Are civil authorities under the authority of God or Satan?

[Gary]

Are civil authorities under the authority of God or Satan?

Civil authorities are under the authority of those appointed over them.

 

[Choir Loft]

Are civil authorities under the authority of God or Satan?

The following verses indicate that Satan governs the world:

Satan offered all of the kingdoms of the world because they belonged to him; Jesus never disputed that these kingdoms were under Satan:
Mat 4:8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. Mat 4:9 And he said to Him, "All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me."

Satan is the “ruler of this world”:
John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.
John 14:30 I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me.
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. John 16:8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: … John 16:11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

Satan is the “god of this age”:
2Co 4:4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.

Satan is the “prince of the power of the air”:
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience.

The whole world lies “under the sway” of Satan:
1Jn 5:19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.

If Satan controls this world, then surely he must also control the governing authorities. How could he offer "all the kingdoms of the world and their glory” (Mat 4:8) to Jesus if he did not control the rulers and authorities of these kingdoms. If he could submit the authority of these kingdoms to Jesus, then surely he controls their governors and authorities.

However, this seems to be incompatible with Paul’s letter to the Romans, which states that the civil authority is “appointed by God” (Rom 13:1), equates the civil authority with God’s “ordinance” (Rom 13:2) and states that the civil authority is “God's minister” (Rom 13:4):

Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
Rom 13:2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.
Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same.
Rom 13:4 For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

We are therefore to support the authorities by paying taxes (Rom 13:6-7) and praying for our rulers (1Ti 2:1-2):
Rom 13:6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God's ministers attending continually to this very thing.
Rom 13:7 Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.
1Ti 2:1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men,
1Ti 2:2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence.

Aren’t Paul’s letters to the Romans and Timothy in contravention of the larger scriptural message that the kingdoms and governments of this world are under the authority of Satan?

*******

The answer to this riddle won't be found in another nationalistic interpretation of Romans 13. It's found in Genesis 3.

The question is authority and Genesis 3 reveals that in the beginning God gave authority to man.

But the ultimate con artist came along and usurped divine authority unto itself. The fall of man, therefore, wasn't simply a repast of bad fruit or even of disobedience - it was a flagrant display of hatred toward God by Adam and Eve and their willful voluntary surrender of their authority, the authority God gave to them, unto the devil. From that time until the resurrection of Jesus Christ, all earthly authority rested in the hands of the Kingdom of Satan.

At the cross, a war both spiritual and political was engaged against the enemy of God and Man. The spiritual basis for victory in that war was concluded on Good Friday when Jesus said it was finished, but the political war rages on. The evidence for both assertions is a record of historic fact and the testimony of the saints since that time. The Bible records in several books how the war will end, but the time is not yet.

Until then, those who follow Christ are called to stand shoulder to shoulder with the saints of the past to continue the battle.

Onward Christian soldiers - until the battle is over and the war is won. All glory to the King of Kings who is Leader of all Leaders and who determines the destiny of nations who chose to follow Him - and those who chose not to.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Civil authorities are under the authority of those appointed over them.

GOD still have ALL POWER! in his own time, and we are so glad, aren't you?

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Are civil authorities under the authority of God or Satan?

The following verses indicate that Satan governs the world:

Satan offered all of the kingdoms of the world because they belonged to him; Jesus never disputed that these kingdoms were under Satan:
Mat 4:8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. Mat 4:9 And he said to Him, "All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me."

Satan is the “ruler of this world”:
John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.
John 14:30 I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me.
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. John 16:8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: … John 16:11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

Satan is the “god of this age”:
2Co 4:4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.

Satan is the “prince of the power of the air”:
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience.

The whole world lies “under the sway” of Satan:
1Jn 5:19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.

If Satan controls this world, then surely he must also control the governing authorities. How could he offer "all the kingdoms of the world and their glory” (Mat 4:8) to Jesus if he did not control the rulers and authorities of these kingdoms. If he could submit the authority of these kingdoms to Jesus, then surely he controls their governors and authorities.

