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All we need is love, love. Love is all we need.

handy

handy

Member
There are several topics of discussion right now about various subjects, abortion, gay marriage, the homosexual issue in general, war, etc. It seems as though many times in these discussions what is brought up is, "We need to love, not condemn."

I decided to make a topic to discuss just what we do need to do for non-Christians. Is all we need to do is to love them? Is there never an appropriate time to condemn sin? Is it wrong to call someone to account for preaching and teaching that sin is OK, God loves you anyway.

To start the ball rolling, I think of the verse that says, "For God demonstrates His own love for us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

If God loved us before Christ died, and if love was all we needed, then why did Christ have to die at all? If God loves us just as we are, no matter what we are, and this love for us was in place before Christ came to the cross, then what was the purpose of the cross?
 
I will admit I do think we need to minister in love. At the same time, I do also feel we cannot love without sharing the truth. I just think it is often a fine line a number of Christians walk when it becomes more a matter of conviction and condemnation rather than speaking of the sin, and then praying for the person. Rather than continuously arguing the wrongness of a person's ways. For it is even written in scripture that when a brother or sister in Christ will not listen, we are to let them be and pray for them. In hopes that perhaps God may speak to their hearts. After all, we cannot force anyone to believe in God nor repent.

Just my thoughts...

May God Bless You

Danielle
 
I've not read where anyone has said that God thinks that sin is ok. I have seen where I and others have said that it's God's job to point out people's sin. Not ours.

Love IS all we need. Jesus said it would be our love and good deeds that bring people to God. Not our condemnation of what we perceive as their sins.

The problem about pointing out the sins of others is eventually that finger is going to come right back around and point at us. Then what? We're hypocrites and we've lost any credibility we may have had.

For ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. ALL. When you looked a little too longingly at your worship leader, you sinned just as much as the homosexual. The real problem is how we view different sins. Homosexuality is alarming to some, so they think that someone means it's a greater sin than lying or lusting. The Bible never makes a distinction. In fact, based on sheer word count, God hates sins such as lying and stealing a lot worse than he does homosexuality.

When you take over the job of the Holy Spirit, you've set yourself up for failure. Love them to God and then let the Holy Spirit show them the sin in their lives.
 
Really interesting subject, and some great posts above.

I think this is a really big issue.

We should never stand up and say that we are righteous, and that the other person is a sinner, or look down on people and judge them, because they have fallen short. Of course they have fallen short - and so have we! I can only echo the sentiment that all have sinned, without exception. If one is lost, all are lost. No-one has any right to think that others are worse sinners than themselves, even if we're tempted sometimes to do that.

Homosexuals, single parents, divorcees... all are very often the hate targets of fundamentalist Christians. Difficult contentious issues, but we have no right to say we're better than them.
 
Hi friends,

I agree that the roll of Gods love in us towards others is a very real consideration as we effectively try to represent both His care and love as well as our own. He loved the sinner and hates the sin that destroys.

Why He alone had to die and be punished for the sin and rebellion is laid out in the OT as well as the New. Remembering that He was what I could never have been and we are what He can not be as well. God may be way fuller aware of the need for the blood sacrafice of a sinless man than we presently know. I do know it was Him who bore my sin and punishment with Him on the cross. I have no standing with God unless I repent for my own sins that nailed Him there. The facts are that Jesus alone died a personal agonizing death as the suffering servant Messiah according to scripture and rose from the grave according to scripture. He who was the only perfect Son of God was make my rightiousness and His love for God and mankind drove Him to be obediant to His calling where as I am weak in all points that Jesus was strong for me. He is the perfect image of God being alive in a man, I can only attemp to immulate His love and be obediant to the Fathers calling on my life. Phil 2 is very interesting as we learn that we should love one another even as Christ gave His whole life sacraficially for the redemptin of others. Let this mind be in you, etc.

In so many ways we do walk with Him as we do the things we have to do to be what He wants us to be. When we do it right a life is filled with many crowning moments from God, they were all bought and paid for through Jesus sacrafice and perfect life poured out for us.

Really, we have nothing to compain about or to boast about conserning those life long goals and achievments. We cast our crowns before Him, because He is the maker of all the oppertunities to serve His good purposes in Christ Jesus.

