All Israel

[donadams]

Romans 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Does this mean individual jews cannot be lost?
Thks

 

[Whatever]

You don't believe That God can see His Word fulfilled ?

Of course I believe that God can completely fulfill His Word.
But fulfilling His Word and
Fulfilling your interpretation of it
are two different things.

 

[Whatever]

Really ? Can you point that scripture out ? I dont recall it.

It doesn't actually say the rich man was a son of Abraham, but in:
Luke 16:24 "Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.'

The rich man called "Father Abraham." This doesn't have to mean that he was a descendant of Abraham, just that as a person living in Israel at that time anybody would have called Abraham father. Kind of like how we call George Washington the father of our country.

This is an example of somebody taking one small text and jumping to a unnecessary conclusion.

 

[donadams]

donadams



Really ? Can you point that scripture out ? I dont recall it.

Starts in Lk 16:20

 

[Consecrated Life]

Of course I believe that God can completely fulfill His Word.
But fulfilling His Word and
Fulfilling your interpretation of it
are two different things.

I think your interpretation of Iran's nukes causing no more Jews for God to save has drifted much further into left field from God's Word in the verse I quoted then anything I have said .
I don't get where you see Iran's nukes causing no more Jews from Zechariah 12:10 ?

The way things are going right now with Iran and their nuclear bomb, it is possible that when Jesus returns the only inhabitants of Jerusalem might be Muslims.

Zec 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn

 

[RandyK]

Romans 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Does this mean individual jews cannot be lost?
Thks

Certainly not. I think this is one of the most misunderstood passages with respect to the Premil/Amil depate. Premils claim that Israel will get "saved" as a nation in the Millennium. But does this mean that every individual Israeli citizen will get saved in the evangelical sense?

Of course not! No more so than any former Christian nation had every one of its citizens converted to Christ and reborn as a true believer.

Nor does it mean that every time a Christian nation has been politically saved from an enemy in the past that every Christian in the nation was politically saved, didn't die, or was born again?

Of course not! When a nation becomes a Christian nation it means that the vast majority of the nation adopts the Christian religion as its national religion. It certainly does not mean that every citizen becomes a Christian, either nominally or spiritually.

And we must distinguish between a nation becoming a Christian nation and a Christian nation being saved from an enemy in a war. I think the passage Paul speaks of conflates conversion to Christianity and deliverance in war.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Certainly not. I think this is one of the most misunderstood passages with respect to the Premil/Amil depate. Premils claim that Israel will get "saved" as a nation in the Millennium. But does this mean that every individual Israeli citizen will get saved in the evangelical sense?

Of course not! No more so than any former Christian nation had every one of its citizens converted to Christ and reborn as a true believer.

Nor does it mean that every time a Christian nation has been politically saved from an enemy in the past that every Christian in the nation was politically saved, didn't die, or was born again?

Of course not! When a nation becomes a Christian nation it means that the vast majority of the nation adopts the Christian religion as its national religion. It certainly does not mean that every citizen becomes a Christian, either nominally or spiritually.

And we must distinguish between a nation becoming a Christian nation and a Christian nation being saved from an enemy in a war. I think the passage Paul speaks of conflates conversion to Christianity and deliverance in war.

There is only one nation in history founded on Christian Principles, but that never made it a "Christian Nation".
Quite the opposite.
Since the day it was founded the populace has not stopped in it's effort of removing every vestige of it's Christian founding

 

[donadams]

There is only one nation in history founded on Christian Principles, but that never made it a "Christian Nation".
Quite the opposite.
Since the day it was founded the populace has not stopped in it's effort of removing every vestige of it's Christian founding

What nation are you referring too?

 

[Consecrated Life]

What nation are you referring too?

Do you more than one nation whose founding documents were written whilst seeking guidance thru group Christian prayer ?

 

[RandyK]

There is only one nation in history founded on Christian Principles, but that never made it a "Christian Nation".
Quite the opposite.
Since the day it was founded the populace has not stopped in it's effort of removing every vestige of it's Christian founding

Not at all true. I hear this all the time, and it utterly amazes me, because ALL of the history books mention that there were nations that called themselves "Christian people," who founded their societies on Christian morals. Israel was founded by the same God who revealed Himself to us as Jesus Christ.

So in a sense, Israel was a pre-Christian nation. One day I believe it will indeed "make it." Just my opinion, based on the promises God made to Abraham--promises that have never been revoked, promises that I believe can never fail.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Not at all true. I hear this all the time, and it utterly amazes me, because ALL of the history books mention that there were nations that called themselves "Christian people," who founded their societies on Christian morals. Israel was founded by the same God who revealed Himself to us as Jesus Christ.

So in a sense, Israel was a pre-Christian nation. One day I believe it will indeed "make it." Just my opinion, based on the promises God made to Abraham--promises that have never been revoked, promises that I believe can never fail.

