An atheist trying to convert christians

[G. White]

I befriended a co-worker years ago (Mike), this was before I discovered he was an atheist. One day on the job I am working along-side him with two others across from us on the line who were born again christians. Mike knew about this and so he tried baiting them into a religious discussion.

He asked, "If it took God six days to create the heaven and earth and on the seventh day he rested, why did he rest? Afterall he's God! He shouldn't need rest."

2nd question: "Why didn't God just create everything in an instant? Aftrall he's supposed to be so mighty, why did it take him six days instead of a split second?!"

3rd point as a statement: "Your bible only tracks time back to approximately 10,000 years and yet science proves dinosaurs walked the earth millions of years ago. According to your bible dinosaurs never existed and time didn't exist before the book of Genesis."

From what I can remember (this happened many years ago) is that they didn't give him any real replies. It's as if it was better for them to ignore him rather than to offer a greater perspective.

Is it the duty of all christians to save souls (or at least give their best attempt)?

I wonder to this day why they didn't get more involved in forming a challenging debate.

 

[Free]

I befriended a co-worker years ago (Mike), this was before I discovered he was an atheist. One day on the job I am working along-side him with two others across from us on the line who were born again christians. Mike knew about this and so he tried baiting them into a religious discussion.

He asked, "If it took God six days to create the heaven and earth and on the seventh day he rested, why did he rest? Afterall he's God! He shouldn't need rest."

2nd question: "Why didn't God just create everything in an instant? Aftrall he's supposed to be so mighty, why did it take him six days instead of a split second?!"

3rd point as a statement: "Your bible only tracks time back to approximately 10,000 years and yet science proves dinosaurs walked the earth millions of years ago. According to your bible dinosaurs never existed and time didn't exist before the book of Genesis."

From what I can remember (this happened many years ago) is that they didn't give him any real replies. It's as if it was better for them to ignore him rather than to offer a greater perspective.

Is it the duty of all christians to save souls (or at least give their best attempt)?

I wonder to this day why they didn't get more involved in forming a challenging debate.

I think they should have challenged him, in a friendly way of course. Perhaps they knew how he was and figured he wouldn't listen to them. Perhaps they didn't have any good answers. It can be harder to come up with an answer on the spot in situations like that than in a forum such as this.

This is why it is so important for Christians to get into apologetics and for churches to teach it, whether from the pulpit, in small group study, in Sunday school, or all three. Christians need to be able to give a defense when someone asks (1 Pet 3:15), not only for the sake of the questioner, but also any who might be listening.

We shouldn't look at it as saving souls, as that is God's job alone, but rather that we need to clear away the bush, so to speak, giving them a clearer view of the Cross.

 

[Frodo]

If Christians dont have an answer for why they believe what they believe, they are denying a fundamental precept set forth by God. In I Peter, the apostle states:

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

The word 'answer' is the same as 'apology' from where Christians get the phrase 'apologetics'. This is not good advice, this is a command. Notice also that this verse says this answer is to be given to 'EVERY MAN THAT ASKETH YOU'. Whether they are genuine or scoffers...they deserve an answer.

 

[handy]

If Christians dont have an answer for why they believe what they believe, they are denying a fundamental precept set forth by God. In I Peter, the apostle states:

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

The word 'answer' is the same as 'apology' from where Christians get the phrase 'apologetics'. This is not good advice, this is a command. Notice also that this verse says this answer is to be given to 'EVERY MAN THAT ASKETH YOU'. Whether they are genuine or scoffers...they deserve an answer.

True...absolutely true.

But, I don't necessarily believe that my "answer" has to be in response to a direct question...sometime my answer might be based upon the intent behind the questions...if the intent is obvious enough

For instance, in the OP, G. White specifically said that the athiest was "baiting" the Christians...Christ didn't answer "baiters" nor does He expect us to.

The thing to keep in mind is that Christ had a lot clearer insight into peoples hearts than we do.

Since they were all working together, I'll give the brethern the benefit of the doubt and trust they had good reason to believe the athiest was baiting them.

Here's how I usually handle these situations myself. I'll give an honest straightforward answer to begin with. I'd answer the first question with this:

Two reasons...one He was establishing a time of rest for people. Jesus explained that the Sabbath was made for man. Secondly, there is a spiritual correlation between the Sabbath rest and Jesus' finished work on the cross. I'd love to tell you about Jesus' finished work on the cross, are you interested in hearing about it?

Now, it's back on the athiest...is he truly interested in spiritual matters...or was he just trying to beat down the faith of a fellow co-worker? If it becomes clear that he's just baiting me to beat down my faith or make me look or feel stupid...well, go ahead and check, Jesus didn't anwer every question put to Him.

 

[felix]

As a Christians, our faith must not be blind but be rational and based on reasoning. As in Isa 1:18, we can reason with God Himself.

