Aisha - Muhammad's child bride

[Love25]

In Muslim communities we have all kind of problems and SINS also but we have less rates of such soical problems!

No, in Islamic communities many of the things the "West" consider as crimes (eg. Pedophilia) are legal or ignored as social and religious norms. There is a big difference between this and what you are claiming.

All through this entire thread; you have been claiming that Pedophilic marriages are okay because they eliminate extra-marital fornication. This is truly disgusting and your inaccurate mass generalisations of Christians on a Christian forum is not appreciated.

I the begining I made Note for Christians and Jews didnt you read them!?

Intresting that you as christian are also vcitim of satan trap who traped all the west, you talk about Satanic standards which have nothing to do with God's rules and which serve only Satan in making people fall into fornication and adultry etc.....

And actualy by agreeing with this athiests satanic thoughts you Insult your own God!

Peace

 

[Gabe]

I the begining I made Note for Christians and Jews didnt you read them!?

You mean this?

...and IF christians and Jews reject prophet Mohamed 's (pbuh) message depending on such thing then they should Reject all Propehts and Messanger of God mentioned in their holy books, I just mentioned this so that we can keep this subject between Me as Muslim and you as Athiest and Christians and Jews can only read what we write to each other!

Yes I read it and it is wrong. As Christians we follow the example (or sunnah) of Jesus Christ and not the Old Testament Prophets who were sinners just as we are sinners. Show me where Christ ever molested a child and I'll revert back to Islam.

Intresting that you as christian are also vcitim of satan trap who traped all the west, you talk about Satanic standards which have nothing to do with God's rules and which serve only Satan in making people fall into fornication and adultry etc.....

LOL.

And actualy by agreeing with this athiests satanic thoughts you Insult your own God!

Wow.

 

[Sanitarium]

And actualy by agreeing with this athiests satanic thoughts you Insult your own God!

Wow.

My ears are burning! (someone's talking about me).

Would now be the time to let you know that I don't believe in Satan (nor does any Atheist, Love25?

 

[LostSoul]

Today the problem of many countires even islamic ones that they made the age too high which led to such problems that I mentioned above.

Age too high? Again I am inclined to disagree. The minds of children are not as developed as those of adults. Let alone their bodies. To have them engaging in any intimate action be it married or unmarried is wrong. A six year old is no more built to carry a child than a nine year old as I have stated before. Nor would a female of either age be maturely and fully mentally or emotionally ready for motherhood seeing as that girl would still be a child herself.

In Muslim communities we have all kind of problems and SINS also but we have less rates of such soical problems!

This makes your beliefs better than my own or those of any other Christian I take it? I am sorry but no man or woman is better than the next, so I am going to have a hard time agreeing with this also. For it is written in scripture that we are not to judge, lest we be judged. Then....not all will agree with the teachings written in the Bible, so I could be wasting words here. But sin is sin, and I thought it was this same sort of attitude that a number of Muslims, Atheists, and the like strongly dislike in a number of Christians. So why then mimic a behavior that is one that is so strongly discouraged? I know none of us are perfect, but it really does and continues to irk me how any one person can say....I do less or have less sin in my life than you. God alone knows the heart. Not man.

You can go even to Christian web sites were you can find forums for dating and singles etc..... but does those represent real christians!?

Answer: NO

On the contrary in scripture again it is written that should one find himself/herself drawn by temptation that one SHOULD marry. In today's world there is likely no better way to find one's life mate or spouse than to date. In older times I believe it was called courting.

But I blame christinaity to those SAD results becuase christianity failed to CONTAIN such EVIL and each day west moraly go down and not higher and they think this is Civlization, and those same people call Muslims and even Christians who follow the book as un civilized and not modern etc....

Love, I have seen you get angry when Christian members imply similar or other things in terms of your beliefs. So why then all these attacks on Christianity on a Christian Forum? In truth it is not any one religion to blame...but mankind itself. Seeing as it was man who first sinned and chose to disobey God. This constant pointing the finger at people of a certain faith is really quite pointless and in short, just hurtful.

 

[Love25]

I the begining I made Note for Christians and Jews didnt you read them!?

You mean this?

...and IF christians and Jews reject prophet Mohamed 's (pbuh) message depending on such thing then they should Reject all Propehts and Messanger of God mentioned in their holy books, I just mentioned this so that we can keep this subject between Me as Muslim and you as Athiest and Christians and Jews can only read what we write to each other!

Yes I read it and it is wrong. As Christians we follow the example (or sunnah) of Jesus Christ and not the Old Testament Prophets who were sinners just as we are sinners. Show me where Christ ever molested a child and I'll revert back to Islam.

[quote:1wge7vd7]Intresting that you as christian are also vcitim of satan trap who traped all the west, you talk about Satanic standards which have nothing to do with God's rules and which serve only Satan in making people fall into fornication and adultry etc.....