Out of the good treasures of His heart, He set us free from our sins. You are washed pure in His blood, Behold the Lamb, who takes away the sins of the world. Each day we draw another day closer to His return and or our own personal date with destiney. One bright day our nature will be changed and just the perfect love of God will remain in our beings. The hope of the World is our hope for our own rightstanding in God. Walking with God is a life time adventure and we are so fortunet that the Lord of the Harvest has come unto each of us. The path of the just in God is as a shinning light that shines more and more unto that perfect day, when we shall see Jesus as He is.

Gods love is a little different that our love for oneanother, Jesus was very set to do the will of the father, like a flint, but then He was what we could not be. Who says we need a covenant of grace, huh.. Jesus is our everything for sure, God make the universe that way, believe and you will see. It is impossible to please God without faith in the Only begotten Son.

That is why He died on the cross, my sins put Him there and His blood washed my sins away. If it seems unreal, just repent and believe in faith God means good unto His own. God is Good beyond human exsperiance yet shows Himself unto the world in Jesus our Lord. There is lots more why the cross, but that is only a starter, :study pray and read, it read, it read it.

I hope that helps. The main of it God so loved us in the world. He would that none should parrish with out the saving knowledge of God within them. It will happen though. I read it in the bible as well. Big mystories take time to grow into and through.

Many Blessing from God. All we need is Jesus Jesus Jesus to have His charactor alive in us all.

The greatest statement I have found for the need of the cross is strictly set into the heart of humanity. It goes like this, We are all thieves, liers and murderders in our sinfull charactor. We steal the glory from God daily as, for He alone is the redemptive force sent from God. We lie to ourselves and justify our sins to ourselves where as there is no justification for our rebellions within ourselves. Lastly our sins murdered both the Son of God and all who are sacraficing daily upon our battle fields to keep us and others free, to experiance the grace of God and grow in Grace.

Because I believe God was in Christ recocilling the world unto Himself, the blood of many innocent souls has died for me and you. It has taken lots of innocent blood to be able to simply live a life of peace in all Godliness before the Lord and according to scripture.. The joint condemnations of humanity runs very deep. You best be sure you are right with God. The reconcilliating is at the cross. He was raised from the dead for our rightiousness, that if we confess that good confession you will be saved.

Indeed why did God murder Jesus, no, why did I, It was because God knew I needed a Savior. Trust in the Lord and seek to be an overcomer in Him. Fear not though, for He has overcome for us who put our hopes and trust in Him.

May your hearts and minds be granted the understanding and that they may be at peace and know, That Jesus Christ is the only Hope of The World and soon coming Kind of Kings, apart from our doings of His word.

He became sin for us that we might inherite the Kingdom prepared for us befor the beginning of time. God has a plan for the world, we each have a part, may you find grace in the eyes of the Lord.
 
If God loved us before Christ died, and if love was all we needed, then why did Christ have to die at all?

We were not created just to receive love. Christ is our example in all things including love. Our purpose is to grow into the image of Christ. This means that we set aside our selfishness and grow in love which is selflessness.

2 Corinthians 5:15
And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

1 Corinthians 13:4-7
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love is essentially selflessness. We grow in love in proportion to our decrease in self and increase in "Christ formed in us". The phrase "all we need is love" might be also expressed, "all we need is Christ".

The cross is the means by which the opportunity to have new life in Jesus is offered. We have no hope of victory over our own selfishness without the cross.
 
Jules C said:
Really interesting subject, and some great posts above.

I think this is a really big issue.

We should never stand up and say that we are righteous, and that the other person is a sinner, or look down on people and judge them, because they have fallen short. Of course they have fallen short - and so have we! I can only echo the sentiment that all have sinned, without exception. If one is lost, all are lost. No-one has any right to think that others are worse sinners than themselves, even if we're tempted sometimes to do that.

Homosexuals, single parents, divorcees... all are very often the hate targets of fundamentalist Christians. Difficult contentious issues, but we have no right to say we're better than them.
Click to expand...

Jules, I am reminded of Romans 1-2 where Paul states:

25For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,

27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,

29being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips,

30slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,

31without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;

32and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

1Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.
2And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things.

3But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God?

4Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

5But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

6who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:

7to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;

8but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.


That passage was a bit long, I know. But I wanted to put it down in it's entirety because I think it points out the two fundamental problems that the church is experiencing today. One is to ignore the fact that God does hate and judge sin, and we are charged with getting that message out. But the other is that many, while getting the message out, are forgetting that we are all sinners and God hates the sin of arrogance just as much as He hates the sin of homosexuality.

