Apollyon/Abaddon the other theory

[DavidT]

Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Rev 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
Rev 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Rev 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
Rev 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
Rev 9:7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
Rev 9:8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
Rev 9:9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
Rev 9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

The name Apollyon is only found once by name in Rev 9:11. If you notice in Rev 9:1 John is given the vision of a star that has fallen from heaven unto the earth and was given the key to the bottomless pit. Angels in scripture are often called stars in heaven, Job 38:7; Rev 1:16, 20; 2:1; 3:1; 12:1.

Apollyon/Abaddon is a Hebrew and Greek word which means destruction/destroyer as we see God used this angel in Exodus 12:23; 1 Chronicles 21:15-18; 1 Corinthians 10:10; Hebrews 11:28; Rev 9:11.

The angel who is called Apollyon/Abaddon in Rev 9:11 was sent by God for His purpose to have this angel open the pit and rule over these locust as they were commanded not to kill any man, but to only torment them to where they would want to die, but could not. This angel according to Rev 9:11 was never previously bound/imprisoned in the pit, but was the angel of the bottomless pit. Many think that since the name means destroyer in the Hebrew that this is an evil angel that Satan uses in Rev 9 at the 5th trumpet. If this was an evil angel why would Satan use him to torment those who are already his own who refuse to repent and turn back to God?

This is not the beast of out of the sea or out from the earth in Rev 13. What is being restrained for now is the mystery of who the son of perdition is who is already working iniquity in the world, but many are yet blinded to who it is that is causing a falling away from truth, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12.

I strongly disagree, and I've been seeing that doctrine of men you are pushing being spread around the forums. It is a false doctrine of men.

The 'king' that is the "angel of the bottomless pit" there in Rev.9, which is also called Apollyon, which is where the idea of 'perdition' comes from in the Greek, is about SATAN himself. He is that king over the bottomless pit, and he is to ascend out of that bottomless pit in the last days to kill God's "two witnesses" in Jerusalem for the end.

Thus no believer in Jesus Christ should be confused about that being SATAN himself that is over the coming locust army that are to come and sting those NOT sealed with God's seal by The Holy Spirit. And the reason for that is simple also; because God's Word constantly... warns believers in Christ about the coming false-Messiah at the end of this world, to not fall away to that one, but wait for Christ's coming afterwards. It reveals that not all 'believers' will remain faithful waiting for Christ's future coming, but will instead fall away to that false-Messiah instead!

Thus the coming locust army at the end is not just going to 'sting' the wicked; they will sting many deceived believers also! And what is that 'stinging' of Rev.9 by the locusts? Where does it originate? It originates out of their MOUTHS like the Rev.9 Scripture says. That means WORDS, LIES that create deception. But deception to whom? To that Wicked one, Satan himself, who is coming as the fake-Messiah to Jerusalem to play GOD.

And by the way, Satan is NOT bound yet today (see 1 Peter 5:8). Satan won't be 'bound' in his prison pit until Lord Jesus returns at the end of this world.

 

[for_his_glory]

I strongly disagree, and I've been seeing that doctrine of men you are pushing being spread around the forums. It is a false doctrine of men.

The 'king' that is the "angel of the bottomless pit" there in Rev.9, which is also called Apollyon, which is where the idea of 'perdition' comes from in the Greek, is about SATAN himself. He is that king over the bottomless pit, and he is to ascend out of that bottomless pit in the last days to kill God's "two witnesses" in Jerusalem for the end.

Thus no believer in Jesus Christ should be confused about that being SATAN himself that is over the coming locust army that are to come and sting those NOT sealed with God's seal by The Holy Spirit. And the reason for that is simple also; because God's Word constantly... warns believers in Christ about the coming false-Messiah at the end of this world, to not fall away to that one, but wait for Christ's coming afterwards. It reveals that not all 'believers' will remain faithful waiting for Christ's future coming, but will instead fall away to that false-Messiah instead!

Thus the coming locust army at the end is not just going to 'sting' the wicked; they will sting many deceived believers also! And what is that 'stinging' of Rev.9 by the locusts? Where does it originate? It originates out of their MOUTHS like the Rev.9 Scripture says. That means WORDS, LIES that create deception. But deception to whom? To that Wicked one, Satan himself, who is coming as the fake-Messiah to Jerusalem to play GOD.

And by the way, Satan is NOT bound yet today (see 1 Peter 5:8). Satan won't be 'bound' in his prison pit until Lord Jesus returns at the end of this world.

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

The evil that God has created are His righteous judgements that come upon those who are not obedient to His commands. It's like that of the10 plagues in the book of Exodus as Pharaoh oppresses Israel while taken them into captivity as even though God gave him a chance to let them go he refused so God's punishment came against Egypt.

The same with many battles we read of in the OT that came against God's people as all is done in righteous judgement of God to show He is the Great I Am, Exodus 3:10-15.