However, this seems to be incompatible with Paul’s letter to the Romans, which states that the civil authority is “appointed by God” (Rom 13:1), equates the civil authority with God’s “ordinance” (Rom 13:2) and states that the civil authority is “God's minister” (Rom 13:4):

Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
Rom 13:2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.
Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same.
Rom 13:4 For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

We are therefore to support the authorities by paying taxes (Rom 13:6-7) and praying for our rulers (1Ti 2:1-2):
Rom 13:6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God's ministers attending continually to this very thing.
Rom 13:7 Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.
1Ti 2:1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men,
1Ti 2:2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence.

Aren’t Paul’s letters to the Romans and Timothy in contravention of the larger scriptural message that the kingdoms and governments of this world are under the authority of Satan?

But of all in heaven and on earth, GOD have given ALL POWER TO HIS SON, therefore, let him/Satan be ruler, until he has no more dominion. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Matthew 28:18

 

[Free]

FREE WROTE:

"Satan no longer rules the world. John 12:31 and John 16:11, which you quoted, show this to be the case. So, no, there is no problem with what Paul has written."​

Initially, I thought I could reconcile the apparent contradiction between the verses that indicate that Satan is the “ruler of this world,” “god of this age” and “prince of the power of the air” with those that indicate that the civil authority is “appointed by God” as God’s “minister” by holding that prior to the death and resurrection of Jesus on the cross, Satan was the ruler of the world. He had dominion over man, who was through sin condemned. Prior to his death and resurrection, Jesus repeated many times over that Satan was the “ruler of this world,” but he also said that Satan, the “ruler of this world,” will be “cast out” (John 12:30) and is “judged” (John 16:11). I thought the apparent contradiction could be reconciled by reading Jesus’s words as referring to the day that was coming in which He would vanquish sin through the resurrection. On that day, Satan would be “cast out” and would lose his dominion over the world; Jesus would be given all authority. This is in accordance with Jesus’s parting words: “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth” (Mat 28:18). Thus, through the death and resurrection, Satan’s authority over the world was transferred to Jesus. In the post-resurrection epoch, the civil authority is “appointed by God” (Rom 13:1) and is “God's minister” (Rom 13:4), to which we must pay taxes (Rom 13:6-7) and for which we are to pray (1Ti 2:1-2).

And that is about right.

But this explanation is inadequate for the following reasons:

- It fails to address Paul’s Epistles, which were written after Jesus’s death and resurrection and yet refer to Satan as the “god of this age” (2Co 4:4) and state that the whole world lies under his “sway” (1Jn 5:19);​

​

It doesn't fail to address that at all. How many living Gods/gods are there in the Bible?

​

- The argument assumes that right after the resurrection of Christ, all governments would have been redeemed and restored to Christ (in contrast to pre-resurrection governments that were still under the power of Satan). Thus, after the resurrection, governments could receive Christians’ support through taxes (Rom 13:6-7) and prayer (1Ti 2:1-2). However, the reality is that for 300 years after the resurrection of Christ, the government that ruled over the Christians was a brutal empire that persecuted the Christians and fed them to the lions. Satan was still in a sense the “ruler” of governments. The resurrection may have immediately expelled Satan’s power over individual believers, but governments remained under the sway of Satan; they continued to do all kinds of wicked acts.

There is no such assumption. Jesus clearly states many times that the Kingdom of God was at hand. The Kingdom of God was inaugurated through the death and resurrection of Christ. Does that mean everything suddenly changes or that we ought to have heaven on earth? Not at all. The whole point is that Christians are to be about Kingdom business, bringing the message of the gospel and the ministry of reconciliation to the world. This means slow change.

So as I stated previously, there is no contradiction between Jesus and Paul, rightly understood.

 

[jmt356]

Thank you Chessman for your responses. I think they are strong and any further comments I have are insubstantial and do not merit further discussing.

FREE WROTE:
“It doesn't fail to address that at all. How many living Gods/gods are there in the Bible?”