The thing is, if all we need is love, and it's totally unloving to point out the sin of another, how then are we to fulfill what we have been charged with, ie the spreading of the full gospel of Christ, which includes calling for the repentence of sin as much as sharing the love of Christ?
 
handy said:
Jules C said:
Really interesting subject, and some great posts above.

I think this is a really big issue.

We should never stand up and say that we are righteous, and that the other person is a sinner, or look down on people and judge them, because they have fallen short. Of course they have fallen short - and so have we! I can only echo the sentiment that all have sinned, without exception. If one is lost, all are lost. No-one has any right to think that others are worse sinners than themselves, even if we're tempted sometimes to do that.

Homosexuals, single parents, divorcees... all are very often the hate targets of fundamentalist Christians. Difficult contentious issues, but we have no right to say we're better than them.
Click to expand...

Jules, I am reminded of Romans 1-2 where Paul states:

25For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,

27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,

29being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips,

30slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,

31without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;

32and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

1Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.
2And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things.

3But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God?

4Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

5But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

6who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:

7to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;

8but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.


That passage was a bit long, I know. But I wanted to put it down in it's entirety because I think it points out the two fundamental problems that the church is experiencing today. One is to ignore the fact that God does hate and judge sin, and we are charged with getting that message out. But the other is that many, while getting the message out, are forgetting that we are all sinners and God hates the sin of arrogance just as much as He hates the sin of homosexuality.

The thing is, if all we need is love, and it's totally unloving to point out the sin of another, how then are we to fulfill what we have been charged with, ie the spreading of the full gospel of Christ, which includes calling for the repentence of sin as much as sharing the love of Christ?
Click to expand...

Amen! Agree with you 100%
 
I think if we say we love someone, yet we never tell them the eternal consequences of unrepented sin, we have proven our love is worthless and worse than hatred. A part of loving someone is to tell them the things that are detrimental to their eternal welfare.
A lot of times we refuse to tell someone the truth because it makes "us" uncomfortable: meaning we love self more than we love them.
 
i think that people expect us to love them the way that they think they should be loved, and not how God expects us to love others. the Bible gives numerous examples in the Gospels where Jesus corrected his disciples' point of view, but did it in love.
 
This goes to the very core of the matter that some churches and people have a problem with how to confront or deal with sin with love. sometimes all we see is extremes - judgement and confrontation re sin but not done in or with Christ's love - how is that going to speak to a person to make them interested about the gospel and to turn to Christ which is the goal?

Then the other side is 'God loves everyone' and it seems to cover up sin or excuse it, never wanting to stand up and say x and y is sin.

Obviously its clear in the bible -
1 Corinthians 13:1 "If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,but have not love, I gain nothing. ....And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love." (I think we should start reading these verses not just at weddings!)

That however or whatever we are trying to reach out to win people to Christ (that is our goal!) that it must come from love and not hate (I hate gays etc) then there is a chance that people will see Christ in us then will be receptive to hearing God's word and then through Christ they will turn from their sinful ways (only through Christ strength). I find people are receptive to hearing about their sin and wanting to do something about it AFTER they are ready to receive Jesus or wanting to know more about the gospel.

It's simple to me - it's all about how you say or do it - Colossians 4:6 says, “Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.â€Â

You can stand up for what you believe and say what is sin with grace but be strong. Hopefully everyone knows someone with grace to remember what they are like, sadly there are very few but when I come across someone like that, that is who I look to, for an example in how to live and what to say in my Christian walk as I know because of their fruit they are walking close with God.
 
Hi all,
When I approach non-believers, I remind myself that without Christ they can't not sin. Without salvation, they do not have the assurance of being reconciled with Christ, without Christ they do not have the Holy Spirit which will continue His corrective work. So, when I speak to non-believers I do it with love. I tell them what God has done for me. I share my salvation experience, invite them to church activities, pray for them and answer questions.
A person who claims to be a believer or has turned their back on the church is a different story. I don't believer it's ok not to speak against sin within the body of Christ. My pastor likes to say we are not be be part time Christians.
 
Most parents love their child unconditionally. But children still need to be shown the way, and disciplined when neccisary. So to must the truth be revealed and expressed to non christians. You are a messanger, a disciple, spread the word.
 
Is "love" allowing people to do what they want? If a parent allows his children to do what they want, it will ruin them. Allowing children to do what they want is not love; it is indulgence, and indulgence can be destructive.

" FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES, AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES."

It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of spirits, and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but He disciplines us for our good, so that we may share His holiness.

All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness. Hebrews 12:6-11 NASB

Ephesians 5:11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.
 
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