Are guns now part of our worship at church?

[th1b.taylor]

Two swords among eleven disciples isn't much, especially when Jesus knew they would very quickly desert him, each going their own way (most would be without swords). We need to look at the context, as context is king. Jesus tells us precisely why he wanted his disciples to have swords:

Using the logic you are trying to use here of using the scriptures from Luke 22 and updating the armament then for a Church of three hundred we would see men armed with AR-15s stationed inside the Church and at 2 per 11 persons we need about 27. I believe that is a little rsdical, myself.

Luk 22:35 And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.”
Luk 22:36 He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.
Luk 22:37 For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors.’ For what is written about me has its fulfillment.”
Luk 22:38 And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.” (ESV)

It was so that he would be 'numbered with the transgressors.'

Here are some things to consider from Dr. Michael Brown:

'So much for Jesus calling us to turn the other cheek (Matt 5:38-42). So much for Him saying that it is the meek who will inherit the earth, the peacemakers who will be called children of God, and the ones who were persecuted for righteousness who are blessed (Matt 5:5, 9-12). So much for Him teaching that the world would treat us the same way it treated Him (Matt 10:25; John 15:18-20).

So much for Peter writing that we should follow our Savior's example, noting that "when He was reviled, He did not revile in return; when He suffered, He did not threaten" (1 Pet. 2:23). And so much for Paul explaining that "it was granted on behalf of Christ not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake" (Phil. 1:29).'

'Using the logic of some of those who believe that being armed is the key to avoiding persecution, why did the apostles merely pray together for boldness to preach and for miracles to be wrought through Jesus' name when they were threatened (Acts 4:24-31)? Why didn't they plot a strategy of fighting back with their swords? Wasn't this what Jesus was telling them to do in Luke 22?'

https://www.charismanews.com/opinion/in-the-line-of-fire/67982-did-jesus-really-tell-his-disciples-to-buy-swords?utm_source=In the Line of Fire&utm_medium=email&utm_content=subscriber_id:803809&utm_campaign=Blogger - Michael Brown - 2017-10-30[/QUOTE]

 

[jasonc]

How do you know my church is a government church?

Ok,so I bet you.pay cash when irma did damage to your church,unless it's a house church in your county ,which still has the owner paying taxes ,if something goes south his but will eat the law suit and face charges of insurance fraud. They ask if you are using it for business purposes.

 

[jasonc]

Getting back to the OP, God tells us in Ephesians 6:12; "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms".
The Apostle Paul then tells us in verses 13-18 what our weapons and equipment are against these enemies.

I have to ask, do people ever read these verses?
Does anyone take them literally?
Why did God put them in the Bible?
What do they really mean?

In Romans 13, Paul talks about our worldly authorities.
In 13:4b; he says, "He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer".

This is not the job of the believer, to carry guns and kill.
It's a job for the authorities.

Isn't it time to put the guns away and start living God's Word?

People don't sue our churches, they wouldn't Sue if a pedophile was teaching Sunday school

I.remember when kids brought their hunting guns to schools and showed then around before gun free zones,and also before schools became prisons .

So a large church who owns a school,property they rent ,and a nursery shouldNT hire armed guards to escorts money to the bank.? I believe these exist.possibly one in my town
I hate we have to but it's the world ,are we going to suggest that the church not have property insurance and simply allow the church and pastorage to be taken away from it during a lawsuit?

Paul says allow your self to be sued.lawyers are sin.see where I can take this?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Many Christians today are very caught up in the world and they don't understand how Jesus and Paul taught us to be separate from the world.
It is easy to see why there will be no revival in the church anymore as few people seem to want to draw that close to God.
The Kingdom of God?
Can anyone tell me what it is?
Does anyone live there?
Or is it a myth?

 

[Free]

Using the logic you are trying to use here of using the scriptures from Luke 22 and updating the armament then for a Church of three hundred we would see men armed with AR-15s stationed inside the Church and at 2 per 11 persons we need about 27. I believe that is a little rsdical, myself.

