Hi all,
I suppose this is the place where one come to defend their understanding of the Scriptures, and what they have to say to us. Apologetics: the religious discipline of defending religious doctrines through systematic argumentation and discourse.
So, I've been involved in a discussion on the matter on another board and I thought that the 'Apologetics' threads would be a better place for the discussion. My effort is to show that we can defend the account in the Scriptures of the literal understanding of what those words, in either English or Hebrew, say. There is a reasonable defense. Without having to settle with a bunch of different understandings that now exist.
So, I think to start with we do need to agree that there is a truth. Whether or not we can find it or know it from the evidences that we have, there is an ultimate truthful account of 'how' all that we see came to exist before our eyes today. There is a truth to 'how' we find ourselves now living in the year 2024 upon the earth playing on our various devices. That while we may throw out and discuss a dozen different ways that each of us 'thinks' that everything that is before our eyes got here, while those varying accounts may not be true, there is a truth to answer that 'how'.
Also, this discussion is not necessarily for those who find it totally irrelevant as to our belief and understanding of this subject, although it is the very foundation of the beginning of our God creating His written testimony to us of 'who' He is and all that He has done for us. I am not offering this matter up as a matter of salvation. The Scriptures teach that we all grow in our faith and Paul gently warns us not to be careless with those whose faith is weak. From that, I believe that we may often find ourselves at a different place in our gaining of the knowledge of God. But I further believe that it is through the teaching of sound doctrine, that the full truth and scope of the living word of God come to us.
Finally, I invite each participant to seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit in the matter. Jesus has told us that it is his job to bring us all truth.
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In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” So, God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good. Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good.
And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.
And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so. God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
What defines a day?
A day is the length of time that it takes a planetary body to make one complete rotation upon its axis. So that for any ball shape, if you were to make a dot mark at some spot, the time it takes to turn the ball around on that same plane until the dot gets back to its original starting point... a day has passed.
I contend that God knows what the word day means to us living on the earth. I contend that there is a purpose for His including in His description to us that each day... consisted on an evening and a morning. A singular evening and singular morning. Each day. Have you considered that 'full rotational days' upon the earth is how God measures time to us throughout His testimony to us. Have you considered that God is counting those days when He is determining things to happen on the earth. It seems to me that God started time in this realm of His creating that we might have life, by announcing the first day, then the second day, then the third day, etc., until we get here in 2024 and God has counted off about 1 billion 300 million days at this point. But it all started with God setting the earth in an empty black universe and as it made its first rotation... day one passed. And now we're nearly 1.3 billion days from that day. Each and every one of them, from first to last, being marked as one evening and one morning.
I believe that God knows what the word day means to us, as a time counting device. I believe that God gave Adam and Eve the knowledge in their minds at the moment of their breathing their first breath to communicate in a language with one another and the children who were to come. Adam and Eve, unlike each of us, did not spend a dozen formative years at the foot of a parent or in some school, teaching them how to speak in a language. God gave them that knowledge as a part of His creating them. I also believe that God's repeating at least two more times in His revelation to us that they were days and not ages or some other descriptor of eons of time, would indicate that He fully meant to say and mean 'day'. For us to understand that time reference just as we understand it every day of our lives. A day is one full rotation of the planet earth upon its axis. It is so today. It has been so for centuries. And I believe that it has always been since the first day that we are told about by our Creator.
I suppose this is the place where one come to defend their understanding of the Scriptures, and what they have to say to us. Apologetics: the religious discipline of defending religious doctrines through systematic argumentation and discourse.
So, I've been involved in a discussion on the matter on another board and I thought that the 'Apologetics' threads would be a better place for the discussion. My effort is to show that we can defend the account in the Scriptures of the literal understanding of what those words, in either English or Hebrew, say. There is a reasonable defense. Without having to settle with a bunch of different understandings that now exist.
So, I think to start with we do need to agree that there is a truth. Whether or not we can find it or know it from the evidences that we have, there is an ultimate truthful account of 'how' all that we see came to exist before our eyes today. There is a truth to 'how' we find ourselves now living in the year 2024 upon the earth playing on our various devices. That while we may throw out and discuss a dozen different ways that each of us 'thinks' that everything that is before our eyes got here, while those varying accounts may not be true, there is a truth to answer that 'how'.
Also, this discussion is not necessarily for those who find it totally irrelevant as to our belief and understanding of this subject, although it is the very foundation of the beginning of our God creating His written testimony to us of 'who' He is and all that He has done for us. I am not offering this matter up as a matter of salvation. The Scriptures teach that we all grow in our faith and Paul gently warns us not to be careless with those whose faith is weak. From that, I believe that we may often find ourselves at a different place in our gaining of the knowledge of God. But I further believe that it is through the teaching of sound doctrine, that the full truth and scope of the living word of God come to us.
Finally, I invite each participant to seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit in the matter. Jesus has told us that it is his job to bring us all truth.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” So, God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good. Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good.
And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.
And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so. God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
What defines a day?
A day is the length of time that it takes a planetary body to make one complete rotation upon its axis. So that for any ball shape, if you were to make a dot mark at some spot, the time it takes to turn the ball around on that same plane until the dot gets back to its original starting point... a day has passed.
I contend that God knows what the word day means to us living on the earth. I contend that there is a purpose for His including in His description to us that each day... consisted on an evening and a morning. A singular evening and singular morning. Each day. Have you considered that 'full rotational days' upon the earth is how God measures time to us throughout His testimony to us. Have you considered that God is counting those days when He is determining things to happen on the earth. It seems to me that God started time in this realm of His creating that we might have life, by announcing the first day, then the second day, then the third day, etc., until we get here in 2024 and God has counted off about 1 billion 300 million days at this point. But it all started with God setting the earth in an empty black universe and as it made its first rotation... day one passed. And now we're nearly 1.3 billion days from that day. Each and every one of them, from first to last, being marked as one evening and one morning.
I believe that God knows what the word day means to us, as a time counting device. I believe that God gave Adam and Eve the knowledge in their minds at the moment of their breathing their first breath to communicate in a language with one another and the children who were to come. Adam and Eve, unlike each of us, did not spend a dozen formative years at the foot of a parent or in some school, teaching them how to speak in a language. God gave them that knowledge as a part of His creating them. I also believe that God's repeating at least two more times in His revelation to us that they were days and not ages or some other descriptor of eons of time, would indicate that He fully meant to say and mean 'day'. For us to understand that time reference just as we understand it every day of our lives. A day is one full rotation of the planet earth upon its axis. It is so today. It has been so for centuries. And I believe that it has always been since the first day that we are told about by our Creator.
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