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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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Are guns now part of our worship at church?
- Thread starter Rollo Tamasi
- Start date
brujaq
Member
I'm not a felon but if I were would that stop me, and I don't have an anger problem at all but I can get angry . And I haven't been castrated either .. Ha, and if you've ever played church league softball you know there's plenty fire in many Christians .. Nice is nice when you can but right is better imo .. Plus, if I beat my kids for correction I wouldn't think twice dealing with thugs and have ..
For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Romans 13:3-4 KJV
R
Runner
Guest
Those verses are talking about the role of government. Perhaps you can clarify, but I don't see them as relating to the issue of armed churches or of individual Christians carrying guns. Read in context, they might point away from armed churches - i.e., walk your Christian walk and let the authorities to whom God has assigned the protective role perform that role.
by anger I mean to the point of going way off when its not needed. there are those who do have anger issues from ptsd and can be easily pushed into violent responses. If I control you by manipulating you to punch me. imagine if you had a gun and simply shot a man for anger. road rage is coming to mind. I have scared my step daughter in a fit of range though I was never intending to hit her nor harm her.
Sister Christian
Member
The Texas shooter? Was shot twice by a congregant that had a weapon.
You are inside a locked building. That does not make you safe.
Evil finds ways to do its will against the innocent it hunts for sustenance. I would rather have an usher at the back of the church trained in small arms and carrying, than a gunman who shoots first the lock on the door and then enters blasting. Men, women, babies, and children.
One good person putting down evil saves lives. Guns are not the problem. Evil people with guns are the problem.
Is this what church has become? In Texas on Sunday one man said yes. He was loaded for bear and could have killed many more. But he was stopped. By good people with guns.
brujaq
Member
No I'm in pretty good control but there are folks with a problem and I will not lay back and let them harm me, my family or friends .. I look at it as it's for their own good too ..
I was taking about those who have anger issues not you.
Some simply have an anger issue and shouldn't be around guns.
Yes, the verses only apply to police officers who attend church, or other state agents such as army guys attending church in a combat zone.
R
Runner
Guest
OK, gotcha.
brujaq
Member
I was out street witnessing to some Goth teenagers and one asked me if he slapped me would I turn the other cheek, I told him if he was offended at something I said in Jesus name yes I would turn the other cheek BUT if he slapped me because he perceived weakness I pointed and told him I'd backhand him across the road over that sidewalk and up those courthouse steps .. For the next 30 minutes they were asking all kind of bible questions, the Lord was giving me answers before they asked the questions about 5 or 6 kids , they even followed and stopped me when I acted like I was going to leave and I knew they would , I wouldn't be surprised if a couple didn't get saved , we ended up having church ..
R
Runner
Guest
Sometimes evil is obvious, sometimes not. An awful lot of evil has been carried out in the name of "putting down evil." I'd just as soon not have these decisions in the hands of people with guns.
On a small scale, certainly I'd be happy with an usher who had a gun and saved me from a lunatic intruder. But I think the issues are larger than that for a Christian.
A Supreme Court Justice famously said "Hard cases make bad law," meaning that an appealing set of facts can cause an appellate court to ignore the established legal principles in order to reach a desired result, thereby establishing a bad precedent that may wreak havoc in future cases. I believe the same concern should exist here. Arming ushers may seem like the right response the day after an incident like the one in Texas, but what Christian principles are twisted in the process and what will the long-term consequences be for the Christian message?
Guns are a problem. Perhaps not the problem, but a problem. An evil person with a firearm can wreak far more havoc than an evil person with fists, a stick or a knife. People we wouldn't classify as evil have wreaked far more havoc on themselves, their families and society with guns in fits of anger or passion than they would have been able to do without guns.
