Growth All New Now

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netchaplain

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The infinite contrast between Israel (unbelieving Hebrews/Jews—NC) and the Church is that we are in the presence of the Father, and we are always there; that is the Christian ground: the Jews (same as above—NC) never were there. This is very little realized by Christians today. The work is accomplished once for all, and we are brought nigh by virtue of the work of the Cross; and if we are not there through that work, we never can get there. Our feelings may be varying from day to day, but or standing before the Father never changes in the Son.

If it is a question of being in the Father’s presence, I must abide where He is. In His presence sin is not measured by transgression, but by what the Father is—“in the light as He is in the light.” “Ye were darkness but now are ye light in the Lord.” God’s people are now brought into His presence in the light, and are always there; it is where He has placed them by faith—not a question of their feelings.

And God does not merely say sin is put away, but the conscience is perfect (Heb 9:9—NC); no more conscience of sin (not sinning); that is the same as a perfect conscience. We all have a conscience of sinning, but if I have a conscience of sin I cannot come to the Father, but am like Adam hiding from Him. What we have is not only sin put away in the presence of the Father, but put away from the conscience too. Many own the former, but think they need repeated forgiveness. How could sin be put away once for all? It could not be but by the suffering of the Savior on the Cross. Must He, then, die again?

There was a piety in the Old Testament, and piety is a blessed thing, but there was never a purged conscience (Heb 10:2—NC). We never find in the most pious person under the law the sense of being in the presence of the Father. The high priest must go once a year within the veil with clouds of incense; but now the Holiest is made manifest, the veil being rent from top to bottom, and the conscience is perfect as the light in which we stand in the Father’s presence.

Under the old covenant, it was only “the errors of the people” (Heb 9:7—NC) that were forgiven. Now God takes up the spring of a man altogether. The old covenant dealt with man on the ground of obedience; now the Father is bringing the sinner himself into a new position before Him. The old covenant was a partial remedy, with the declaration that they could not come into God’s presence. Now while this kept up a testimony for God, a new thing is brought out, not to patch up the old thing—that was the old even in its remedial character; but now it is bringing in a new thing entirely—given a new life in Christ. The Jewish systems was a provision for the old man without seeing God, instead of bringing man perfect, in a new life and nature, into the very presence of the Father.

The work of Christ and the blood of Christ are not provision for the sins of the old man, but for the perfecting of the conscience of the new man, to set him in the presence of the Father. We could not be in His presence with one spot on us; we are brought into heaven itself. The Father looking upon the Blood of His Son cannot see sin. It is not a question of my value of that Blood, but the conscience rests on the value the Father finds in it.

Under the old covenant, obedience was required from man in his Adam-life; a veil was before God, and man was outside—and he must remain outside. The animal sacrifices made a temporary provision for fellowship with God, but there was no coming to Him. Christ, as High Priest of good things to come, brings the new man into the Father’s presence forever. The veil is rent, and there is a risen Person with cleansing power in the presence of the Father. Such is the perfectness of the position in which we are set.

- H H Snell
 
That sounds like preaching to me, netchaplain. Like cutting it straight even when that cut goes both ways. The Word of God is quick and sharp. I need it to be taught just like that because when I consider my conscience --then comes the admission, then comes the petition and then comes the thought again, "Lord? I am not worthy of You."

Each man to his own? We simply may not continue that way. I firmly believe that we (each person) is created, is made to be - in Love with God and fully capable of receiving Love (and all that comes with it) from Him even through others. But, like that old wine skin, I am afraid. My conscience is not clear except as I come before Him led by the Holy Spirit. There is a promise that I hold dear. It's hidden. The 2nd chapter of Hosea and verse 20 speaks to my need:

I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness; and thou shalt know the LORD.

In our best Dr. Seuss voice, we may say, "No more pie, not in the sky, not after I die." I want that faithfulness, I need it; stretch out my arms to Him who can do all things for it. When we hear the phrase, "exceedingly abundantly above," used in The Word of Truth, it means that this too is possible. There are some who will be betrothed (that's a sacred pledge) in faithfulness. To me, this means God-Trust-ing-ness. Betrothed to Him in my faith-full-ness? Sounds perfect, doesn't it?

It does.

~Sparrow


*The phrase, 'exceedingly abundantly above' is found in Eph 3:20 and the context is good too!
 
I need it to be taught just like that because when I consider my conscience --then comes the admission, then comes the petition and then comes the thought again, "Lord? I am not worthy of You."

