Are bona fide Xtians the only ones with a TRUE conscience?

[Soma-Sight]

Are bona fide Xtians the only ones with a TRUE conscience?

What I mean here is....

You have saints in other religions. Good people that strive to do right by God as they see Him/It/Her/ whatever.

Are they just deluding themselves and being led by Satan? Can Satan allow or even push for good works in a Muslim/Sihk?

Are the only people on the planet with a "conscience" those that have recieved the Holy Spirit through some exoteric baptism or understanding of basic doctrine?

Because after all.... if your not saved, your a child of Lucifer.

 

[belovedwolfofgod]

You got Abraham. Enoch.

God's Law is written on our hearts, and Jeremiah says that if we seek Him with all our hearts we will find him.

 

[ChristineES]

Please stop writing Christians with an x. I find it a bit disturbing. (I am only asking you, not telling you)

 

[Rick W]

Please stop writing Christians with an x. I find it a bit disturbing. (I am only asking you, not telling you)

:smt023


Anyway,

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

 

[mutzrein]

All people irrespective of their religion (or lack of) make decisions based on their conscience. Most live according to whatever their conscience allows. There are some with seared consciences & some with clear consciences. There are some whose consciences are attuned by their beliefs & environment, some whose consciences are attuned by the Holy Spirit which dwells within them.

 

[thessalonian]

Please stop writing Christians with an x. I find it a bit disturbing. (I am only asking you, not telling you)

Actually from a traditional point of view it isn't all that bad. X is an abreviation of the greek word Χριστος which is Christ. However, I am not all that sure that is the context in which he intends it.

 

[thessalonian]

Romans 2

[14] When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.
[15] They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them
[16] on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

This is the conscience of man such that it is common that all men know that it is not right to take someone's wife or kill or steal. All men attempt in some fashion at some point in their lives to come to know God. But the problem as mutz pointed out is that our consciences are seared by our sins and by our bondage to sin. They can be healed by God's word and God's grace.

Ps.119
[15] I will meditate on thy precepts,
and fix my eyes on thy ways.
*
*
[23] Even though princes sit plotting against me,
thy servant will meditate on thy statutes.
*
*
*
[48] I revere thy commandments, which I love,
and I will meditate on thy statutes.

This meditating upon the commands of God heals the conscience. So all men do have conscience but it is in various forms of disrepair. Even those who are Christian do not yet have fully restored consciences but are being healed over time by the great physician.

PS. For those who think the commandments were abolished do you also think this psalm is no longer valid? Just a question I've always had.

 

[Soma-Sight]

God's Law is written on our hearts, and Jeremiah says that if we seek Him with all our hearts we will find him.

Good answer!

So where does this leave out pagan Brothers and Sisters?

 

[mutzrein]

Thess

Nice of you to support a point I made but . . . I wouldn’t support it using the scripture that you have used. This scripture does not talk about all men. It is about those who have the law written on their hearts – these are people who are born of the spirit of God.

You see this passage of scripture is a description of God’s judgment. It describes what happens to mankind and it makes a distinction between 3 groups. Those who sin apart from the law (those to whom God has not called to be His children), those who sin under the law (those who believe that righteousness is by the law), and those who have the law written on their hearts (those who are born again).

It is only those who are born again whose consciences bear witness to the requirements of the law since it is they alone who have it written on their hearts.

 

[Soma-Sight]

It is about those who have the law written on their hearts – these are people who are born of the spirit of God.

So only Christians have a moral consciousness that is bona fide?

 

[peace4all]

Between the ID and the Superego, we all get our Ego..

If your superego doesnt develope properly during childhood, your ego will not be as good of a balance as it is supposed to be, and you will have a psychotic (opr neurotic, depends on your choosing of words) disorder.

ALl people have diffrent levels, some at which they care too much about what others think, and they are" pushovers" and others that care nothing about others, and are murderers, etc.

A "true conscience" is just a made up term for a particualr ego that matches, or closely resembles the creator of the phrase "true conscience"

 

[mutzrein]

It is about those who have the law written on their hearts – these are people who are born of the spirit of God.

So only Christians have a moral consciousness that is bona fide?

I am referring to a point made by Thess and the way that he used the scripture - not to the moral conscience of all people.

Of course those who are not born again make moral decisions based on their conscsience.

 

[gingercat]

So only Christians have a moral consciousness that is bona fide?

According to the Bible, yes. That's why Jesus tells us to make disciples of all nations.

 

[thessalonian]

Thess

Nice of you to support a point I made but . . . I wouldn’t support it using the scripture that you have used. This scripture does not talk about all men. It is about those who have the law written on their hearts – these are people who are born of the spirit of God.