Let me come to the actual questions asked by your friend:

He asked, "If it took God six days to create the heaven and earth and on the seventh day he rested, why did he rest? Afterall he's God! He shouldn't need rest."

God rested on the 7th day because He made me King to sit on His throne to rule everything including your friend (Rev 3:21, Rev 5:10) with Him on the 7th day (Heb 4:9).

2nd question: "Why didn't God just create everything in an instant? Aftrall he's supposed to be so mighty, why did it take him six days instead of a split second?!"

Time is relative. Six days is not for God. It is a count given for mankind to take a day off in the week. 2Pet 3:8 clearly explains that there is no constant 'time' for God.

3rd point as a statement: "Your bible only tracks time back to approximately 10,000 years and yet science proves dinosaurs walked the earth millions of years ago. According to your bible dinosaurs never existed and time didn't exist before the book of Genesis."

Job mentions dinosaurs called Leviathan (or the so called pre-historic animals) first in Job 3:8 which means, he knows what he is speaking about and probably might have seen dinosaurs in his lifetime.
Coming to the 'millions of years' fairy tale: All radiometric dating techniques (e.g.,radiocarbon, potassium-argon, rubidium-strontium etc) which gives results as 'millions of years' is based on radioactive decay. However, in quantum mechanics, it is impossible to predict when a given atom will start to decay. Also, God did not create the earth on the first day. He created even before that, something called 'In the beginning...' the creation of 'time' itself (Gen 1:1).

 

[Stormcrow]

He asked, "If it took God six days to create the heaven and earth and on the seventh day he rested, why did he rest? Afterall he's God! He shouldn't need rest."

The Hebrew word "u·ishbth" is better translated "ceased."

^{2}and God completeth by the seventh day His work which He hath made, and ceaseth by the seventh day from all His work which He hath made. Genesis 2:2 (YLT)

This translation of the word is also seen in the Septuagint:

And God finished on the sixth day his works which he made, and he ceased on the seventh day from all his works which he made. And God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it he ceased from all his works which God began to do. Genesis 2:2 LXX

God finished all that He was going to create, so He stopped. He didn't need rest, He was simply done.

2nd question: "Why didn't God just create everything in an instant? Aftrall he's supposed to be so mighty, why did it take him six days instead of a split second?!"

Because while God is almighty, all-knowing, and eternal, His creation is not. God created time, too, not for His sake but for ours.

3rd point as a statement: "Your bible only tracks time back to approximately 10,000 years and yet science proves dinosaurs walked the earth millions of years ago. According to your bible dinosaurs never existed and time didn't exist before the book of Genesis."

Science doesn't "prove" anything: it attempts to "disprove" the theories and hypotheses it tests. Most laymen don't understand this. The fact that so much science seems to revolve around "proving" things - like man-made global warming - simply illustrates how much science has been corrupted by politics. Therefore, every assumption needs to be challenged. Period.

I wonder to this day why they didn't get more involved in forming a challenging debate.

You were all at work. My guess is your employer doesn't pay you guys to chat on the job.

Hope this helps.

 

[Rageprophet]

Science can't even tell us where oil comes from, yet somehow it can tell us about things that are no longer here or about how the universe was created.

 

[Ashua]

He asked, "If it took God six days to create the heaven and earth and on the seventh day he rested, why did he rest? Afterall he's God! He shouldn't need rest."

"Rest" for God does not mean to sleep or to revive his stamina. It means to rest from his work. In court when the prosecution rests, it is only saying that they are finished making their case. So God rests when he finishes "making" his creation. God never actually rests:

16And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.

17But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. (John 5:16-17)

2nd question: "Why didn't God just create everything in an instant? Aftrall he's supposed to be so mighty, why did it take him six days instead of a split second?!"

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. -Isaiah 55:8

Perhaps God was enjoying the process? Perhaps, like an artist or sculptor, he was "having fun" doing what he was doing rather than an instantaneous blink of the eyes (not that 6 days is much more in the sight of God.) Is there a logical necessity for God to race? This argument is grasping at straws.

3rd point as a statement: "Your bible only tracks time back to approximately 10,000 years and yet science proves dinosaurs walked the earth millions of years ago. According to your bible dinosaurs never existed and time didn't exist before the book of Genesis."

The earth is just under seven thousand years old. To address geological dating we should consider Adam.

Adam was formed as a mature man. He was never a gamete, an embryo, a fetus, an infant, a toddler, a child, an adolescent----He was created in a mature state. So the Earth also came pre-aged. A ready platform to host the ready inhabitants. As for dinosaur ages and so on....

science dating methods revolve around great assumptions and often times circular reasoning. They claim to know the age of bones by what layer in the earth they are found in. They claim to know the age of the layer of earth by what bones are found within it. Also, the law of uniformitarianism assumes that the earth itself has not evolved, I.E. have the C4 levels been static throughout the history of the planet? Dating methods have lots of problems and contradictions and known erroneous results on documentation. Its not quite as "proven" as my connotation of the word denotes.

