

You have now organiztaion that make Humans Marry animals and soon this will be also Normal for you: For us this will never Happen!

So as you see what is normal for you for us is not!

So instead of you have little girls who are no longer virgins we make them get married better!!!

Feel the difference and the conection!?

If you dont for me:

I dont care, but you will not be able to refute those FACTS, but try if you want!

Peace

 

[Sanitarium]

WHAT?!!!!

(what does any of that having to do with Allah allowin sex with pre-pubescent girls? Or Muhammad himself doing so?)

 

[Love25]

WHAT?!!!!

(what does any of that having to do with Allah allowin sex with pre-pubescent girls? Or Muhammad himself doing so?)

Becuase if Islam allows early marriage then this is to prevent the list I gave you in previous post!

Peace

 

[Sanitarium]

Becuase if Islam allows early marriage then this is to prevent the list I gave you in previous post!

We aren't talking about early marriage (simply). We are talking about Allah allowing old men to have sex with pre-pubescent girls. If it were simply to prevent your <list of mass generalisations and falsehoods> then it would be marriage between people of comparable ages as the issue.

 

[Love25]

Becuase if Islam allows early marriage then this is to prevent the list I gave you in previous post!

We aren't talking about early marriage (simply). We are talking about Allah allowing old men to have sex with pre-pubescent girls. If it were simply to prevent your <list of mass generalisations and falsehoods> then it would be marriage between people of comparable ages as the issue.

dear In Islam we dont have permission for sex but persmission for Marriage, also in Islam all rules given to us from God is in benefit of All man Kind as rules in Islam give us way of life that prevent Evil to happen beside it tell us what to do if it already happened and how to solve it, and we dont have just rules without any reason!

And all what I did is explained to you why early marriage is allowed in Islam and I brought you evidence from your communities so that you dont have to do google search, and to show that you are last people on earth to talk about such things and for sure you have no right to put standereds to man kind that humans should follow the way you like it!

when you people talk about such matters it is same as if we brought Criminal to teach Honest people how to be Honest and how to be decent which is for sure ABSURD!

And your desparate try to change the subject and say this is not related to the subject will not help you in this thread!

Peace

 

[LostSoul]

I dont Soften anything actualy I am with early marriage as this will reduce Fornication, Adultry etc...

It is possible that yes, it would lower such things as fornication, adultry, etc....but in so does that not increase the risk of death? Children were not made to conceive children. Their bodies are much too small let alone delicate to do that without great risk to them. Not to mention one should consider their mental maturity. How many six year olds are fully capable of bearing and raising children?

This is coming from you who came from communities that marriage is not that important while you all comitt fornication and adultry and very rare to see vrigins in your communties!

Love, are you insisting that those who are not living where you are cannot value marriage at all? For on the contrary, that remark can be found rather offensive. Seeing as some of us are indeed married, and happily so. Not to mention, is there any one of us here...yourself included who has not commited some form of sin? Let us try not to judge one another please, okay?

For you your little girl become no Vrigin is OK while getting married is Problem, you are very strange people!

This is another generalization that can come off as offensive. For no one person can speak for everyone. Save God, Himself. For should my little girl had I one, were to engage in sexual activity and not abstain from it, I would be most disappointed. For God does want us to present ourselves holy, clean, and pure to Him. The only time any of us should engage in such intimacy is with our spouses. Marriage too is no delicate matter as I have tried also to state above in this response.

Marriage is no laughing matter, no joke, but a lifelong commitment. Most importantly a PROMISE to GOD. It is not merely a bind formed between man and woman, for anyone to tell me or anyone else basically that we are strange people...is offensive, seeing as stating that we all....or generalizing that basically most if not, everyone who is not like you must see things a certain way really comes off as wrong. Especially seeing as you do not know me. Nor do you necessarily know the hearts of everyone here.

I am sorry if this comes off as rude, but I will not lie to you, I was highly offended just reading this.

 

[Love25]

It is possible that yes, it would lower such things as fornication, adultry, etc....but in so does that not increase the risk of death? Children were not made to conceive children. Their bodies are much too small let alone delicate to do that without great risk to them. Not to mention one should consider their mental maturity. How many six year olds are fully capable of bearing and raising children?