Nope. You can't get that from what I have said. What I have given is straight from Scripture and shows that Jesus likely did not mean that the disciples should go out and arm themselves, and most certainly not in self-defence from persecution. That would go against everything else he taught in reference to violence and one's enemies.

 

[jasonc]

Getting back to the OP, God tells us in Ephesians 6:12; "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms".
The Apostle Paul then tells us in verses 13-18 what our weapons and equipment are against these enemies.

I have to ask, do people ever read these verses?
Does anyone take them literally?
Why did God put them in the Bible?
What do they really mean?

In Romans 13, Paul talks about our worldly authorities.
In 13:4b; he says, "He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer".

This is not the job of the believer, to carry guns and kill.
It's a job for the authorities.

Isn't it time to put the guns away and start living God's Word?

The cops off duty in my church or a church unless on a detail are also the authority. If it's a sheriff deputy his jurisdiction is the county,fhp the state .on or of duty they are believers functioning in that authority.

Are you familiar with citizen arrests? Cops outside of their jurisdiction are doing that .they usually dint unless it's violence or an act that can cause bodily harm

 

[jasonc]

Many Christians today are very caught up in the world and they don't understand how Jesus and Paul taught us to be separate from the world.
It is easy to see why there will be no revival in the church anymore as few people seem to want to draw that close to God.
The Kingdom of God?
Can anyone tell me what it is?
Does anyone live there?
Or is it a myth?

See by not having property insurance on property not owned by the church it's a mandate by the bank to protect itself thus against your views.

Nevermind that problem of the law of our state against misuse of property.ie commercial use where it's not allowed,or even zoning against house churches. I have no problem of house churches but again the homeowner will pay for the lawsuit and possibly be charged with a crime

 

[th1b.taylor]

On the contrary, Christians are always ready to go. Those who are Christian in name only (a majority of 'Christians' in the west), are not ready.

I have oft quoted the mid-eighties Barna Group's Survey of the Christian Church when I state that at least 98% of the American Church were proven proved it themselves (it was a double blind survey) not to be saved but I see nothing that you base your statement on and I must wonder why.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Nope. You can't get that from what I have said. What I have given is straight from Scripture and shows that Jesus likely did not mean that the disciples should go out and arm themselves, and most certainly not in self-defence from persecution. That would go against everything else he taught in reference to violence and one's enemies.

Free, I have mentioned this many times and from a Moderator it is really not a good thin to put unspoken words, your words on another. I find it particularly offensive and an unacceptable defense for one's position when they, falsely, charge with words neither spoken, written nor thought. Actually, Jesus informed us that we would be persecuted and yet as I quote the Psalm above, we are not called to watch, as one lady did in the Texas Slaughter, watch her youngsterś face be blown off the skull. You, if you have found any principals from the scriptures, know this is true. I care not if you ever believe it or not, in the passages being discussed, Jesus told His Disciples not to be the sacred offering, as He did. Yes we are to follow Jesus but not there, He said so. Our self sacrifices will not even save our children nor our wives. This conversation is rapidly descending into the Bowels of the earth. This is sad.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Some Christians find it necessary to bad mouth other Christians, and put them down rather than build them up in Christ.
They somehow think what they have to say is so very important.
But how much time do they spend in prayer rather than being caught up in the world?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Our churches are going down the drain.
Soon they will be empty skeletons of a once Spirit filled assembly.
How much time do we have left?

 

[jasonc]

Some Christians find it necessary to bad mouth other Christians, and put them down rather than build them up in Christ.
They somehow think what they have to say is so very important.
But how much time do they spend in prayer rather than being caught up in the world?

If by challengimg an inconsistency in position then it's not what you say.

The law allows for giving citizens Power to defend themselves and others ,how is that not fitting Romans 13? Retired cops can keep their federal carry if they qualify with the current Leo standard.it's harder then a ccl qualification. I take self defense ,I train to fight but prefer not to as opposed to the opposite where when it comes I'm I'll prepared.