LOL.

And actualy by agreeing with this athiests satanic thoughts you Insult your own God!

Wow.[/quote:1wge7vd7]

I asked in the begining not to enter in this conversation but you seem couldnt stop of entering the discusion, so you mentioned three Points:

1- You try to avoide Old testment which is suposed to be God's words, anyway I dont have any problem in that but due to what you say God in Old testment choose SINNERS to be prophets which make me wonder why you then Reject Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) as if we compare those SINNER prophets that you accept them with those LIES and False claims invented to Prophet Mohamed (pbuh), Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) is better then them and then you dont have base or reason to reject his message!!!

2- So OT is abrogated by NT right!?

3- What is the age of Virgin mary when she born Jesus (pbuh) due to christian sources!?

it is between 11 to 14 which means she were pregnant from 10 to 13 years Old, so as you see your OWN GOD didnt have any problem to choose little girl to Have child!!!!

Forget OT and NT you have something much stronger due to what you all keep saying and that you have Holy spirit that talks to you and guide you, right!?

So tell me why Christians till revent times married at young age and if you want me to give you NON Muslim sources to those Facts tell me and beleive me it is easy to google them!!!

May Allah (swt) guide you!

Peace

 

[LostSoul]

I asked in the begining not to enter in this conversation but you seem couldnt stop of entering the discusion.

Love, this is an open forum. Please keep that in mind when posting here at CF. To ask any one member not to participate is demeaning. Please try to treat the members here with the same curteousy that you would like to be treated.

In terms of the age...an 11 to 13 year old girl's body is much more developed than that of a six to nine year old. Not to say in the least that I do not feel that such an age is still too young to truly be ready to have a child. For in truth....it is. As I have said before and will again....girls of that age lack the maturity on an emotional and mental level to deal with a crying baby.

 

[Gabe]

I asked in the begining not to enter in this conversation but you seem couldnt stop of entering the discusion, so you mentioned three Points:

1- You try to avoide Old testment

No, I did not try to avoid anything.

Old Covenant laws = Ancient Israelites
New Covenant laws = Christians

which is suposed to be God's words,

Yes it is.

anyway I dont have any problem in that but due to what you say God in Old testment choose SINNERS to be prophets which make me wonder why you then Reject Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) as if we compare those SINNER prophets that you accept them with those LIES and False claims invented to Prophet Mohamed (pbuh), Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) is better then them and then you dont have base or reason to reject his message!!!

I reject Mohammad because according to Islam this vile man's actions are the pinnacle of human morality and an example to be followed forever; his commands clearly contradict (not only his own words but) Christ's, someone who (unlike Mohammad) is not a misogynist, narcissist, rapist, paedophile, torturer, assassin, looter, terrorist, mass murderer, lunatic or slave trader. Jesus Christ is the sinless example we are to follow now and forever. We have no need for Mohammad and his barbaric teachings and there is no valid theological link between the Quran and the Holy Bible; they do not fit because the Quran is worthless.

Also, there are no "LIES and False claims" invented by some "mischevoius" Jew or anyone else to discredit Mohammad, he is exposed as the filth he was through your own Islamic scripture.

2- So OT is abrogated by NT right!?

Yup

3- What is the age of Virgin mary when she born Jesus (pbuh) due to christian sources!?

Her age (unlike Aisha's) is not recorded in Christian Scripture.

it is between 11 to 14 which means she were pregnant from 10 to 13 years Old,

Show me in Christian Scripture were it confirms her age, not just hearsay and futile guesswork.

so as you see your OWN GOD didnt have any problem to choose little girl to Have child!!!!

Assuming you can prove the age of Mary (which you will not) the simple fact remains that Virgin Mary (as her name suggests) was a virgin.

No sex = No peadophilia and no blowing into her vagina.

Forget OT and NT you have something much stronger due to what you all keep saying and that you have Holy spirit that talks to you and guide you, right!?

What does this have to do with the fact your "Prophet" was a filthy paedophile and Allah allows old men to marry pre-pubescent children?

So tell me why Christians till revent times married at young age and if you want me to give you NON Muslim sources to those Facts tell me and beleive me it is easy to google them!!!

I'm not responsible for their sins, and there is a difference between marrying young and marrying pre-pubescent children.

 

[Love25]

No, I did not try to avoid anything.

Old Covenant laws = Ancient Israelites
New Covenant laws = Christians

You want to say OT made by another God!?

Or you want to say that God have two different religions!?

------------------------

which is suposed to be God's words,

Yes it is.

If OT are God's words then why you have problem with it!?