So will it also be in the end of days.

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

The evil that God has created are His righteous judgements that come upon those who are not obedient to His commands. It's like that of the10 plagues in the book of Exodus as Pharaoh oppresses Israel while taken them into captivity as even though God gave him a chance to let them go he refused so God's punishment came against Egypt.

The same with many battles we read of in the OT that came against God's people as all is done in righteous judgement of God to show He is the Great I Am, Exodus 3:10-15.

 

[DavidT]

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

The evil that God has created are His righteous judgements that come upon those who are not obedient to His commands. It's like that of the10 plagues in the book of Exodus as Pharaoh oppresses Israel while taken them into captivity as even though God gave him a chance to let them go he refused so God's punishment came against Egypt.

The same with many battles we read of in the OT that came against God's people as all is done in righteous judgement of God to show He is the Great I Am, Exodus 3:10-15.

So will it also be in the end of days.

I find that many brethren don't really understand what that Isaiah 45:7 about God creating evil, is actually about. Yes, it does mean He creates calamities and conditions in order to show His Glory and Power. However, God is not actually the 'author' of evil; He isn't the original author of evil, Lucifer is.

In Ezekiel 28, God gives a parable using the flesh title of the "king of Tyrus" put for Lucifer back in the previous world prior to Adam and Eve. Per that parable, at one time when God originally created Lucifer he was perfect in his ways, until iniquity was found in him (i.e., Lucifer rebelled against GOD coveting His throne which was Lucifer's original job to guard as a 'covering cherub').

So in that world before this 2nd one we have been in, God's creation was perfect, no sin, no evil, until Lucifer rebelled. A problem many brethren have is not understanding about that previous 1st world earth age. Most believe that God's original creation is about this 2nd world earth age we've been in since Genesis 1:3. The Genesis 1:1 verse is that old 1st earth age when God made His perfect creation in the beginning. At Genesis 1:2 He ended that old world with a flood, which that verse with tohu va bohuw ("without form, and void") actually means 'a waste and undistinguishable ruin'). So between verses 1 and 2, is an undetermined amount of time before Lucifer rebelled, and then when he rebelled and God ended that old world and brought today's 2nd one.

And because of Lucifer's rebellion, having brought sin and death for this present 2nd world earth age, God will USE those things for His Purpose during this 2nd earth age. When His future new heavens and a new earth world comes, a future 3rd world earth age, those things will never happen again, all wickedness and evil, and even death and sin, all destroyed.

 

[hawkman]

Thus the coming locust army at the end is not just going to 'sting' the wicked; they will sting many deceived believers also! And what is that 'stinging' of Rev.9 by the locusts? Where does it originate? It originates out of their MOUTHS like the Rev.9 Scripture says. That means WORDS, LIES that create deception. But deception to whom? To that Wicked one, Satan himself, who is coming as the fake-Messiah to Jerusalem to play GOD.

Give me the verse in Rev. 9 that talks about the mouth of the locusts . Do you see a problem ?

 

[DavidT]

Give me the verse in Rev. 9 that talks about the mouth of the locusts . Do you see a problem ?

These are the verse, but I see no problem with it. The Rev.12:15 verse also confirms that waters AS a flood come out of the serpent's (Satan) mouth.

Rev 9:17-19
17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
KJV

Even their "tails" that 'sting' (symbolically) represents LIES that cause deception. God doesn't do monsters, so the descriptions of those locusts is all symbolic. God is simply using the locust and scorpion in nature as to how... these men, priests, do their attacking at the end causing deception through LIES.

Rev 9:7
7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
KJV

Faces of men, because those locusts are about actual men.

God first warned us about these locusts in the Book of Joel about the end of this world. He said they represent "a nation", meaning a certain group of people.

 

[DavidT]

So another one of my posts was moved, just because I mention about Lucifer's original rebellion in the old world, the 1st world earth age prior to this 2nd one we are in today. Some call that idea about a previous world earth age the 'Gap Theory', trying to say it isn't Biblical, yet it is very Biblical, it's just that it is rarely taught in today's Church systems. Yet many pastors are familiar with it, they just are prevented from teaching it by their Church 'system' they are under.

So this topic is not some "Other Theory", which I find is a very Negative Label, a false label designed to sway my Christian brethren from even reading this Biblical teaching.

 

[Hidden In Him]

So this topic is not some "Other Theory", which I find is a very Negative Label, a false label designed to sway my Christian brethren from even reading this Biblical teaching.

Greetings, David.

Most people tend to check the New Posts tab to see what's new to discuss with people anyway, so there would likely be little drop off in activity, and there's no sin in wishing to discuss Gap Theory if you want to. But it would fall under the heading of Unorthodox Theology in comparison with the traditional Creation theology passed down by the Jews and the early church, so it rightly belongs here.