RESPONSE
Are you implying that the “god” referred to in Paul’s epistles (e.g., the “god of this age” (2Co 4:4), under whose “sway” the whole world lies (1Jn 5:19)) refers to God rather than to Satan? If so, you are taking a view contrary to the commentaries of the orthodox Christian commentaries. If not, then we must concede that my attempted reconciliation, which states that prior to the resurrection, Satan had ultimate authority, but afterwards, God did, does not hold up, since Paul wrote after the resurrection that the world continues to be under the “sway” of Satan (1Jn 5:19), the “god of this age” (2Co 4:4). We cannot thus state that prior to the resurrection, Satan had authority over civil authorities and after the resurrection, Jesus had authority.

Here is what I believe to be the best reconciliation of the verses that indicate that God has ultimate authority over governments and those that state that Satan is the “ruler of this world” (John 12:30-31) and “god of this age” (2Co 4:4):

Satan’s Control over the World Is Limited to the Sphere of Sin; God Holds Ultimate Control over Satan and Civil Authorities

Paul writes in 2 Corinthians and Ephesians:
- Satan is the “god of this age” (2Co 4:4) (Paul).
- Satan is the “prince of the power of the air” (Eph 2:2) (Paul).
These verses are not stating that Satan is the ruler of civil authorities or appoints them. Rather, he is reiterating what John writes in 1 John: “the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one” (1Jn 5:19). In other words, Satan has “sway” or influence over the whole world. This influence is comprised of tempting the world into sin and corrupting all of creation with the consequences of sin (e.g., sickness, pain, suffering , death).

Paul then writes in Colossians and Romans:
- Jesus is “the head of all principality and power” (Col 2:10) (Paul).
- The civil authority is “appointed by God” as God’s “minister,” bearing “the sword” to exact vengeance on he “who practices evil” (Rom 13:1-4) (Paul).
- Christians are to pay taxes to and pray for the civil authority (Rom 13:6-7; 1Ti 2:1-2) (Paul).

These verses, in contrast, refer to true civil authority, not just the power to tempt people into sin. They make clear that all authority ultimately resides in Christ and that God uses the civil authority as His minister to exact justice.

This explanation still raises the empirical evidentiary problem: if civil authorities are God’s “ministers,” then how can we explain their evil deeds? In response to this problem, we must remember that the Scriptures never claim that civil authorities are without corruption. They only state that the civil authorities are “appointed by God” (Rom 13:4). Yet like every other part of creation, civil authorities are subject to the corrupting influence of sin. They have, for example, abused their divinely-mandated authority, committing atrocities against their own people and aggressing against other nations. Rather than using their sword to punish evil, they commit evils. Thus, like the rest of creation, the civil authorities are under Satan’s “sway” (1Jn 5:19).

Just because governments commit evil does not mean that they are not “appointed by God” as God’s “minister” (Rom 13:1-4). God can use the evils of governments to realize His plans. For example, God allowed Pharaoh’s evils and hardened heart so that He would send plagues to make it known that “there is none like [God] in all the earth” (Exo 9:14) and to “show [God’s] power” so that His name “may be declared in all the earth” (Exo 9:16). Moreover, as Chessman pointed out, God allowed the Roman government to torture and crucify Jesus, an innocent man, in order to set into motion His resurrection and the redemption of all of mankind.

 

[chessman]

if civil authorities are God’s “ministers,” then how can we explain their evil deeds

I like your explanation. But it's a toughie. Can you imagine the internal struggles a Christian experienced under the rule of the German Third Reich? I recommend a book by Eric Metaxas which biographies one such man's struggles.

Bonhoeffer: A Biography by Eric Metaxas http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003GY0K48/ref=cm_sw_r_udp_awd_axn7ub17A7G0V

 

[ReginaForbes]

I prefer to view satan as an unreliable narrator- as Jesus said- the devil is a liar and the father of lies (John 8:44). So any time satan opens his mouth remember that it's probably a LIE.
Satan: "I'm the god of this world"
Me: "pffffft whatever, Jesus defeated you on the cross so I think NOT! LOSER!"