--------------------------

I reject Mohammad because according to Islam this vile man's actions are the pinnacle of human morality and an example to be followed forever; his commands clearly contradict (not only his own words but) Christ's, someone who (unlike Mohammad) is not a misogynist, narcissist, rapist, paedophile, torturer, assassin, looter, terrorist, mass murderer, lunatic or slave trader. Jesus Christ is the sinless example we are to follow now and forever. We have no need for Mohammad and his barbaric teachings and there is no valid theological link between the Quran and the Holy Bible; they do not fit because the Quran is worthless.

Also, there are no "LIES and False claims" invented by some "mischevoius" Jew or anyone else to discredit Mohammad, he is exposed as the filth he was through your own Islamic scripture.

Thanks for this long general emotional un based speech, but this doesnt answer my simple question about why you accept Prophets of God described by the one who wrote the OT worse then the picture you draw above about prophet Mohamed (pbuh), while you have problem with all the above false claims written above!?

-------------------------------

2- So OT is abrogated by NT right!?

Yup

said by who!?

By the way this declaration Sanitarium would be very happy to read!

Your Problem that OT is very embaracing that you need to delete it, but if NT totaly abrogate OT why you have problem if God once again Abrogate NT and return to OT laws!?

By the way Jesus (pbuh) in the bible said that who dont follow the commandments will be LEAST IN KINGDOM OF HEAVEN and he also said he came to FULFILL religion and not CHANGE IT as you desire!!

--------------------------------

Her age (unlike Aisha's) is not recorded in Christian Scripture.]

Show me in Christian Scripture were it confirms her age, not just hearsay and futile guesswork.

Intresting that you dont know age of Vrigin Mary (pbuh) anyway you dont know a lot of things about her History even History of Jesus (pbuh) himself!

But you see those are Christian sources from christian sources!!!

--------------------------------

you can prove the age of Mary (which you will not) the simple fact remains that Virgin Mary (as her name suggestAssuming s) was a virgin.

Dear the Problem in the age of Vrigin mary dont stop on that only but as you christians claim that she were married to Joseph who were 90 years old widowed man, and I will leave conclusions for you!

-----------------------------------

What does this have to do with the fact your "Prophet" was a filthy paedophile and Allah allows old men to marry pre-pubescent children?

Now we begin Insutls as I see, and I can understand why as it is hard to answer what I say!

Now you show your LOVE that you are filled with, right!?

May Allah (swt) forgive you!

-----------------------------------

I'm not responsible for their sins, and there is a difference between marrying young and marrying pre-pubescent children.

So all christians before were SINNERS but did you forget that they are guided by Holy spirit, and those same people whom you call SINNERS are the source of your Faith and Bible!!!

In this Post you insulted Propeht Mohamed (pbuh) in low level way and you also Insulted all Christians but this is your own problem with them, but I think after you calm down you should Apologize for that, other wise dont reply to my posts if you are not able to answer them in decent way!

And still I say:

Peace

 

[LostSoul]

Dont reply to my posts if you are not able to answer them in decent way!

And still I say:

Peace

Love,

I repeat myself....this is an open forum. Topics here are open to everyone to read and respond to that are members of Christian Forums.


Everyone....

Please when speaking of this topic let us try to do it without GENERALIZING or CRITICIZING each other based on one another's cultures, beliefs, etc. The topic here is the child bride and age issues in terms of cultural and religious differences. Can we not discuss this without insulting each other, please? This thread is really getting out of hand and it should not have to be this way.

May God Bless You

Danielle

 

[Gabe]

You want to say OT made by another God!?

Or you want to say that God have two different religions!?

No, two Covenants; the Old and the New.

If OT are God's words then why you have problem with it!?

I don't.

Thanks for this long general emotional un based speech, but this doesnt answer my simple question about why you accept Prophets of God described by the one who wrote the OT worse then the picture you draw above about prophet Mohamed (pbuh), while you have problem with all the above false claims written above!?

They're not false claims, they're Islamic truths.

[quote:2e8asert]2- So OT is abrogated by NT right!?

Yup

said by who!?

By the way this declaration Sanitarium would be very happy to read! [/quote:2e8asert]

Why? The Bible has nothing to do with the Quran.

Your Problem that OT is very embaracing that you need to delete it, but if NT totaly abrogate OT why you have problem if God once again Abrogate NT and return to OT laws!?

The Old Testament has not been deleted (its still in the Holy Bible, and is mainly historical instructions to the ancient Isralites) and the problem I have with returning to Old Covenant laws is the fact that God no longer requires it of us.

By the way Jesus (pbuh) in the bible said that who dont follow the commandments will be LEAST IN KINGDOM OF HEAVEN and he also said he came to FULFILL religion and not CHANGE IT as you desire!!

You should read up on Christian theology, He was not referring to the penalties for transgressing the laws found in Leviticus etc, this much is obvious due to Him preventing a women from being stoned to death for Adultery.

And He did "FULFILL religion", just not in a way Muslims will accept.

Intresting that you dont know age of Vrigin Mary (pbuh) anyway you dont know a lot of things about her History even History of Jesus (pbuh) himself!