 

[Timothy]

I would only say sometimes there is no wisdom in arguing with someone who is just trying to cause strife and division in your faith. I find it better to judge the intent of their questions. If they seem to want an open and honest discussion cause they are trying to understand, answer. If the intent is anything like just wanting to argue or to bring you down I politely decline. This in my opinion goes for anything. I see no logic or wisdom in debating or arguing just for the sake of arguing or debating.

 

[AKJVReader]

He asked, "If it took God six days to create the heaven and earth and on the seventh day he rested, why did he rest? Afterall he's God! He shouldn't need rest."

It is what you mean by "rest" the translation actually means that God spent the day enjoying His Creation. God does not sleep.

2nd question: "Why didn't God just create everything in an instant? Aftrall he's supposed to be so mighty, why did it take him six days instead of a split second?!"

Because He wanted a very good Creation. And it was more pleasurable to do it in six days. Plus time is not a big deal to God who was and is eternal.

3rd point as a statement: "Your bible only tracks time back to approximately 10,000 years and yet science proves dinosaurs walked the earth millions of years ago. According to your bible dinosaurs never existed and time didn't exist before the book of Genesis."

The dinosaurs are the dragons in the Bible. Dinosaur was not a word until the 1800's.

Pretty easy answers eh?

 

[Drummer4Christ]

Can I ask everyone here a question?

How long did it take God to make the stars? Thanks.

One day.

Genesis 1:

<SUP class=versenum id=en-TNIV-1>1</SUP> In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. <SUP class=versenum id=en-TNIV-2>2</SUP> Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
<SUP class=versenum id=en-TNIV-3>3</SUP> And God said, “Let there be light,†and there was light. <SUP class=versenum id=en-TNIV-4>4</SUP> God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. <SUP class=versenum id=en-TNIV-5>5</SUP> God called the light “day,†and the darkness he called “night.†And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

The proper response -

"Is it the duty of all christians to save souls (or at least give their best attempt)?"

Nope, it's not. "Christians" can't "Save" anybody no matter HOW HARD they try.

The "Duty" of Christians is to: 1 Pet 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

i.e. give testimony of the things you KNOW - and leave it there. if they HEAR, then they hear. and if they DON'T - they don't. Simple as that. Your TESTIMONY is what you ARE - not what you say.

Debating, or arguing with an atheist is like trying to teach a pig to sing. You're not gonna get anywhere, and you're only gonna irritate the pig.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

OF course -

"Would you be comfortable hearing that same statement targeted at Christians?"

Sure - it wouldn't bother me one way or another - AND I've heard a lot worse "Targeted at Christians" - often from other "Christians".

But since you took "offence" at the "Plainness" of it, it probably "hit the mark" properly.

Trying to reason with an atheist, debating with them, or arguing against their "Intellectual objections" on THEIR turf will get you nothing. But a simple testimony of God's Work in YOUR life - PLUS the moving/conviction of the Holy Spirit will blow away their ignorant beliefs in a millisecond. Your arguments never will.

 

[Ashua]

Can I ask everyone here a question?

How long did it take God to make the stars? Thanks.

If this is some kind of snare to do with the distance of light in relation to 6,000 years, you should probably realize that God could just have easily set light in motion from the instant of the stars being rather than having the light travel naturally without an initial jump start. Actually, it only makes sense that God would do that given the vanity of creating stars knowing full well their light would not be seen to His glory within God's time-table for humanity in the natural course of events.

"And God said let there be light and there was light."

Not "And God said Let there be light and ten billion years later there was light."

Do you think God is some man who needs to sit around patiently for natural processes to fulfill His will? God created the stars in place with their light instantaneously in effect so that it would shine upon the center piece of his creation.

 

[Drummer4Christ]

The original point of the question however was a to humorously point out God only took one day to create all the galaxies within which all the other stars and planets were created, yet took much longer to simply create the Earth alone.

Genesis 1:
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Earth did not take any longer than the rest of the universe to be created.

No other celestial body supports the immense variety of life, specifically sentient beings, than the Earth. Clearly, the Earth is unique and the explanation of it's formation (as well as humanity's) is more relevant since the Earth supports our existence.

 

[WIP]

If Christians dont have an answer for why they believe what they believe, they are denying a fundamental precept set forth by God. In I Peter, the apostle states:

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

The word 'answer' is the same as 'apology' from where Christians get the phrase 'apologetics'. This is not good advice, this is a command. Notice also that this verse says this answer is to be given to 'EVERY MAN THAT ASKETH YOU'. Whether they are genuine or scoffers...they deserve an answer.

