Are guns now part of our worship at church?

[Rollo Tamasi]

its what the world has come to and us Christians live in it
in the past one did not need a gun for protection at church
in the past we did not lock our doors of our house when we left
our values have not changed we have to adapt to the world to stay safe

I disagree
Our values have changed and they continue to change.

 

[GodsGrace]

What life?
I gave that to Jesus a long time ago.
It's his life.
He has taken the responsibility to protect me.
I don't worry about it anymore.

Don't you ever go to a Dr??
Does this mean you don't trust God?
Of course not!
You're just doing what you have to in order to help yourself.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Don't you ever go to a Dr??
Does this mean you don't trust God?
Of course not!
You're just doing what you have to in order to help yourself.

But if the doctor doesn't help me, I don't shoot him.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Don't you ever go to a Dr??
Does this mean you don't trust God?
Of course not!
You're just doing what you have to in order to help yourself.

All your questions and all your posts, do you ever talk about church and trusting God or do you just continue to attack my beliefs?

 

[GodsGrace]

But if the doctor doesn't help me, I don't shoot him.

That's good!

 

[GodsGrace]

All your questions and all your posts, do you ever talk about church and trusting God or do you just continue to attack my beliefs?

No attacking.
Discussing.
It's your thread.
Start one on church...

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

No attacking.
Discussing.
It's your thread.
Start one on church...

Lol, this one is about church, lol.....

 

[jasonc]

It really depends on who is carrying. We have a Deputy of the Sherriff's office who is a member of our congregation. Now, even though I have never seen it, I am pretty confident in stating that he carries, even while at church. He looks at as his duty to protect the congregation to the extent he can, so he generally will sit in the last row.

Other people who could carry would be people who are very familiar with firearms and use them on a regular basis, whether hunting, or going to the range.

We do live in a fallen world and are allowed by God to defend ourselves, and others, if the situation calls for it.

one of my old churches was like that., three or more law agents who carried in church.

 

[GodsGrace]

Lol, this one is about church, lol.....

Oops!
Sorry if I misunderstood the OP.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Oops!
Sorry if I misunderstood the OP.

What?
You thought I started a thread that was about me?

 

[jasonc]

So we have guns and we have doctors and we have everything we need.
When do we depend on God?
And for what?

these are not perfect nor a guarantee. just because you see a doctor for cancer treatments, doesn't mean you will be healed. just because you pray for safety doesn't mean you will get it. God might have the plan of suffering in mind or death to bring you home. the eternal is where the faithful will win.

 

[Roro1972]

I disagree
Our values have changed and they continue to change.

I value my kin even in church if I have to and the world is making it a have to not me

 

[Runner]

The Bible is full of verses from cover to cover that tell us to trust in God instead of trusting in man.
When we arm our churches with gunners, are we trusting in God or trusting in man?

I had a 12-gauge shotgun when my fiance (now wife) arrived from Belarus. She was horrified that a Christian would feel the need to have a gun for protection, so I gave it to a non-Christian friend. "God is our protection," she insists. I agree - although as the folks in the recent church shooting learned, "God's protection" doesn't inevitably mean we are protected from all harm.

The notion of guns in a church does strike me as bizarre and inconsistent with the way a Christian is supposed to think and live. As a practical matter, I doubt the consequences would be much prettier if every other member of the congregation had a gun. There might be fewer victims at an incident like the one yesterday, but my guess is there would be a lot more incidents overall. At most of the churches I have attended, an armed congregation would be a frightening idea.

There will NEVER be an incident where the gun nuts cannot insist with some plausibility that the answer is "more guns." "Armed churches" strikes me as perhaps the ultimate example of Christians conforming to the world.

 

[jasonc]

I had a 12-gauge shotgun when my fiance (now wife) arrived from Belarus. She was horrified that a Christian would feel the need to have a gun for protection, so I gave it to a non-Christian friend. "God is our protection," she insists. I agree - although as the folks in the recent church shooting learned, "God's protection" doesn't inevitably mean we are protected from all harm.

The notion of guns in a church does strike me as bizarre and inconsistent with the way a Christian is supposed to think and live. As a practical matter, I doubt the consequences would be much prettier if every other member of the congregation had a gun. There might be fewer victims at an incident like the one yesterday, but my guess is there would be a lot more incidents overall. At most of the churches I have attended, an armed congregation would be a frightening idea.