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Thank you Chessman for your responses. I think they are strong and any further comments I have are insubstantial and do not merit further discussing.

FREE WROTE:
“It doesn't fail to address that at all. How many living Gods/gods are there in the Bible?”

RESPONSE
Are you implying that the “god” referred to in Paul’s epistles (e.g., the “god of this age” (2Co 4:4), under whose “sway” the whole world lies (1Jn 5:19)) refers to God rather than to Satan? If so, you are taking a view contrary to the commentaries of the orthodox Christian commentaries. If not, then we must concede that my attempted reconciliation, which states that prior to the resurrection, Satan had ultimate authority, but afterwards, God did, does not hold up, since Paul wrote after the resurrection that the world continues to be under the “sway” of Satan (1Jn 5:19), the “god of this age” (2Co 4:4). We cannot thus state that prior to the resurrection, Satan had authority over civil authorities and after the resurrection, Jesus had authority.

Here is what I believe to be the best reconciliation of the verses that indicate that God has ultimate authority over governments and those that state that Satan is the “ruler of this world” (John 12:30-31) and “god of this age” (2Co 4:4):

Satan’s Control over the World Is Limited to the Sphere of Sin; God Holds Ultimate Control over Satan and Civil Authorities

Paul writes in 2 Corinthians and Ephesians:
- Satan is the “god of this age” (2Co 4:4) (Paul).
- Satan is the “prince of the power of the air” (Eph 2:2) (Paul).
These verses are not stating that Satan is the ruler of civil authorities or appoints them. Rather, he is reiterating what John writes in 1 John: “the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one” (1Jn 5:19). In other words, Satan has “sway” or influence over the whole world. This influence is comprised of tempting the world into sin and corrupting all of creation with the consequences of sin (e.g., sickness, pain, suffering , death).

Paul then writes in Colossians and Romans:
- Jesus is “the head of all principality and power” (Col 2:10) (Paul).
- The civil authority is “appointed by God” as God’s “minister,” bearing “the sword” to exact vengeance on he “who practices evil” (Rom 13:1-4) (Paul).
- Christians are to pay taxes to and pray for the civil authority (Rom 13:6-7; 1Ti 2:1-2) (Paul).

These verses, in contrast, refer to true civil authority, not just the power to tempt people into sin. They make clear that all authority ultimately resides in Christ and that God uses the civil authority as His minister to exact justice.

This explanation still raises the empirical evidentiary problem: if civil authorities are God’s “ministers,” then how can we explain their evil deeds? In response to this problem, we must remember that the Scriptures never claim that civil authorities are without corruption. They only state that the civil authorities are “appointed by God” (Rom 13:4). Yet like every other part of creation, civil authorities are subject to the corrupting influence of sin. They have, for example, abused their divinely-mandated authority, committing atrocities against their own people and aggressing against other nations. Rather than using their sword to punish evil, they commit evils. Thus, like the rest of creation, the civil authorities are under Satan’s “sway” (1Jn 5:19).

Just because governments commit evil does not mean that they are not “appointed by God” as God’s “minister” (Rom 13:1-4). God can use the evils of governments to realize His plans. For example, God allowed Pharaoh’s evils and hardened heart so that He would send plagues to make it known that “there is none like [God] in all the earth” (Exo 9:14) and to “show [God’s] power” so that His name “may be declared in all the earth” (Exo 9:16). Moreover, as Chessman pointed out, God allowed the Roman government to torture and crucify Jesus, an innocent man, in order to set into motion His resurrection and the redemption of all of mankind.

Good post above
Satan/The Devil/Lucifer has just a short time to deceive in these end times, Therefore, rejoice, you heavens, and you who dwell in them.
But woe to you, earth and sea, for the Devil has come down to you in great fury,
for he knows he has but a short time.” Revelation 12:12.