All Israel

[donadams]

Romans 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Does this mean individual jews cannot be lost?
Thks

 

[LeviR]

Romans 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Does this mean individual jews cannot be lost?
Thks

The nation of Israel shall be saved. It is the kingdom of God on earth when the remnant of Israel who have not bowed the knee to Baal are victorious over the enemy, both within and without.

 

[donadams]

The nation of Israel shall be saved. It is the kingdom of God on earth when the remnant of Israel who have not bowed the knee to Baal are victorious over the enemy, both within and without.

The new Israel is the The new covenant church the kingdom of God on earth, holy mother church gal 4:26 the new Jerusalem

Thks

 

[Whatever]

Isaiah 10:22 For though your people, O Israel, be as the sand of the sea, A remnant of them will return; The destruction decreed shall overflow with righteousness.

Paul quoting Isaiah:

Rom 9:27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel: "THOUGH THE NUMBER OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL BE AS THE SAND OF THE SEA, THE REMNANT WILL BE SAVED.

Rom 11:5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

So according to Paul, God only intended to save a remnant of Israel, and those were elected according to grace.
All the elect remnant (all Israel) will be saved.

 

[Consecrated Life]

The new Israel is the The new covenant church the kingdom of God on earth, holy mother church gal 4:26 the new Jerusalem

Thks

No, The Jews and the Jews alone have a Come To Jesus day scheduled just for them that will happen in the future.
And every Jew that is alive that day He appears will have to reckon with the fact that they crucified their King .
They will be saved , but it will be a most bittersweet salvation.
Paul is referring to the passage in Zacheriah .


Zec 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

 

[donadams]

No, The Jews and the Jews alone have a Come To Jesus day scheduled just for them that will happen in the future.
And every Jew that is alive that day He appears will have to reckon with the fact that they crucified their King .
They will be saved , but it will be a most bittersweet salvation.
Paul is referring to the passage in Zacheriah .


Zec 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

So are you saying a jew cannot be lost?

Or only jews alive at the second coming cant be lost?

 

[LeviR]

So are you saying a jew cannot be lost?

Or only jews alive at the second coming cant be lost?

The Bible makes it very clear. When Jesus returns, he doesn’t return to the North Pole or China, he returns to Jerusalem. At that time there will be a remnant of Israel who have not worshipped a fake God or followed false teaching.
They are the ones who will restore the kingdom of God with the help of Jesus, the resurrected saints and angels.
Jerusalem will be the capital of the world.
All Israel shall be saved.
And the nations who fail to recognize this will perish.

 

[Consecrated Life]

So are you saying a jew cannot be lost?

Or only jews alive at the second coming cant be lost?

My interpretation of the passage which describes Jesus confronting those Jews who are alive at His return is that ALL those who accept Him as Christ and Savior when they see Him will constitute what God considers to be "ALL Israel" in that day .
That there may still be Jews who would be stiffnecked enough to reject the retuning Lord in all His Glory is possible I suppose , but then they would be lost & not be considered to be part of "All Israel" at that point.
How do you interpret the passage ?

Zec 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

 

[donadams]

The Bible makes it very clear. When Jesus returns, he doesn’t return to the North Pole or China, he returns to Jerusalem. At that time there will be a remnant of Israel who have not worshipped a fake God or followed false teaching.
They are the ones who will restore the kingdom of God with the help of Jesus, the resurrected saints and angels.
Jerusalem will be the capital of the world.
All Israel shall be saved.
And the nations who fail to recognize this will perish.

The kingdom came 2000 yesrs ago

Why are those who reject and a nation who rejected and crucified Christ be accepted by christ?

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

 

[LeviR]

The kingdom came 2000 yesrs ago

Why are those who reject and a nation who rejected and crucified Christ be accepted by christ?

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

The promise was fulfilled 2000 years ago when the seed of the promise was killed and raised from the dead.
All those with like faith as Abraham are included in the promise.
Those believers at Christ’s first coming are spoken as those of the kingdom.
But the kingdom does not actually come until the children of promise are raised from the dead to come with him.
John’s vision is of those resurrected ones who will judge God’s people(the Jews) along with Jesus until the kingdom of God be established on earth.

 

[Whatever]

The Jews and the Jews alone have a Come To Jesus day scheduled just for them that will happen in the future.

What I am confused about is that after 2,000 years, what makes a person a "Jew" today?
Is it blood line or genetics? And how far back does it have to go? Just to some Jew living in Jesus day? All the way back to Abraham?

In the last 2,000 years a lot of Gentiles have converted to the Jewish faith. They have no "Jewish" blood in them. Besides, that "Jewish faith", is not the OT Jewish faith, but some Christless traditions that reject Jesus and are looking for somebody else to be their Messiah.