There will NEVER be an incident where the gun nuts cannot insist with some plausibility that the answer is "more guns." "Armed churches" strikes me as perhaps the ultimate example of Christians conforming to the world.

why is it that we insist that we only worship there. why not also at your home? is that not also a place of worship. worship is well beyond going to church and reading the bible along with a sermon, and also singing along. its all that we do. from going to work, being a good husband, being a good steward at work. the notion of otherwise is foreign in the torah. teach them when thou risest up and lyest down, when they ask what meaneth thee with these rocks , thou shall not fail to tell them. notice that isn't talking about the church teaching or the priests teaching the kids but the parents telling their story of how God delivered them from Egypt and also into the land.

yet somehow we give up all that in general and expect the church to do that. I know parents that are involved but in general we treat church as the only place to worship when trust me it isn't. its wherever and whenever I feel the need, and also in all that I do.
what saith exodus 20:1 thou shall worship the lord with the thy whole heart, and mind ?

 

[Runner]

why is it that we insist that we only worship there. why not also at your home? is that not also a place of worship. worship is well beyond going to church and reading the bible along with a sermon, and also singing along. its all that we do. from going to work, being a good husband, being a good steward at work. the notion of otherwise is foreign in the torah. teach them when thou risest up and lyest down, when they ask what meaneth thee with these rocks , thou shall not fail to tell them. notice that isn't talking about the church teaching or the priests teaching the kids but the parents telling their story of how God delivered them from Egypt and also into the land.

yet somehow we give up all that in general and expect the church to do that. I know parents that are involved but in general we treat church as the only place to worship when trust me it isn't. its wherever and whenever I feel the need, and also in all that I do.
what saith exodus 20:1 thou shall worship the lord with the thy whole heart, and mind ?

Well, OK, but I'm not sure how my post led to that reply. I haven't been to church five times in the last ten years, so you're preaching to the choir in my case, Worship should be something that permeates one's entire life. To the extent your post is responsive to my post, I can say that I don't have a gun in my home, car or golf bag either.

The fact is, however, that churches are houses of worship, are filled with believers, and are the primary symbol of worship to the non-Christian community. So the notion of them also being armed fortresses strikes me as somewhat bizarre and off-message.

 

[Michael74]

An unidentified resident confronted the gunman after the shooting began, "grabbed his rifle and engaged that suspect," according to Martin....The gunman dropped the rifle and then fled...

The suspect started shooting right through the walls from across the street. Then he went inside, and kept shooting until a combat savvy person returned fire, chasing him away.

 

[jasonc]

Well, OK, but I'm not sure how my post led to that reply. I haven't been to church five times in the last ten years, so you're preaching to the choir in my case, Worship should be something that permeates one's entire life. To the extent your post is responsive to my post, I can say that I don't have a gun in my home, car or golf bag either.

The fact is, however, that churches are houses of worship, are filled with believers, and are the primary symbol of worship to the non-Christian community. So the notion of them also being armed fortresses strikes me as somewhat bizarre and off-message.

in Afghanistan we went to chapel with assigned weapons, with magazine and unloaded. its not bizarre to me. most off duty cops carry and do so in any church as their agencies require them to carry at all times. they knowing the public have no problems. I had a friend who carried his gun everywhere and I asked as I knew the bag he was carrying. he had the weapon with badges and also cuff and zip ties just in case. many a conversations about mp/ law work with him

 

[jasonc]

its a sad statement of society that we are not safe anywhere.

 

[brujaq]

I was at church a while ago on a Wed night when I got an urge to go put my shirt tail in , never before or since .. I walked out to the door and noticed some shadows ducked down behind the church treasurers car , I went out and sure enough I had caught two thieves breaking in to her trunk .. I chased them but I would have felt a lot safer if I had had a weapon . I didn't know what they had but I knew they had a crowbar and tools .. There is no reason that a church cannot appoint a couple trusted church marshals to carry or have easy access to a weapon and with a sign outside with a warning .. I wouldn't think twice about attending such a church .. Whoever doesn't provide for their family is worse than an infidel .. That includes protection ..

 

[jasonc]

I was at church a while ago on a Wed night when I got an urge to go put my shirt tail in , never before or since .. I walked out to the door and noticed some shadows ducked down behind the church treasurers car , I went out and sure enough I had caught two thieves breaking in to her trunk .. I chased them but I would have felt a lot safer if I had had a weapon . I didn't know what they had but I knew they had a crowbar and tools .. There is no reason that a church cannot appoint a couple trusted church marshals to carry or have easy access to a weapon and with a sign outside with a warning .. I wouldn't think twice about attending such a church .. Whoever doesn't provide for their family is worse than an infidel .. That includes protection ..

do keep in mind some because of past mistakes(felons and time served ) can never own a gun, nor might have a mental health issue that prevents them, or just are not of the proper temperament. a cop told a lady once, if you have an anger problem, you better not get a ccl. that one time you act will be too late. my wife has a temper and I warned her about that. I find that I have a problem at times.