Are guns now part of our worship at church?

[jasonc]

In the English language, you make no sense.
In Scripture, I live by it.
It's not a use it as I need it type of life style.

So your pastor doesn't have his Sunday school teachers finger printed and a background check?he doesn't carry insurance on for the church?

Law suits require a court.what saith the bible on fraud?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

So your pastor doesn't have his Sunday school teachers finger printed and a background check?he doesn't carry insurance on for the church?

Law suits require a court.what saith the bible on fraud?

I have no idea
I don't get involved with business

 

[evenifigoalone]

I know since I often work with children's classes in my church I have to legally get a background check every year

 

[jasonc]

I have no idea
I don't get involved with business

So you go to a church who has to protect itsself per state law and say it's wrong for them now to pay for security of able?

In our state 711 because they don't allow guns must have two employees at all times. The state will force churches to do this with insurance and background checks.I couldn't be a janitor without a back ground check 20 years ago

 

[jasonc]

I know since I often work with children's classes in my church I have to legally get a background check every year

Yup ,I have to have one every so often simply because I read meters in schools.I wish my security clearence which is much more difficult to get would count.

A simple duI will rescind a clearence

 

[Creative]

Apples and oranges. Jesus’s purging the Temple of sin (no evidence he even hit anyone) has absolutely no relevance to someone walking into a church with the intent to injure and kill.

Mat 5:11 "Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. (ESV)

Rom 12:14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them. (ESV)

1Pe 2:23 When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly. (ESV)

If we are to “bless those who persecute” us, why should the thought of using guns even cross our minds?

I think you mistook my meaning, my comment had to do with the poll question, "should all churches be armed with guns" - my comment was not to imply it is okay for someone to come into the church to murder worshippers.

In Exodus 22 the law is that if a thief breaks into a house at night and is struck dead the defender is not guilty of bloodshed.

 

[Creative]

And how many non family members are in your congregation, or flock?

Are you trying to make some point ? I don't see where you are going with this or what you are implying.

 

[Free]

One thing I've noticed whether in Vietnam or here at home, when a Criminal or any other civilian decides to shoot you, there is no time to negotiate and you can have fifty Guns in twenty-five cars in the Parking Lot, in the trunk and if one of the gun owners could get get to the vehicle I and and anyone else would be able to exp[end a couple to 600 rounds and have anywhere fro fifty to a couple of hundred dead and ready for the funeral.

In times of war it is wise to be prepared and folks this is the very thing I and a half million other young men fought to keep out of here but you, like it or not, you at war with the Forces of Evil! Will you watch your loved ones be slaughtered as we did Hogs and Cattle n the farm? Children, it is time to wake up or to die.

Personally, I will welcome death once I get past the pain of it but I must ask, are you, also as Home Sick as I am to go home to be with the Father and His Son...today?

So what does this have to do with guns in the church or persecution of Christians?

 

[jasonc]

So what does this have to do with guns in the church or persecution of Christians?

Just curious,so if a cops agency requires him to carry everywhere and its a offense they enforce by firing that they cant be allowed into the church?Yes some agencies will fire officers for not carrying off duty, cuffs,and badge and gun at all times.

That is the only way in some churches who have cops as members will you have a gun free church.I knew who all carried as they asked me about what we use in the guard,and I knew the cops before I went to some churches.I never broadcasted it nor thought much of a member carryimg in church.I told him to check the ccl law on carrying in church.

 

[Free]

I think you mistook my meaning, my comment had to do with the poll question, "should all churches be armed with guns" - my comment was not to imply it is okay for someone to come into the church to murder worshippers.

In Exodus 22 the law is that if a thief breaks into a house at night and is struck dead the defender is not guilty of bloodshed.

I’m quite certain I understood your meaning. Your comment was in direct response to someone else, not the poll. You were responding to this quote:

‘There will NEVER be an incident where the gun nuts cannot insist with some plausibility that the answer is "more guns." "Armed churches" strikes me as perhaps the ultimate example of Christians conforming to the world.‘

My comment had nothing to do with thinking you were implying “it is okay for someone to come into the church to murder worshippers.“ Your response strongly suggests that you are basing an argument for having guns in church on the fact that Jesus made a whip of cords and used it in the Temple. My response is that Jesus’s having made a whip of cords in the Temple has no bearing on whether or not there should be guns in the church; it does not support our position.

 

[Free]

Just curious,so if a cops agency requires him to carry everywhere and its a offense they enforce by firing that they cant be allowed into the church?Yes some agencies will fire officers for not carrying off duty, cuffs,and badge and gun at all times.