In John 8: 33-41 Jesus is talking to some legitimate descendants of Abraham:
John 8:37 "I know that you are Abraham's descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have seen with your father." 39 They answered and said to Him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham. . . .
John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do.

So, simply being descended from Abraham does not make a person a Jew. They can be a son of Satan.

Rom_9:8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God . . .

I would say that since the first century and the destruction of the Temple and bringing in the New Covenant, there are no more legitimate Jews. There are those calling themselves Jews but they are a synagogue of Satan.

Rev_2:9 "I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

Rev_3:9 Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie—indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.
Jesus was saying the above to the church in Philadelphia.

 

[Consecrated Life]

What I am confused about is that after 2,000 years, what makes a person a "Jew" today?
Is it blood line or genetics? And how far back does it have to go? Just to some Jew living in Jesus day? All the way back to Abraham?

In the last 2,000 years a lot of Gentiles have converted to the Jewish faith. They have no "Jewish" blood in them. Besides, that "Jewish faith", is not the OT Jewish faith, but some Christless traditions that reject Jesus and are looking for somebody else to be their Messiah.

Good questions.
All we can be sure of is that the people the scripture indicates are confronted by Jesus at His return are " inhabitants of Jerusalem" .
My best guess is that when the anti-christ is accepted as Messiah and what seems to be a perfect peace is established , and a fabulous new Temple is built in Jerusalem all those who consider themselves Jews will be part of a mass immigration wave to return to the Land given to them by God.

 

[Whatever]

All we can be sure of is that the people the scripture indicates are confronted by Jesus at His return are " inhabitants of Jerusalem" .

The way things are going right now with Iran and their nuclear bomb, it is possible that when Jesus returns the only inhabitants of Jerusalem might be Muslims.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

Does this mean individual jews cannot be lost?

According to the Bible....all men are descendants of Adam and Eve....while the "Jews" have always held themselves above God's Law....it in no way means they are immune to God's Judgement......and the "Jews" like so many others are going to reject the truth.....because their "teachers" have led them down the wrong path......

Why the Book of Romans says what it says......is a different matter

 

[donadams]

According to the Bible....all men are descendants of Adam and Eve....while the "Jews" have always held themselves above God's Law....it in no way means they are immune to God's Judgement......and the "Jews" like so many others are going to reject the truth.....because their "teachers" have led them down the wrong path......

Why the Book of Romans says what it says......is a different matter

Thanks i was wondering cos of the rich man and Lazarus
It describes the rich man a son of abraham who is lost.

 

[Consecrated Life]

The way things are going right now with Iran and their nuclear bomb, it is possible that when Jesus returns the only inhabitants of Jerusalem might be Muslims.

You don't believe That God can see His Word fulfilled ?

Zec 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstbor

 

[donadams]

You don't believe That God can see His Word fulfilled ?

Zec 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstbor

Sounds like baptism

Zechariah 13:1
In that day there shall be a fountainopened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

Thks

 

[Consecrated Life]

Sounds like baptism

Zechariah 13:1
In that day there shall be a fountainopened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

Thks

Yes the Lord Himself foretold that He will be the living water in that day.

John 7:37
In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

 

[Vinny37]

Romans 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Does this mean individual jews cannot be lost?
Thks

Firstly I’d take the term Jew somewhat wider than mere ethnicity. Besides being a subsection of ethnic Israel (Judah, kingdom of), I’d pick up the NT questioning of entitlement to the narrower or broader (ie Jew or Israel) term: eg Rv.2:9. I locate 4 levels to the term Israel (viz Jacob the man; his sons’ confederation (ethnic Israel); Jesus messiah; the church (spiritual Israel)).

On Rm.11:26, it cannot mean every ethnic-Jew (Mt.8:10-2). Noting the term’s flexibility (Rm.9:6), N T Wright suggested that here spiritual Israel was meant. IMO Paul, having his own example of salvation into messiah, indicated that that was the way in which all from his ethnic people who were open to messiah, would be saved—and so in this way….

IMO Christian salvation is Level 3 (L3)—salus tantum intra ecclesia—and heaven to come is Level 4 (L4). I hold that not all who fail to gain L3, lose L4, and that all who gain L3, gain L4. So even if the Jewish race as such is blinded from messiah (as gentile races were blinded from Sinai), L4 salvation is not and never has been denied to any who desire God, an eventual destination/dimension only possible by the cross. IMO some people, whether born a gentiles or Israelites, lack that desire for God, and will be ultimately relegated to a bearable hell.

 

[brightfame52]

donadams

It describes the rich man a son of abraham who is lost.

Really ? Can you point that scripture out ? I dont recall it.