~Sparrow

To me, having "no more conscience of sins" means that the believer is never attributed guilt because of Christ's ministry. Though believers may retain the "old man" and his affects, they never have to consider being guilty about anything, just remorseful in the wrongs and grateful for the "forgiveness" and "cleansing" (1 John 1:9).
 
The infinite contrast between Israel (unbelieving Hebrews/Jews—NC) and the Church is that we are in the presence of the Father, and we are always there; that is the Christian ground: the Jews (same as above—NC) never were there. This is very little realized by Christians today. The work is accomplished once for all, and we are brought nigh by virtue of the work of the Cross; and if we are not there through that work, we never can get there. Our feelings may be varying from day to day, but or standing before the Father never changes in the Son.

[Comment removed by Staff]

If it is a question of being in the Father’s presence, I must abide where He is. In His presence sin is not measured by transgression, but by what the Father is—“in the light as He is in the light.” “Ye were darkness but now are ye light in the Lord.” God’s people are now brought into His presence in the light, and are always there; it is where He has placed them by faith—not a question of their feelings.

What does it mean to be in the light? What was given to Moses so God's servant would be as a light unto the nations? I pretty sure your Jesus didn't he was that light rather he was IN that light and didn't he say that you should be in that light as he was in that light too? Then why do you forsake the Torah? If anyone thought to read God's own words as recorded in Tanach you would see Torah is that holy, righteous and good light we are to be in. Which also implies, contrary to your teaching, when you abide in that light you are in te Father's presence and He present with you.

And God does not merely say sin is put away, but the conscience is perfect (Heb 9:9—NC); no more conscience of sin (not sinning); that is the same as a perfect conscience. We all have a conscience of sinning, but if I have a conscience of sin I cannot come to the Father, but am like Adam hiding from Him. What we have is not only sin put away in the presence of the Father, but put away from the conscience too. Many own the former, but think they need repeated forgiveness. How could sin be put away once for all? It could not be but by the suffering of the Savior on the Cross. Must He, then, die again?

There was a piety in the Old Testament, and piety is a blessed thing, but there was never a purged conscience (Heb 10:2—NC). We never find in the most pious person under the law the sense of being in the presence of the Father. The high priest must go once a year within the veil with clouds of incense; but now the Holiest is made manifest, the veil being rent from top to bottom, and the conscience is perfect as the light in which we stand in the Father’s presence.

Under the old covenant, it was only “the errors of the people” (Heb 9:7—NC) that were forgiven. Now God takes up the spring of a man altogether. The old covenant dealt with man on the ground of obedience; now the Father is bringing the sinner himself into a new position before Him. The old covenant was a partial remedy, with the declaration that they could not come into God’s presence. Now while this kept up a testimony for God, a new thing is brought out, not to patch up the old thing—that was the old even in its remedial character; but now it is bringing in a new thing entirely—given a new life in Christ. The Jewish systems was a provision for the old man without seeing God, instead of bringing man perfect, in a new life and nature, into the very presence of the Father.

The work of Christ and the blood of Christ are not provision for the sins of the old man, but for the perfecting of the conscience of the new man, to set him in the presence of the Father. We could not be in His presence with one spot on us; we are brought into heaven itself. The Father looking upon the Blood of His Son cannot see sin. It is not a question of my value of that Blood, but the conscience rests on the value the Father finds in it.

The ol' book written to a group of Hebrews by an unknown author and thought apochcryphal even by the majority of your church fathers. Are you sure you want to risk your own life on this book? Cannot see your sin? Rest assured your Creator and God does see your sin everday you walk in that dark thick cloud. And I would suggest to anyone who thinks he can hide his or sin under covers of sack cloth, blood or good works think again and consider Proverbs 28:13. Because in it you find confession and repentance brings about mercy, grace and forgiveness, all without a human sacrifice or any type of sacrifice for that matter.

Under the old covenant, obedience was required from man in his Adam-life; a veil was before God, and man was outside—and he must remain outside. The animal sacrifices made a temporary provision for fellowship with God, but there was no coming to Him. Christ, as High Priest of good things to come, brings the new man into the Father’s presence forever. The veil is rent, and there is a risen Person with cleansing power in the presence of the Father. Such is the perfectness of the position in which we are set.

- H H Snell

Well, the temple is destroyed so according to Torah no animal sacrifice is even permitted anyhow. But God by His prophet Hosea gave us words to say that take the place of sacrifice and blood. "Take with you words, and turn to Yehovah; say to him: Forgive all iniquity, and receive us graciously; so will we offer the words of our lips instead of bulls."
 
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