Allah and Yahwah

[Hopeful 2]

What is the name of the Son who laid the foundation of the earth and stretched out the heavens?

At the time He did it, His name was the Word.

 

[Free]

There isn’t much to suggest The Angel of the LORD is a reference to the Son of God?

Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:1-6

• And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire

Do you believe the Angel of the LORD refers to the Father or the Son?


Angels are sons of God.

The Angel of the LORD is The Son of God.

Surely we can at least agree on this.


Do you understand that everywhere the LORD appeared to people in the Old Testament it was the Son; God the Son?

No one had seen God the Father in the Old Testament.


No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18

Again, there is nothing to suggest that the angel of the LORD is the Son of God. It might be, it might not be. It's not a hill to die on.

 

[Free]

YHWH certainly is God’s name.

I know. That's exactly what I've been telling you.

And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me to you.’ ”
Exodus 3:14

Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 8:58-59

Jesus invoked the Name I AM as His own and the Jews when the heard Him say it, picked up stones to stone Him for blasphemy.


Do you believe Jesus was God manifested in the flesh?

Not God the Father, but the Son.

Of course, that is exactly what I've been telling you. Perhaps you should read my posts more closely. You have been, up until now, saying something very different, namely, that "Jesus is the name of the YHWH." Why are you now changing your position?

Yes there are three persons of the Godhead; The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit. They are co equal God.

And the name of "the Godhead," the name of God, is YHWH. The Son is YHWH but YHWH isn't the Son, as you claim.

Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:1-5

• Thus the LORD my God will come, and all the saints with You.

Who is coming on the Day of the LORD with the saints?

The Father or the Son?


Do you understand the Day of the LORD is called the Day of Christ?

Of course. But, do you understand that the Father sends the Son? If it is called the Day of the LORD, then that means it is the Day of YHWH, who is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And:
“You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10


Who laid the foundation of the earth and stretched out the heavens?

The Son.

The Son is called LORD (YHWH) in verse 10.

Yes, exactly. First, as I stated, it is only to show that Jesus is YHWH, just as the Father is, and just as the Holy Spirit is. Second, as you say, "The Son is called YHWH in verse 10,"

 

[JLB]

Again, there is nothing to suggest that the angel of the LORD is the Son of God. It might be, it might not be. It's not a hill to die on.

Do you believe what the scriptures say about the Angel of the LORD?


Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:1-6

• And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him
• And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.

Do you believe the Angel of the LORD was God?

 

[JLB]

Jesus is the name of the YHWH.

Yes.

Jesus is the Name of the LORD, YHWH the LORD God.

The Son is YHWH but YHWH isn't the Son, as you claim.

The Son is YHWH. I agree.


But to the Son He says:…

You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:10

Zechariah says it this way -

The burden of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him: Zechariah 12:1

It was the Son, the Spirit of Christ, speaking through Zechariah.

 

[JLB]

Of course. But, do you understand that the Father sends the Son?

Yes sir.

The Father sent His Son.

God the Son, became flesh.

 

[JLB]

Yes, exactly. First, as I stated, it is only to show that Jesus is YHWH, just as the Father is, and just as the Holy Spirit is.

Amen.

 

[JLB]

At the time He did it, His name was the Word.

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11

 

[Hopeful 2]

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11

Thank God for that.
Mind saying why you wrote it ?

 

[JLB]

Thank God for that.
Mind saying why you wrote it ?

The Spirit of Christ, Jesus Christ, spoke through the mouth of the Old Testament prophets.

 

[Hopeful 2]

The Spirit of Christ, Jesus Christ, spoke through the mouth of the Old Testament prophets.

Yes, the Spirit that was in Jesus Christ did just that, hundreds of years before the Word took on flesh and was born of a woman.
That Spirit also taught the ones in prison/tomb in 1 Peter 1:10-11, and 3:19-20.

 

[JLB]

Yes, the Spirit that was in Jesus Christ did just that

The Spirit of Christ which is the Spirit of the LORD; YHWH the LORD God.

 

[Free]

Yes.

Jesus is the Name of the LORD, YHWH the LORD God.

Please quote context, lest anyone think that I actually stated and believe that "Jesus is the name of the YHWH." What I said was: You have been, up until now, saying something very different, namely, that "Jesus is the name of the YHWH."

But, I have shown how both of those clauses are grammatical nonsense, which you have yet to address.

The Son is YHWH. I agree.

But, is YHWH the Son? If so, then you are teaching what Oneness/Sabellianism teaches. If not, then you are contradicting your claim that "Jesus is the Name of the LORD, YHWH the LORD God."

Yes sir.

The Father sent His Son.

God the Son, became flesh.

Is the Father YHWH? If so, then that contradicts your claim that "Jesus is the Name of the LORD, YHWH the LORD God."

It's also worth noting that you have yet to address Ex 3:15, which I have given twice:

Exo 3:15 God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘[YHWH], the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations. (ESV)

Do you believe YHWH when he said that YHWH is his "name forever," and that is how he is "to be remembered throughout all generations"? If so, how can Jesus be God's name?

