[_ Old Earth _] Are dinosaurs pre-historic?

[Barbarian]

Re: Did a meteor from outerspace kill off the dinosaurs?

The evolutionists also pay no mind to the fossil human and dino footprints in the same strata.

I've been there (Paluxy River) and looked at the "man tracks." They look nothing like man tracks. These were dubunked by YE creationists from Loma Linda U., BTW.

And to cite the Institute for Creation Research:
"We need tracks in the middle of flood deposits like we need a hole in the head."

 

[lordkalvan]

Re: Did a meteor from outerspace kill off the dinosaurs?

In other words the fact that they depict dinos and man coexisting means that they are fake,

They are most likely fake because the site has neither been verified nor excavated systematically. They are most likely fakes because the advanced civilization that supposedly created them left nothing else behind. They are most likely fakes because there is no evidence that humans and dinosaurs co-existed (excluding the birds, that is). they are most likely fakes because a lot of money can be made from gullible people by supplying them with counterfeited artifacts of a lost civilization.

The evolutionists also pay no mind to the fossil human and dino footprints in the same strata.

Because there are none. You should check out the articles linked from this site: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/paluxy.html

 

[John]

Re: Did a meteor from outerspace kill off the dinosaurs?

I will never believe anything from Talkorigins

 

[Crying Rock]

Re: Did a meteor from outerspace kill off the dinosaurs?

Hey John.

I'm a creationist (old earther), so no conflict of interest here: both ICR and AIG don't recommend using Paluxy as evidence of dinos and humans existing together-

http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=art ... iew&ID=255

http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-ans ... e-dont-use

CR

 

[lordkalvan]

Re: Did a meteor from outerspace kill off the dinosaurs?

I will never believe anything from Talkorigins

This does not lead to confidence in your readiness to consider the value of evidence on its own merits. If you want to stick your fingers in your ears, by all means do so. These commentaries on the Ica Stones have nothing to do with TO:

http://www.skepdic.com/icastones.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ica_stones

http://www.badarchaeology.net/data/ooparts/ica.php

 

[Imagican]

Re: Did a meteor from outerspace kill off the dinosaurs?

Neither.

What killed the dinosaurs? Did man hunt them for food?

The flood killed of most, years later they were hunted for food by humans until the surviving populations died off until many years later they were only talked about in history/legend etc. People called them Dragons, almost every ancient civilization has some mention of dragons (dinosaurs).

Interesting food for thought. Google the "Inca stones" They actually depict humans and dinos walking together.

Ok John,

IF the dinosaurs were killed off by 'the flood'. Please explain the DIFFERENT layers of fossil record. Not that a flood may have deposited 'different layers', but WHY are there DIFFERENT animals in DIFFERENT layers? And each layer NOT having ANY of the fossils of the OTHER layers? The flood only lasted for about a year. How is it that in ONE year, so MANY different layers of DIFFERENT sepcies we 'layed down' by 'the flood'?

And you aren't seriously offering that men and T-Rex's 'walked together on this planet'? Are you?

Blessings,

MEC

 

[John]

Re: Did a meteor from outerspace kill off the dinosaurs?

Ok John,

IF the dinosaurs were killed off by 'the flood'. Please explain the DIFFERENT layers of fossil record. Not that a flood may have deposited 'different layers', but WHY are there DIFFERENT animals in DIFFERENT layers? And each layer NOT having ANY of the fossils of the OTHER layers? The flood only lasted for about a year. How is it that in ONE year, so MANY different layers of DIFFERENT sepcies we 'layed down' by 'the flood'?

And you aren't seriously offering that men and T-Rex's 'walked together on this planet'? Are you?

Blessings,

MEC

The animals simply got caught up in the flood waters and sediment and got buried.

And yes i am suggesting that man and the T-rex walked together, God made all the land animals on one day, Trex is in fact a land animal, unless you think God is lying.

 

[VaultZero4Me]

Re: Did a meteor from outerspace kill off the dinosaurs?

John,

Saying "Either you think God is a liar, or you accept creationism." is a very unfortunate false dichotomy. One that has been propelled by YEC's such as Hovind and Ham. Though I am not of faith, I grew up around many kids who were forced fed this false dichotomy in school (I went to an independent baptist school).

A few of these class mates I have kept in touch with, were hit hard when they went to college, and were exposed to all of the science that they were deprived of growing up. This shook at least one's faith pretty hard. Eventually he has come to the conclusion that it is not God or science, since in his view, God created science. He allows them to live in harmony.

Now, I know you have a lot of issues with some scientific conclusions, and thats a good thing. Science is about questioning the accepted theories. That is how new theories were formed, and old ones falsified. Students are supposed to question the teachers.

In short, challenge evolution with evidence. Even though I am not of your faith, I see the serious consequences of putting the acceptance of evolution in theological terms, rather than scientific terms.