That is the only way in some churches who have cops as members will you have a gun free church.I knew who all carried as they asked me about what we use in the guard,and I knew the cops before I went to some churches.I never broadcasted it nor thought much of a member carryimg in church.I told him to check the ccl law on carrying in church.

That is an exception to the rule and each cop has to make up his or her mind as to what the Bible says and who they want to follow.

General self-defence is one thing, but the Bible seems to make clear that we don’t respond in kind when we are being persecuted for being followers of Christ.

 

[jasonc]

That is an exception to the rule and each cop has to make up his or her mind as to what the Bible says and who they want to follow.

General self-defence is one thing, but the Bible seems to make clear that we don’t respond in kind when we are being persecuted for being followers of Christ.

How is that the an exception when a church pays Cops to direct traffic?

A cop using your argument Shouldbt stop murder of christians by atheists?

Calling 911 to send a cop for an active shooter is no different. Cops on or of duty have arresting powers,there's limits on the jurisdiction but per law if it's life or limb in all 50 and territories they must act and arrest.

 

[Sister Christian]

That is an exception to the rule and each cop has to make up his or her mind as to what the Bible says and who they want to follow.

General self-defence is one thing, but the Bible seems to make clear that we don’t respond in kind when we are being persecuted for being followers of Christ.

I'm very much hoping I misunderstand your last remarks there. Being the OP links to the recent Texas church massacre, are you saying that , in that case as an example, it would have been wrong for the Christian's present in the church to shoot back?

 

[Creative]

I’m quite certain I understood your meaning. Your comment was in direct response to someone else, not the poll. You were responding to this quote:

‘There will NEVER be an incident where the gun nuts cannot insist with some plausibility that the answer is "more guns." "Armed churches" strikes me as perhaps the ultimate example of Christians conforming to the world.‘

My comment had nothing to do with thinking you were implying “it is okay for someone to come into the church to murder worshippers.“ Your response strongly suggests that you are basing an argument for having guns in church on the fact that Jesus made a whip of cords and used it in the Temple. My response is that Jesus’s having made a whip of cords in the Temple has no bearing on whether or not there should be guns in the church; it does not support our position.

I didn't recall that I responded to that quote when I answered you. But looking to what I was responding too, I don't see that it matters much which one I was responding to.

Of course no one wants guns in church for defense or otherwise. But to post that people should just sit there and wait to be shot to death by a maniac and do nothing is silly.

As for Jesus not using the whip, it says Jesus chased them out of the temple with it, whether he struck anyone or not seems irrelevant.

 

[Creative]

gun nuts

Would you mind giving your definition of a gun nut ?

 

[Free]

How is that the an exception when a church pays Cops to direct traffic?

That has absolutely nothing to do with what we are discussing.

A cop using your argument Shouldbt stop murder of christians by atheists?

I never said that no one shouldn't stop the murder of Christians.

 

[Free]

I'm very much hoping I misunderstand your last remarks there. Being the OP links to the recent Texas church massacre, are you saying that , in that case as an example, it would have been wrong for the Christian's present in the church to shoot back?

You understood me. It's just something that I have argued from Scripture to get people to think more from a Scriptural perspective. The problem is, as has been pointed out by another user, that from what I've seen in these forums, most "Christians" in the US would put the right to bear arms above Scripture.

 

[Free]

Of course no one wants guns in church for defense or otherwise. But to post that people should just sit there and wait to be shot to death by a maniac and do nothing is silly.

This is what is known as a straw man. I never said that everyone "should just sit there and wait to be shot to death by a maniac and do nothing."

As for Jesus not using the whip, it says Jesus chased them out of the temple with it, whether he struck anyone or not seems irrelevant.

The threat of violence and the carrying out of violence are two different things. We can't even say, from Scripture, that Jesus threatened violence.

 

[jasonc]

That has absolutely nothing to do with what we are discussing.


I never said that no one shouldn't stop the murder of Christians.

Ok,so you undermine your position and yes the church shouldn't have guns but shouldn't reject cops,cops directed traffic and forcing them to stop blessing them that persecute you..

Lethal force will be met by the same.I see no difference in having a ccl ,armed guards,cops in church .

 

[Northman]

Cops on or of duty have arresting powers,there's limits on the jurisdiction but per law if it's life or limb in all 50 and territories they must act and arrest.

It's different where he lives. RCMP policy doesn't allow it generally. They require some special permission. They can act but don't have to. Their jurisdiction spans thousands of miles and some very far from their homes have acted, unarmed. The entire idea of armed folks in church up here is going to be an alien concept, cop or not.