If you have anything further you would wish to discuss on that, however, please contact staff in the Talk With The Staff forum rather than doing so publicly. Normally things are not discussed on an open thread. Just leaving you a note.

Blessings in Christ,
Hidden in Him

 

[for_his_glory]

I find that many brethren don't really understand what that Isaiah 45:7 about God creating evil, is actually about. Yes, it does mean He creates calamities and conditions in order to show His Glory and Power. However, God is not actually the 'author' of evil; He isn't the original author of evil, Lucifer is.

In Ezekiel 28, God gives a parable using the flesh title of the "king of Tyrus" put for Lucifer back in the previous world prior to Adam and Eve. Per that parable, at one time when God originally created Lucifer he was perfect in his ways, until iniquity was found in him (i.e., Lucifer rebelled against GOD coveting His throne which was Lucifer's original job to guard as a 'covering cherub').

So in that world before this 2nd one we have been in, God's creation was perfect, no sin, no evil, until Lucifer rebelled. A problem many brethren have is not understanding about that previous 1st world earth age. Most believe that God's original creation is about this 2nd world earth age we've been in since Genesis 1:3. The Genesis 1:1 verse is that old 1st earth age when God made His perfect creation in the beginning. At Genesis 1:2 He ended that old world with a flood, which that verse with tohu va bohuw ("without form, and void") actually means 'a waste and undistinguishable ruin'). So between verses 1 and 2, is an undetermined amount of time before Lucifer rebelled, and then when he rebelled and God ended that old world and brought today's 2nd one.

And because of Lucifer's rebellion, having brought sin and death for this present 2nd world earth age, God will USE those things for His Purpose during this 2nd earth age. When His future new heavens and a new earth world comes, a future 3rd world earth age, those things will never happen again, all wickedness and evil, and even death and sin, all destroyed.

I never said God is the author of evil and there has only been one world that God created, not two. Satan, Lucifer or what ever one calls this fallen angel was set in the garden of Eden before the creation of man and there is where this angel fell when iniquity was found in within him, Ezekiel 28:11-19.

 

[DavidT]

I never said God is the author of evil and there has only been one world that God created, not two. Satan, Lucifer or what ever one calls this fallen angel was set in the garden of Eden before the creation of man and there is where this angel fell when iniquity was found in within him, Ezekiel 28:11-19.

The Isaiah 45:7 presents the God created evil idea, and that is how many brethren tend to understand it, which is basically assuming that God is the author of evil when He is not. That... was my point I wanted others to understand. So I was not attacking you.

As for your 'theory' that God created Satan when He placed him in the Garden of Eden at the time of Adam and Eve, that is nowhere written, but is only assumed. By time Satan appears in the time of Adam and Eve, he is already in his role as adversary, showing that he had already rebelled against God and had fallen.

So I don't know what you do with Bible Scripture like Ezekiel 28 where God uses the "king of Tyrus" when actually speaking of the anointed cherub Satan that He was in His Garden of Eden, and that God had originally created him perfect in his ways. You can try... and just pass that Scripture off using some vain excuse, but no-flesh born king of Tyrus was ever in God's Garden of Eden. God is pointing directly to Satan in that Scripture, and even speaks of how He is going to destroy him.

Nor do I care or not if you believe the Gap idea of Genesis 1. It is God's Word, you just haven't understood it yet.

 

[for_his_glory]

The Isaiah 45:7 presents the God created evil idea, and that is how many brethren tend to understand it, which is basically assuming that God is the author of evil when He is not. That... was my point I wanted others to understand. So I was not attacking you.

Thank you.

As for your 'theory' that God created Satan when He placed him in the Garden of Eden at the time of Adam and Eve, that is nowhere written, but is only assumed. By time Satan appears in the time of Adam and Eve, he is already in his role as adversary, showing that he had already rebelled against God and had fallen.

This is not what I said. I said that what is written in Ezekiel 28 about the king of Tyrus is a dual reference to Satan in whom God placed in the garden of Eden to care for it until iniquity was found in him. It wasn't king Tyrus that was placed in the garden as God had already closed it off from man. This was way before the creation of Adam and Eve as it was Satan that worked through the serpent to deceive them as the animals were created before Adam and Eve. Genesis 1:20-27

So I don't know what you do with Bible Scripture like Ezekiel 28 where God uses the "king of Tyrus" when actually speaking of the anointed cherub Satan that He was in His Garden of Eden, and that God had originally created him perfect in his ways. You can try... and just pass that Scripture off using some vain excuse, but no-flesh born king of Tyrus was ever in God's Garden of Eden. God is pointing directly to Satan in that Scripture, and even speaks of how He is going to destroy him.

Again, I never said king Tyrus was ever in the garden. Please read what I write.!!!

Nor do I care or not if you believe the Gap idea of Genesis 1. It is God's Word, you just haven't understood it yet.

I'm not getting into the gap theory with you as for one thing it has nothing to do with Apollyon/Abaddon.