Its not God or evolution, as millions of Christians harmonize the two.

I can not see how evolution would ever threaten faith, because a designer who could create such a powerful and elegant force would seem to me to be that much more awesome.

 

[VaultZero4Me]

Re: Did a meteor from outerspace kill off the dinosaurs?

And to your point about flood deposits, the question is how is it possible for a global flood to deposit the remains in such an order, that it indicates progression of life.

Each layer corresponds to time periods in evolution. There are no large scale deposits that indicate Dinos and Humans ever coexisted. If there were, evolution of man and dinos would be shaken to its core. The person who could give substantial evidence for the coexistence of dinos and man would win the nobel prize.

There has not been such evidence found. I am not saying it is not possible, but very unlikely with science's current understanding of evolution. Be wary of people who claim to have such evidence, because it would not just cause a few articles on YEC websites. It would have such large consequences that there would be truck loads of researchers clambering to analyze the data.

 

[VaultZero4Me]

Re: Did a meteor from outerspace kill off the dinosaurs?

BTW YEC scientists understand this problem and how much of a hurdle this is.

There have been a few theories, such as bone density causing some to sink further in the sediment, proposed by YEC scientist to explain this huge problem for them. None of which have stood up to real scrutiny by peers.

 

[John]

Re: Did a meteor from outerspace kill off the dinosaurs?

And to your point about flood deposits, the question is how is it possible for a global flood to deposit the remains in such an order, that it indicates progression of life.

That is the thing, it does not indicate a progression of life.

Some evolutionary scientists assert that if human bones aren’t found with dinosaur bones, then dinosaurs and man didn’t live together.[43][44] Creation scientists point out that this is a false assumption; if human bones aren’t found buried with dinosaur bones, it simply means they weren't buried together.[43]

Evolutionists point out that radiometric dating of rocks containing dinosaur bones shows them to have formed between 65 million years ago and 250 million years ago, whereas rocks with human bones in them are dated as being much newer (less than 5 million years old). Young Earth Creationists believe that these methods of dating rocks provide false results, and therefore reject this argument.

Creationists note that the fossil record contains mainly marine organisms and that a small sliver of the fossil record contains vertebrates and thus assert that we shouldn't expect to find many human fossils at all.[43] Moreover, as the biblical Flood would be a marine catastrophe, it would be expected that marine fossils would dominate the fossil record. This is in fact what we find.[45]

Approximately 70% of the Earth is covered in salt water which would also explain the dominance of marine fossils. In addition, creation scientists assert there may have been a small pre-flood human population and that massive amounts of flood sediment are why we haven’t found human fossils in pre-biblical flood sediments.[45] Also, creation scientists point out that we don't find human bones buried with coelacanths yet humans and coelacanths coexist today.

 

[VaultZero4Me]

Re: Did a meteor from outerspace kill off the dinosaurs?

Some evolutionary scientists assert that if human bones aren’t found with dinosaur bones, then dinosaurs and man didn’t live together.[43][44] Creation scientists point out that this is a false assumption; if human bones aren’t found buried with dinosaur bones, it simply means they weren't buried together.[43]

This is not what is meant. We are talking inside the different layers of the earth that corrospond to time periods. Not dino being buried with humans.

There are no human bones found in the same layers with dino bones.

Creationists note that the fossil record contains mainly marine organisms and that a small sliver of the fossil record contains vertebrates and thus assert that we shouldn't expect to find many human fossils at all.[43] Moreover, as the biblical Flood would be a marine catastrophe, it would be expected that marine fossils would dominate the fossil record. This is in fact what we find.[45]

Why would marine animals be predicted to dominate from the flood? I would assume that land would be the greatest area that would be disturbed and flash bury land animals.

Wouldn't a world wide flood suggest that the majority of the animals to die would be land animals? Is this not indicated by the God commanding Noah to procure land animals to preserve species? Needing to get land animals means that God knew that all land animals would be destroyed. Noah not needing to get marine life, shows that God new a lot of marine life would survive.

I am not well versed with fossil creation and all of the factors that lead to it, so I could be missing a key point here.

Approximately 70% of the Earth is covered in salt water which would also explain the dominance of marine fossils. In addition, creation scientists assert there may have been a small pre-flood human population and that massive amounts of flood sediment are why we haven’t found human fossils in pre-biblical flood sediments.[45] Also, creation scientists point out that we don't find human bones buried with coelacanths yet humans and coelacanths coexist today.

Again, it is not really meant that two species need to be found fossilized in the same spot, just the same layers.

These excerpts seem to be suggesting that it people expect them to just be buried in the same spot. While being buried in the same spot would also mean in the same layer, it is a fallacy to suggest they need to be in the same spot. Just the same layers.