 

[jasonc]

Nope. You can't get that from what I have said. What I have given is straight from Scripture and shows that Jesus likely did not mean that the disciples should go out and arm themselves, and most certainly not in self-defence from persecution. That would go against everything else he taught in reference to violence and one's enemies.

Give thy cloak by logical extension means you can't claim property damage ,as you might need more then the standard minimal insurance. Ie job loss ,death will cost your survivor more then 10 grand.I have sued and won.I wish I got more ,but it's settled.

Wreck a beamer with pip and be sued for the rest and loose it all.same logic of persuction,if they want your money ,property ,an insurance company will minimize their damage claims via denying injury claims in either settlement or court.

I settled in.thar manner .not my fault,the mad man wanted to kill may not be doing against the faith but of out hate to a person .it's happened here.pastors sister was killed by her husband during choir practice.she alone died and he tool his life next .

 

[th1b.taylor]

Many Christians today are very caught up in the world and they don't understand how Jesus and Paul taught us to be separate from the world.
It is easy to see why there will be no revival in the church anymore as few people seem to want to draw that close to God.
The Kingdom of God?
Can anyone tell me what it is?
Does anyone live there?
Or is it a myth?

The Kingdom f god is all around you, in the Spiritual Realm, many simply refuse to live in it

 

[th1b.taylor]

Our churches are going down the drain.
Soon they will be empty skeletons of a once Spirit filled assembly.
How much time do we have left?

Only until we hear the Trump of God declare His reurn, for thew Lost Man, for the Christian it is seven years less.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Only until we hear the Trump of God declare His reurn, for thew Lost Man, for the Christian it is seven years less.

7 years less?
That's another make believe doctrine for a dead church.

 

[jasonc]

7 years less?
That's another make believe doctrine for a dead church.

Tribulation idea,of which I don't buy.

 

[Northman]

Yet for decades in america churches have been burned,members killed.the black churches were often burned by the kkk.

A cop must carry at all times on duty ,a traffic stop can turn deadly.a man was sentenced for just that recently

I was just letting you know the possibility of why what you are saying and the reasoning of it falling on seemingly unsympathetic ears. Not saying they were, just that you might think so. You get worked up so easy it's hard to tell.

 

[Free]

Free, I have mentioned this many times and from a Moderator it is really not a good thin to put unspoken words, your words on another. I find it particularly offensive and an unacceptable defense for one's position when they, falsely, charge with words neither spoken, written nor thought.

I agree. Who has done this?

Actually, Jesus informed us that we would be persecuted and yet as I quote the Psalm above, we are not called to watch, as one lady did in the Texas Slaughter, watch her youngsterś face be blown off the skull. You, if you have found any principals from the scriptures, know this is true.

Know what is true?

I care not if you ever believe it or not, in the passages being discussed, Jesus told His Disciples not to be the sacred offering, as He did. Yes we are to follow Jesus but not there, He said so. Our self sacrifices will not even save our children nor our wives. This conversation is rapidly descending into the Bowels of the earth. This is sad.

"Jesus told His Disciples not to be the sacred offering." Where did Jesus say this, exactly?

 

[Free]

Give thy cloak by logical extension means you can't claim property damage ,as you might need more then the standard minimal insurance. Ie job loss ,death will cost your survivor more then 10 grand.I have sued and won.I wish I got more ,but it's settled.

Wreck a beamer with pip and be sued for the rest and loose it all.same logic of persuction,if they want your money ,property ,an insurance company will minimize their damage claims via denying injury claims in either settlement or court.

I settled in.thar manner .not my fault,the mad man wanted to kill may not be doing against the faith but of out hate to a person .it's happened here.pastors sister was killed by her husband during choir practice.she alone died and he tool his life next .

I'm not sure what you're saying and what it has to do with what I posted.