Very true!
Israel was not founded by men .
It was founded by God Himself who had to bring a stiffnecked people into the land as they resisted .
From the foot of Mt. Sini where God had to kill over 4000 of them in one day for their resistance to His will.
To the point that God made an entire generation of them walk the wilderness for 40 years until the carcasses of that generation fell dead in desert.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Num 14:29-30
Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward, which have murmured against me,
Doubtless ye shall not come into the land, concerning which I sware to make you dwell therein, save Caleb the son of Jephunneh, and Joshua the son of Nun.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Notice the Word of God that it is He alone who will by force , ie " WILL MAKE ..." a stubborn and stiffnecked people a nation

The very fact that you want to equate the nation God led by a hook in their nose to any other nations founding, killing off an entire generation of them in their resistance to Him, is proof that you cannot name more than one solitary nation in history whose founders did the opposite & sought God's guidance as they composed the founding documents of the nation.

 

[Who Me]

How are people saved?
By be.onging to a racial group, or by belonging to an organisation, or by faith in Jesus?

If one is saved by belonging to a racial group, we who are not part of that group are not saved, ditto belonging to an organisation regardless whether it's the rcc, jw or Mormons or methodist.

We actually are saved through faith, Jews, whites, Arabs, Africans etc etc.

All Israel will be saved, all who are chosen, who believe in Jesus.

 

[donadams]

Do you more than one nation whose founding documents were written whilst seeking guidance thru group Christian prayer ?

You the good ole USA!

It was founded by the freemasons on the principles of the demonic “french revolution”!

American and French Revolutions are the same revolution!

Eliminate or prevent a king & queen from reigning in the place of Jesus and Mary!

Same colors red white and blue
Same motto
Same goddess of liberty

Washington becoming a god same as baphomet the freemason god

Uncle sam is samiel the goat headed god

Washington is layed out in mason symbols

How many pagan gods are represented there, ghe capitol. Building has a pagan indian goddess on it

Enough! There were many Christian kingdoms with the king reigning by divine right and apostolic kingdoms

Blessed be Jesus Christ the king!

 

[RandyK]

Very true!
Israel was not founded by men .
It was founded by God Himself who had to bring a stiffnecked people into the land as they resisted .
From the foot of Mt. Sini where God had to kill over 4000 of them in one day for their resistance to His will.
To the point that God made an entire generation of them walk the wilderness for 40 years until the carcasses of that generation fell dead in desert.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Num 14:29-30
Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward, which have murmured against me,
Doubtless ye shall not come into the land, concerning which I sware to make you dwell therein, save Caleb the son of Jephunneh, and Joshua the son of Nun.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Notice the Word of God that it is He alone who will by force , ie " WILL MAKE ..." a stubborn and stiffnecked people a nation

The very fact that you want to equate the nation God led by a hook in their nose to any other nations founding, killing off an entire generation of them in their resistance to Him, is proof that you cannot name more than one solitary nation in history whose founders did the opposite & sought God's guidance as they composed the founding documents of the nation.

Who said I cannot name "Christian nations?" Israel exemplifies all nations founded on God's word. We all are "stiff-necked," and have citizens within our nations who oppose the will of God. Every nation is "threshed" until people are found who He can mold into His People.

The European nations have all been "Christian nations." They have all suffered Divine "correction." And all of them have a remnant of true believers within them, who remain "faithful."

I'm a Premillennialist who believes that Israel and the European nations will return to God and become a more genuinely Christian company of nations on earth, expanding their outreach into all the world. It will be, I think, a completion of the outreach we see today, which is being regularly hindered by the Antichrist spirit.

 

[RandyK]

How are people saved?
By be.onging to a racial group, or by belonging to an organisation, or by faith in Jesus?

If one is saved by belonging to a racial group, we who are not part of that group are not saved, ditto belonging to an organisation regardless whether it's the rcc, jw or Mormons or methodist.

We actually are saved through faith, Jews, whites, Arabs, Africans etc etc.

All Israel will be saved, all who are chosen, who believe in Jesus.

God created men of all races and nations. And so, He created men from all of those races and nations to be saved.

He did not just choose to save a single race or a few nations. Rather, He indicated His wish was to save people from all races and from all nations. So the fact nationalities and races are involved is necessary if indeed God is to prove He is saving people from all of them. Otherwise, there would be no effort to be fair to all, and no indication that God's justice applies equally to all of them.

In fact, when God promises things to people, He expresses concern for the families of those who serve Him. We would expect, then, that nations founded by godly men will demonstrate a tribal tendency to serve God, and they would, in turn, indicate they've been blessed by the God they serve.

It is silly to think Abraham, who served God, would be chosen by God to produce evil children only, while ungodly men founding other nations would produce more godly people. In fact, God promised He would find among many nations a People for Himself. And so, nationalities and races are a part of the equation in His plan of Salvation.

 

[Consecrated Life]

You the good ole USA!

It was founded by the freemasons on the principles of the demonic “french revolution”!

America's documents of founding were written on the basis of collective prayer by the founders to the Christian God , with Christian ministers assisting in beseeching help from the Lord God of the Bible.
If you can show where they prayed to any other God during the writing of the founding documents than the God of the Bible for help with the founding documents then do so , or hold your peace?