No, what's interesting is that no one knows what Mary's age was.

But you see those are Christian sources from christian sources!!!

Hearsay and futile guesswork.

Dear the Problem in the age of Vrigin mary dont stop on that only but as you christians claim that she were married to Joseph who were 90 years old widowed man, and I will leave conclusions for you!

Love, you have obviously never heard of Mary's perpetual virginity.

Now we begin Insutls as I see, and I can understand why as it is hard to answer what I say!

No insults, just truth.

Now you show your LOVE that you are filled with, right!?

I try, but I'm just a lowly sinner like yourself.

May Allah (swt) forgive you!

And may God forgive you for being led astray by Mohammad.

So all christians before were SINNERS but did you forget that they are guided by Holy spirit, and those same people whom you call SINNERS are the source of your Faith and Bible!!!

Even St Paul was a sinner.

In this Post you insulted Propeht Mohamed (pbuh) in low level way and you also Insulted all Christians but this is your own problem with them, but I think after you calm down you should Apologize for that, other wise dont reply to my posts if you are not able to answer them in decent way!

Once again; no insults, just truth.

And still I say:

Peace

and peace to you.

 

[Sanitarium]

Can we not discuss this without insulting each other, please?

My apologies if you are referring to something specific, but the problem is with debating Muslims, that anything brought up that casts Islam in a bad light (no matter how factual it is) is perceived as an 'insult'. I think we all remember the cartoon riots.

 

[Gabe]

I would also like to add to what Sani has wrote; this thread is about Islam and more specifically Aisha - Muhammad's child bride. My faith has no bearing on the OP whatsoever and Love25 is simply using this as a convenient diversion. Its a common strawman used to defend or suppress criticism aimed towards the Islamic faith and its ridiculous.

 

[LostSoul]

Sani & Gabriel,

Believe me I understand, for a number of Love's comments were found more than slightly offensive to me in terms of Christianity alone. Not to mention Western Society, seeing as well...technically I am one of the terrible Westerners to which he/she is refering. As well as one that some may call a Christian, though I am not into religious labels myself.

I am just asking that when we speak of things like Muhammad that we try not to come out as all out rude. No doubt, I do not think much of this figure who is supposed to be a figure head in terms of the Islamic faith, but I do believe coming out and calling the man names is not going to help the matter. For is not part of ministry...not meaning to push on you Sani, for I am aware you are an atheist, in terms of Christian beliefs...to reach out in love?

No doubt the truth should be shown and something that is spoken. Just perhaps we can do it without demeaning one another?

Again not to say that Love has not said a thing or two that has come off as offensive. Or that I may not have done so. That is why i am asking we all try better to get along.

May God Bless You

Danielle

 

[Sanitarium]

Thanks LostLamb, just because I'm an Atheist does not mean I do not hold myself to the norms of civility

I am just asking that when we speak of things like Muhammad that we try not to come out as all out rude. No doubt, I do not think much of this figure who is supposed to be a figure head in terms of the Islamic faith, but I do believe coming out and calling the man names is not going to help the matter.

Yes no problem. I am not aware that I have called Muhammad a 'name' but if I have done so then I apologise.

 

[Gabe]

No doubt the truth should be shown and something that is spoken. Just perhaps we can do it without demeaning one another?

I upset Love25 by referring to Mohammad as "a filthy Paedophile". For the sake of peace, In the future I will avoid this truth and simply refer to him as "a Paedophile". Maybe Love25 can return the favour and stop insulting Christians and Atheists.

 

[StephanieKing]

As requested I have opened this topic for discussion. Is the marriage of Muhammad to a six year old child an example that can be followed by Muslims or was it a special exemption for Muhammad? Many Muslims will state either it was for Muhammad only (ie. here "it was only for the prophet (peace be upon him)") or they go to great lengths to attempt to show that Aisha was actually older.

Based on the evidence, Aisha was 6 years old when Muhamad married her and 9 years old when the marriage was consummated.
ahadith concerning Aisha's age
Aisha was pre-pubescent when Muhammad consummated the marriage

Furthermore, the evidence shows that this is Sunnah and Muslims may also marry and have sex with pre-pubescent girls, just as Muhammad did, as we find that Allah, in the Quran, sanctions this behaviour also.
Paedophilia in the Quran

Of course I'm not saying this is fard (obligatory) but any Muslim man who has the inclination and the money (for the dowry) can follow Muhammad's example and it is sanctioned by Allah.

In Islam they cant marry until the girl is old enough to have kids, meaning she must have her menstrual cycle!!! When Muhamed PBUH was here it was a different time, My grandmother got married at 12 She isn't muslim... But they only way to marry in Islam is when you are ready mentally and physically!!!
Anyone who says in Islam you can marry a 6 year old is misinformed sorry!!! :gah