The actual problem is that American society is now so infested with guns, so firmly in the grip of Gun Insanity, that the only realistic "solution" is "More guns!" It's somewhat like saying the solution to drug addiction is for everyone to become a drug addict. Yeah, that'll work.
dirtfarmer
Member
hello Runner, dirtfarmer here
While I agree with a lot of your post, there are some that seems as if your education is a hindrance and clouds your thought process. Guns are not "a" problem, it is those that own them that is the problem. I have never seen a gun walk into a bank and rob it. It is the person that has the "pistol grip" in his hand that is the problem. If it were common knowledge that everyone owned and carried a gun we would not see as much gun violence. Most people are usually civil when they know or think that it is possible to lose their life. I will agree there are a few rogues that just don't care and are willing to chance that they can kill before being killed.
Check the crime rate in Kennesaw, Ga. When they passed a law that everyone must own a gun their crime rate dropped. The difference between a drug addict and a gun owner is that the drug addict is always under the influence of drugs, but the gun owner is not always using his gun.
Sister Christian
Member
I don't believe we can conflate drug addition with the gun's discussion. Drug addicts don't push through the door of churches and start throwing Quaaludes, killing almost all of the congregation.
I read this here in a thread I can't recall the title of however, it was brilliant in its simplicity.I'm paraphrasing from memory but, we have to remember the first murder in history was committed with a rock.
Hatred, envy, jealousy, greed, was the motivation there. All faults of character, sin, wickedness. All that caused and became motive for one brother to destroy the life of another. And for what?
Guns are not the problem. I think it is easy to simplify the equation by casting blame on an inanimate object that would never do harm if someone did not pick it up and pull the trigger.
Where guns are illegal for the most part violent crimes still happen. As we read in Great Britain where guns are for the most part outlawed for the common public, trucks are the means of weapon used for mass murder. As in other countries. And recently in our own NYC.
Shall we outlaw trucks?
The church is a building and that is all. People of faith are the actual body of Christ and church that is of utmost sacred temple of God the Father. Shall we sit idle and hope no one comes and kills us? Shall we duck for cover amid screams, gun blasts, and the acrid stench of gunpowder, thinking in those moments of paralyzing fear that it is a good thing we forbid guns in that building on that Sunday?
And if we be congregants together on a Sunday and a terrorist breaks through our doors, shall we think of John 15:13 as we sit at his armed will? "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." Shall that be our collective epitaph when we died unarmed together?
And what if one of our Bibles shall fall to the floor during the carnage? And open unto a book and highlighted passage such as this?
21 When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe; 22 but when one stronger than he attacks him and overcomes him, he takes away his armor in which he trusted and divides his spoil. 23 Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.
I have thought about saving up to purchase a gun and taking gun safety classes. My state allows open carry, so it's not a big deal. (That said, I've gotten a shooting badge in the past and handled BB guns which have basically the same safety rules, so the classes might not even be necessary.)
My main motivation was the thieves targeting us I mentioned earlier in the thread. Particularly, since said thieves are men with criminal backgrounds, some of them known to get violent, and a couple months back I was often home alone. I'm not particularly strong and I'm definitely not going to be able to overpower a guy who wanted to break in and steal my stuff for drug money if not something worse.
Of course, that particular crisis is past, we've taken some measures and they were certainly not immediate fixes, but I think those people know we mean business and will most likely leave us alone now. But did I wish for a more immediate means to protect myself if the worst case scenario happened? Definitely.
My main motivation was the thieves targeting us I mentioned earlier in the thread. Particularly, since said thieves are men with criminal backgrounds, some of them known to get violent, and a couple months back I was often home alone. I'm not particularly strong and I'm definitely not going to be able to overpower a guy who wanted to break in and steal my stuff for drug money if not something worse.
Of course, that particular crisis is past, we've taken some measures and they were certainly not immediate fixes, but I think those people know we mean business and will most likely leave us alone now. But did I wish for a more immediate means to protect myself if the worst case scenario happened? Definitely.
My response to the poll isn't a hard yes or a hard no. If carry in church is legally permitted, tbe church can decide to bring up the matter and put it to a member vote.