Article • The Constitutional Convention: A Day by Day Account for June 1787

June 28, 1787: Franklin's Proposal for Prayer​

Independence National Historical Park

Benjamin Franklin by Joseph Siffred Duplessis, 1778. The Metropolitan Museum of Art, The Friedsam Collection, Bequest of Michael Friedsam, 1931.

"We shall be divided by our little partial local interests; our projects will be confounded; and we ourselves shall become a reproach and by-word down to future ages...I therefore beg leave to move — that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the clergy of this city be requested to officiate in that service."

--Benjamin Franklin, in James Madison's Notes on the Federal Convention

 

[Consecrated Life]

Who said I cannot name "Christian nations?" Israel exemplifies all nations founded on God's word. We all are "stiff-necked," and have citizens within our nations who oppose the will of God. Every nation is "threshed" until people are found who He can mold into His People.

Show historical proof of any nation's founders other than America's beseeching God of the bible as they composed the founding then ?
Without historical proof all you have is your opinion.
Here I will show you how to do it :

Article • The Constitutional Convention: A Day by Day Account for June 1787

June 28, 1787: Franklin's Proposal for Prayer​

Independence National Historical Park

Benjamin Franklin by Joseph Siffred Duplessis, 1778. The Metropolitan Museum of Art, The Friedsam Collection, Bequest of Michael Friedsam, 1931.

"We shall be divided by our little partial local interests; our projects will be confounded; and we ourselves shall become a reproach and by-word down to future ages...I therefore beg leave to move — that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the clergy of this city be requested to officiate in that service."

--Benjamin Franklin, in James Madison's Notes on the Federal Convention

 

[donadams]

The constitution’s bill of rights violates the 1st commandment!

And second of the two great commandments!

Franklin and the founders were not Christians but deists and freemasons

 

[Consecrated Life]

The constitution’s bill of rights violates the 1st commandment!

And second of the two great commandments!

Franklin and the founders were not Christians but deists and freemasons

All that matters is that collective prayer to the Lord God of the Bible was agreed upon by our founders to help them write our founding.
That is the fact and you cannot deny that they all prayed to the God of the Bible led in prayer by Christian clergy in the
writing of our founding documents .
If you think you can provide Historical proof as I have done that they did not do so then go ahead ???
Otherwise all you have to give is your opinion.

Article • The Constitutional Convention: A Day by Day Account for June 1787

June 28, 1787: Franklin's Proposal for Prayer​

Independence National Historical Park

Benjamin Franklin by Joseph Siffred Duplessis, 1778. The Metropolitan Museum of Art, The Friedsam Collection, Bequest of Michael Friedsam, 1931.

"We shall be divided by our little partial local interests; our projects will be confounded; and we ourselves shall become a reproach and by-word down to future ages...I therefore beg leave to move — that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the clergy of this city be requested to officiate in that service."

--Benjamin Franklin, in James Madison's Notes on the Federal Convention

 

[RandyK]

Show historical proof of any nation's founders other than America's beseeching God of the bible as they composed the founding then ?
Without historical proof all you have is your opinion.
Here I will show you how to do it :

Article • The Constitutional Convention: A Day by Day Account for June 1787

June 28, 1787: Franklin's Proposal for Prayer​

Independence National Historical Park

Benjamin Franklin by Joseph Siffred Duplessis, 1778. The Metropolitan Museum of Art, The Friedsam Collection, Bequest of Michael Friedsam, 1931.

--Benjamin Franklin, in James Madison's Notes on the Federal Convention

Take History 101, History of Western Civilization. The Roman Empire tolerated Christianity under Constantine, and adopted Christianity as the official religion of the Empire by Theodosius. You do it by applying to attend a local community college or by attending a university. Seriously, you need to do this before challenging any notion of something called "Christendom." click

 

[donadams]

All that matters is that collective prayer to the Lord God of the Bible was agreed upon by our founders to help them write our founding.
That is the fact and you cannot deny that they all prayed to the God of the Bible led in prayer by Christian clergy in the
writing of our founding documents .
If you think you can provide Historical proof as I have done that they did not do so then go ahead ???
Otherwise all you have to give is your opinion.

Article • The Constitutional Convention: A Day by Day Account for June 1787

June 28, 1787: Franklin's Proposal for Prayer​

Independence National Historical Park

Benjamin Franklin by Joseph Siffred Duplessis, 1778. The Metropolitan Museum of Art, The Friedsam Collection, Bequest of Michael Friedsam, 1931.

--Benjamin Franklin, in James Madison's Notes on the Federal Convention

Prayer to a generic providence is one thing where to they ever mention Jesus Christ!

The Freemasons are manichean dualists!

God of spirit! (Good)
God of matter! (Bad carnal)

God of light!
God of darkness!

Checkerboard sqaure!
Yes purina is a freemason corporation

Religious indifference is their doctrine they accept “any” higher being!

Never Jesus Christ!

And Jn 14:6 is anathema to them!

America is pagan!

The founders got the whole system of separation of powers and checks & balances from the Iroquous pagan savage indians!

There goddess who descended from heaven (not) is on the done of the capital

The first commandment does not give man the freedom to “worship as we please”!

Thks