I'm not sure I completely agree with this. When I read 1 Peter, I don't see 3:15 to be a command from God. I see it as Godly advice for living a Godly life, being a good witness, spreading the gospel.

As a Christians, our faith must not be blind but be rational andbased on reasoning.

Doesn't Jesus also say on more than one occasion that we are to have faith like that of a child? For this reason I'm not so sure it is necessary for us to have proof for every aspect of our faith. Hey, the disciples had more proof and evidence than anyone before or after and yet they lacked faith. What proof could we possibly find today that they couldn't find in order to validate every aspect of our faith?

 

[felix]

Doesn't Jesus also say on more than one occasion that we are to have faith like that of a child? For this reason I'm not so sure it is necessary for us to have proof for every aspect of our faith. Hey, the disciples had more proof and evidence than anyone before or after and yet they lacked faith. What proof could we possibly find today that they couldn't find in order to validate every aspect of our faith?

It's not faith like a child but humble like a child...

Matt 18:3 and said, "Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 18:4 "Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Drummer4Christ]

'In the beginning is is not the same as 'at the same time'. The 'beginning' simply indicates the start of a period of time being discussed. How in the world do you take this to mean simultaneously?

Aside from that, this verse would disagree with you:

1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

By the way, this took place after the Earth was created.

How did it take place after the Earth was created if "in the beginning" does not signify the initial creation?

Whoa, you sir are in line for a Nobel peace prize. We are currently extremely ignorant of whether or not any other celestial body supports life. We aren't even necessarily sure that other bodies within our own system did not at one time, or possibly currently do, support life.

I would love to see your source for the claim that "No other celestial body supports the immense variety of life, specifically sentient beings, than Earth."

I'd like to see your source that life does exists on other planets. I thought "lack of evidence" equals proof? If you can't "prove" the existence of life other than on Earth, then no other life exists.

Or does that line of reasoning only apply to the existence of God?


If you're basing your beliefs on being not "necessarily sure", I'd say you have just a much faith that the universe, this planet, and human existence is the result of a cosmic mishap as someone who believes otherwise.

 

[Free]

I'd like to see your source that life does exists on other planets. I thought "lack of evidence" equals proof? If you can't "prove" the existence of life other than on Earth, then no other life exists.

Or does that line of reasoning only apply to the existence of God?

 

[Danus]

I befriended a co-worker years ago (Mike), this was before I discovered he was an atheist. One day on the job I am working along-side him with two others across from us on the line who were born again christians. Mike knew about this and so he tried baiting them into a religious discussion.

He asked, "If it took God six days to create the heaven and earth and on the seventh day he rested, why did he rest? Afterall he's God! He shouldn't need rest."

2nd question: "Why didn't God just create everything in an instant? Aftrall he's supposed to be so mighty, why did it take him six days instead of a split second?!"

3rd point as a statement: "Your bible only tracks time back to approximately 10,000 years and yet science proves dinosaurs walked the earth millions of years ago. According to your bible dinosaurs never existed and time didn't exist before the book of Genesis."

From what I can remember (this happened many years ago) is that they didn't give him any real replies. It's as if it was better for them to ignore him rather than to offer a greater perspective.

Is it the duty of all christians to save souls (or at least give their best attempt)?

I wonder to this day why they didn't get more involved in forming a challenging debate.

It's not worth engaging someone who is not looking to God in the first place. The answers to their questions just lead them to more meaning less questions.

For example, a Christian understands that Genesis is not about how God created the universe, but simply THAT God created the universe. What ultimately happens is that the nonbeliever baits the believer. It's much easier to simply not believe. To a nonbeliever the whole notion of God is just silly. Let them be.

So here would be my answers.

"If it took God six days to create the heaven and earth and on the seventh day he rested, why did he rest? Afterall he's God! He shouldn't need rest."

He's God. It did not say he needed to rest, just says he rested. That's simply what he did.

2nd question: "Why didn't God just create everything in an instant? Aftrall he's supposed to be so mighty, why did it take him six days instead of a split second?!"

What's an instant, and what difference does the time make? Is creating the universe in 6 days not impressive enough? You need more?

3rd point as a statement: "Your bible only tracks time back to approximately 10,000 years and yet science proves dinosaurs walked the earth millions of years ago. According to your bible dinosaurs never existed and time didn't exist before the book of Genesis."

Wrong. the bible does not mention dinosaurs specifically one way or another nor does it date the universe one way or another, so it's a mute point. If you want to learn about dinosaurs why read the bible...that's silly when there are great books of science to read and learn from. One does not negate the other. You would not take an English Lit book to your math class would you?

These questions become foolish when trying to speak to someone abut God. Never argue with a fool. They will beat you with experience.