 

[Hopeful 2]

The Spirit of Christ which is the Spirit of the LORD; YHWH the LORD God.

Yep.

 

[JLB]

Is the Father YHWH? If so, then that contradicts your claim that "Jesus is the Name of the LORD, YHWH the LORD God."

That is just another one of your opinions.

 

[JLB]

Exo 3:15 God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘[YHWH], the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations. (ESV)

Do you believe YHWH when he said that YHWH is his "name forever," and that is how he is "to be remembered throughout all generations"? If so, how can Jesus be God's name?

You will need to go back and answer my questions before you can expect anymore dialog from me.

Please read my post and answer the question.

Do you believe what the scriptures say about the Angel of the LORD?


Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:1-6

• And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him
• And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.

Do you believe the Angel of the LORD was God?

Do you believe the Angel of the LORD was God?

 

[hishandmaiden]

Yahweh is not the only name for God. God is also known as Elohim in the old testament.
In the new testament, we simply called Him, "Father".

 

[Free]

That is just another one of your opinions.

No, it's basic logic based on what Scripture teaches. Is there a reason you didn't answer a simple question--"Is the Father YHWH?"?

You will need to go back and answer my questions before you can expect anymore dialog from me.

Please read my post and answer the question.

Why? I clearly asked you FIRST and you've avoided it several times.

Do you believe the Angel of the LORD was God?

I already answered it, twice: HERE and HERE.

 

[JLB]

No, it's basic logic based on what Scripture teaches. Is there a reason you didn't answer a simple question--"Is the Father YHWH?"?

I have stated repeatedly that the Father is YHWH and the Holy Spirit is YHWH; These three are one.

 

[JLB]

I already answered it, twice: HERE and HERE.

I did not see where you answered my question which was -

Do you believe the Angel of the LORD was God?

Here is your post you referred to saying you answered my question.




That is not teaching that Jesus is the name of the LORD. You need to address the faulty reasoning of your claim, as I have given it more than once now. You are saying that "Jesus is the name of the YHWH," but YHWH is God's name. So, you're saying "Jesus is the name of the name of God," which is nonsensical. This passage is teaching that Jesus is Lord and strongly implies that Jesus is Yahweh. Not that that does not mean that Yahweh's name is Jesus because, again, that is nonsensical. It means that Jesus is Yahweh, that he is truly God.

Rom 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” (ESV)

This is from Joel 2:32:

Joe 2:32 And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of [YHWH] shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as [YHWH] has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom [YHWH] calls. (ESV)


Exo 3:15 And God said again to Moses, "So you must say to the Israelites, 'Yahweh, the God of your ancestors, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is my name forever, and this is my remembrance from generation to generation.' (LEB)

Why haven't you addressed this passage yet? You are saying God changed his name to Jesus, without any warrant for doing so, and in the process, contradicting what God says.



Where have I called you a name? Don't make accusations if you can't back them up, lest you are proven to be lying. And, again, I am not misrepresenting you.

'The "Jesus Only" movement, also known as Oneness Pentecostalism or oneness theology, teaches that there is only one God, but denies the tri-unity of God. In other words, oneness theology does not recognize the distinct persons of the Godhead: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It has various forms / modes / manifestations—some see Jesus Christ as the one God, who sometimes manifests Himself as the Father or the Holy Spirit. The core doctrine of Oneness Pentecostal / Jesus Only is that Jesus is the Father and Jesus is the Spirit. There is one God who reveals Himself in different "modes."'

https://www.gotquestions.org/oneness-Jesus-only.html


And? That doesn't mean YHWH is Jesus. It means that Jesus is YHWH, that he is truly God. Note that it is the Father who says that of the Son. Two persons, not one.

The LORD YHWH stretched out the heavens and laid the foundation of the earth.

Again, you don't seem to understand a basic translation concept, namely, that YHWH, in the OT, is replaced by "the LORD," at least in English translations. Not all translations do that, such as the LEB, but most do. So, saying "The LORD YHWH," is the same as saying "YHWH YHWH," which doesn't make sense.

Jesus is the NAME of the LORD; YHWH the LORD God.

No, it isn't. First, because that is nonsensical, as I have pointed out several times now. Second, Jesus is the Son of God incarnate, the second person of the Trinity in human flesh. He is not the Father nor the Holy Spirit. Third, you're once again saying "YHWH YHWH God," which doesn't make sense.

Since Jesus is only the second person of the Trinity in human flesh, to claim that God's name is Jesus, is to equate Jesus with all of YHWH. That is, you're saying Jesus is YHWH (which is correct) and YHWH is Jesus, but that is exactly the error that Jesus Only/Oneness teach. That makes YHWH only one person, Jesus, instead of three.

The Angel of the LORD is a reference to Jesus the Son of God before He became flesh.

Do you believe this to be true? I think you do.

The Angel of the LORD is The Son of God.

I don't know if that's true or not. There isn't much to suggest it is.