You see this passage of scripture is a description of God’s judgment. It describes what happens to mankind and it makes a distinction between 3 groups. Those who sin apart from the law (those to whom God has not called to be His children), those who sin under the law (those who believe that righteousness is by the law), and those who have the law written on their hearts (those who are born again).

It is only those who are born again whose consciences bear witness to the requirements of the law since it is they alone who have it written on their hearts.

I do not agree with your interpretation on this one and the evidence is clear with regard to the many people I have met , even non-christian who clearly know God's laws. Paul was speaking of gentiles in the past who had the law written on their hearts.

 

[thessalonian]

God's Law is written on our hearts, and Jeremiah says that if we seek Him with all our hearts we will find him.

Good answer!

So where does this leave out pagan Brothers and Sisters?

I leave it up to the judge. It is simply my place to give them Christ.

 

[mutzrein]

Thess

Nice of you to support a point I made but . . . I wouldn’t support it using the scripture that you have used. This scripture does not talk about all men. It is about those who have the law written on their hearts – these are people who are born of the spirit of God.

You see this passage of scripture is a description of God’s judgment. It describes what happens to mankind and it makes a distinction between 3 groups. Those who sin apart from the law (those to whom God has not called to be His children), those who sin under the law (those who believe that righteousness is by the law), and those who have the law written on their hearts (those who are born again).

It is only those who are born again whose consciences bear witness to the requirements of the law since it is they alone who have it written on their hearts.

I do not agree with your interpretation on this one and the evidence is clear with regard to the many people I have met , even non-christian who clearly know God's laws. Paul was speaking of gentiles in the past who had the law written on their hearts.

I guess it is just as well that evidence is not based on weight of numbers.

If Paul was speaking of Gentiles in the past who is he talking about here?

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

 

[thessalonian]

Why did you leave out the reference. Let me guess. :-?

 

[GundamZero]

God made all men in his own image.
Each person had the capacity to follow God, and not knowing good or evil had nothing to do with it. But when we chose to be God when we wanted to be in his place, our hearts instinctively understood what was good and what was evil. Anything robbing God of His status in our lives is sin. The act of rebellion against God demonstrates that we know how to do good and how to do evil.

Whether or not we know God, we know who he is. We know by "his eternal power and divine nature...Being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse"(Romans 1). All mankind knows what is good and evil. Everyone has a conscious capable of understanding the Lord's rightful position in their life. Everyone knows that they are missing something. The lack of fulfillment is why everyone, the great and small, constantly seek a way to fill the void. Some seek money. Some seek power, intelligence, fame, or fortune. Some set up religions with intricate requirements to make it to God. But God said otherwise. God shows us by his perfect and just nature that we aren't God and have no power nor authority to reach his glory. But God loves us because he made us and put his image in us. We cannot reach God, but, praise Jesus, God seeking us.

God knows what is good and what is not. We, being his sons and daughters, are being taught what is good and holy and pleasing. We ought not debate this matter with such generality, because each and every person is capable of receiving the Son, at any moment, anywhere. If anynone will seek after the truth in earnest, the Truth, a who not a what, will seek them. Christ, who is the way the truth and the life, will then run to them, and show them through the Holy Ghost, who is their conscience.

Each man and woman can except God. False gods, idolatry, and selfishness are conscious decisions to REJECT God. Our job is to help people realize that they are making things to hard for themselves.

As for "saints" in religions of the world. Though they are not Sons and Daughters of God in Christ Jesus, the Lord is still able to use Satan's deceptions to do good to people. All good things come from God, and nothing good comes from Satan.

We must not scrutenize them, but ourselves. We must follow Christ so that we may prove by our lives that our Savior lives, and that he is the only way to the Father.

So God made it simple. That is you believe in your heart that Jesus Christ is Lord, and your Lord, and you confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord, you will be saved.

And that's all I have to say about that.

 

[ChristineES]

I really hestitated to post this, but...

When Adam was created, God breathed into his nostrils to bring him to life. God gave Adam a spirit, something the animals did not receive. All humans have a spirit. It is our spirit that gives us our conscience. So I think all people have a conscience, but some just don't listen to it. Some have "blocked it off" so to speak, like for example, Ted Bundy may have done, as in sociopathology.
I think that even non-believers can use their conscience. But since they don't believe in God, they will not have all the same rules (I certianly hope you all understand what I mean by that). They would not follow the Ten Commandments, for example, or follow Jesus' teachings. They can know what is right and wrong, be taught by others.
So I say here, yes, I think that a non-believer can have a conscience.

 

[ArtGuy]

Actually from a traditional point of view it isn't all that bad. X is an abreviation of the greek word Χριστος which is Christ. However, I am not all that sure that is the context in which he intends it.

If you want to be anal, it should actually be "Xians", not "Xtians". Anyway, I doubt SS is trying to use it to annoy Christians, if that's the implication. I am, though, amused by the number of people who seem to take offense at it.