Islam didnt made fix age but conditions which differ between one Girl and another and sexual life begins when they are ready to do so and not before, Aisha Married at age 06 but consumed marriage at nine due to Aisha sayings!

today the problem of many countires even islamic ones that they made the age too high which led to such problems that I mentioned above, beside today we have a lot of things that differ then old times and that we should finish schools and universities etc..... and Islam as Mercy from God gave us a lot of rules to follow which Humans can change due to needs and differences of times as God in ALL KNOWER and MOST WISE!

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Love, are you insisting that those who are not living where you are cannot value marriage at all? For on the contrary, that remark can be found rather offensive. Seeing as some of us are indeed married, and happily so. Not to mention, is there any one of us here...yourself included who has not commited some form of sin? Let us try not to judge one another please, okay?

First I dont Judge anyone and i saying facts that we can say SAD ones, for sure there is good christians and they live good and respectable life but I were talking that what I mentioned is the case of the Majority of western countries and Atheists are the huge majority in western communites.

In Muslim communities we have all kind of problems and SINS also but we have less rates of such soical problems!

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This is another generalization that can come off as offensive. For no one person can speak for everyone. Save God, Himself. For should my little girl had I one, were to engage in sexual activity and not abstain from it, I would be most disappointed. For God does want us to present ourselves holy, clean, and pure to Him. The only time any of us should engage in such intimacy is with our spouses. Marriage too is no delicate matter as I have tried also to state above in this response.

Again I didnt mean this to everyone, I know christians who are almost Muslims, and know christians who are very stricted more then even required by God, but again this is the case of the majority in western countries!

You can go even to Christian web sites were you can find forums for dating and singles etc..... but does those represent real christians!?

Answer: NO

But I blame christinaity to those SAD results becuase christianity failed to CONTAIN such EVIL and each day west moraly go down and not higher and they think this is Civlization, and those same people call Muslims and even Christians who follow the book as un civilized and not modern etc....
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Marriage is no laughing matter, no joke, but a lifelong commitment. Most importantly a PROMISE to GOD. It is not merely a bind formed between man and woman, for anyone to tell me or anyone else basically that we are strange people...is offensive, seeing as stating that we all....or generalizing that basically most if not, everyone who is not like you must see things a certain way really comes off as wrong. Especially seeing as you do not know me. Nor do you necessarily know the hearts of everyone here.

Again I were not pointing on someone specific I were talking that this is Majority of western communites situation and I call it Problem!

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I am sorry if this comes off as rude, but I will not lie to you, I was highly offended just reading this.

You shouldnt becuase this is what is really happening in real life and again I repeat this is the case of majority people in non Muslim communities!

Peace

 

[Sanitarium]

Islam didnt made fix age but conditions which differ between one Girl and another and sexual life begins when they are ready to do so and not before, Aisha Married at age 06 but consumed marriage at nine due to Aisha sayings!

And I've asked you to provide evidence that Islam requires the girl to be physically ready before she can get married.

You seem to be continually referring to earlier ages of marriage (partners of comparable age) INSTEAD of dealing with the topic of the thread - which is OLDER MEN marrying and having sex with pre-pubescent females. Why is this so hard to address?

If, as you say, Islam 'fixes' the (alleged) problems with society, WHY does that mean old men have to marry little girls? Why can't you wait until the girls grow up a bit? Why can't these older men marry women that are closer to their own age? That's where your argument falls flat on its face.

but I were talking that what I mentioned is the case of the Majority of western countries and Atheists are the huge majority in western communites.

No you were making a mass generalization about what you have been taught Western societies are like. In reality you are way off base. Also, Atheists are NOT the majority in western societies.

In Muslim communities we have all kind of problems and SINS also but we have less rates of such soical problems!

No you have less publicity of such social problems, because they are against Islam and you face harsh penalties, these things are done behind closed doors.

You can go even to Christian web sites were you can find forums for dating and singles etc..... but does those represent real christians!?

Excuse me? AFAIK, dating is allowed in Christianity.

You really need to stop making mass generalisations but ESPECIALLY to people who actually live in the communities you are generalising about, because (no offense) you show your ignorance.

 

[Gabe]

In Muslim communities we have all kind of problems and SINS also but we have less rates of such soical problems!

No, in Islamic communities many of the things the "West" consider as crimes (eg. Pedophilia) are legal or ignored as social and religious norms. There is a big difference between this and what you are claiming.

All through this entire thread; you have been claiming that Pedophilic marriages are okay because they eliminate extra-marital fornication. This is truly disgusting and your inaccurate mass generalisations of Christians on a Christian forum is not appreciated.