[_ Old Earth _] Are Humans Unique?

[Pard]

So, it would seem to me that, for evolution to make sense humans cannot be have unique (or any more unique than any other species are between one another) traits that differentiate them from other species. Are humans unique?

It would seem to me the answer is "yes, humans are unique". Which other species of animal has complex languages and many hundreds of them? Which other species has the brain development to not only support the spoken word but the written word? Which other species has the mental ability to take simply tools and create complex tools? Which other species creates vastly unique and complex cultures?

I could go on, however I'm really tired of the listing already...

So please answer this question. I probably will just sit back and watch what unfolds, so don't take my silence as uncaring.

 

[Green Man]

Good evening Pard[smile].
Yes, humans are unique in many ways.....for primates, anyway.
Those traits you listed are shared by a good many other animals, though. Did you know this?
Dolphins have a far more complex language than ours, they and elephants, Chimps, and many bird species[like Corvids]can create and use tools, a pod of Porpoises has a 'vastly complex and unique culture'[much of what you mentioned as unique human traits sound rather subjective and vague to me.].
What do you mean by having brain development to "support the written and spoken word"? Just to have religious faith?

 

[Pard]

In psychology you learn that any part of our brain can pretty much handle any task (with a few noteworthy exceptions, of course). Now, although any part of our brain can do many tasks, certain areas of the brain are developed for this. One such part of our brain (and I forget the name) is very well developed for understanding the written word. It's hardwired to read, basically. This is why you and I can read so well. We don't read the whole word, our brains pick the correct word based on the context and the first few letters. This is why we can read misspelled words very easily and it is why we often can predict the wording of a sentence before we read it in its entirety.

That is what I meant by that phrase.

Sorry if my unique ideas were vague. I was just listing some general ideas off of the top of my head. How about our hairless-ness? Is that unique? Most other mammals are pretty hairy, or they have a diesel hide.

How about our relative weak nature? We are pretty much helpless without weapons. Even primates are better equipped for the world than we are, they are wicked strong.

Oh and when I said tools I was specific. We use basic tools to make more complex tools. I know animals use objects as tools, but we take objects and make tools and than use those tools to make even more complex ones. That's gotta be unique. That was my very rudimentary way of saying:

"We have roads, houses, stores, cars, planes, boats, space ships, guns, rockets, TVs, radios, ect."

And come on, you can't tell me that an animal culture comes even close to the complexity of even the most underdeveloped human culture! Language. Dialect. Fashion. Religion. Ethics. Food. Dance. ect...

 

[Green Man]

Good evening Pard[smile].
"That is what I meant by that phrase."
Ah, I see.
Our hairless-ness unique compared to what? A good many animals have less body hair than we do, or none at all. Every [normal]human has eyebrows, and that's more hair in one spot than all the hair upon an entire Blue Whale. A Chimpanzee doesn't have more hair than most Caucasian Men, it's just longer and more messed up and thus more obvious looking. True, we are physically "weak" compared to all of the other Great Apes, but humans were once like them too, long ago before men were men. As we grew stronger minds and grew better at making communication, and tools to help us do our work, we no longer have to be super strong. We grew strong in a different way, is all[well, the majority of us anyway, ha.ha.].

I really must go to bed now. I'll return sometime to finish responding back tomorrow, Pard.

 

[Pard]

Probably just as good for a different thread but...

Do monkeys work out? Because some of these apes are freaking strong, but you don't see them bench pressing or doing squats or lunges or curls. How come humans have to work out in order to beef up but it seems other animals (not just apes) don't need to? My dog si wicked strong but trust me, he never does any form of work out, just running and in the work out world running deteriorates muscle, it doesn't build it.

 

[jasoncran]

i am reading up on this subject it falls under evolutionary psychology.

 

[Asyncritus]

Good evening Pard[smile].
"That is what I meant by that phrase."
Ah, I see.
Our hairless-ness unique compared to what? A good many animals have less body hair than we do, or none at all. Every [normal]human has eyebrows, and that's more hair in one spot than all the hair upon an entire Blue Whale. A Chimpanzee doesn't have more hair than most Caucasian Men, it's just longer and more messed up and thus more obvious looking. True, we are physically "weak" compared to all of the other Great Apes, but humans were once like them too, long ago before men were men. As we grew stronger minds and grew better at making communication, and tools to help us do our work, we no longer have to be super strong. We grew strong in a different way, is all[well, the majority of us anyway, ha.ha.].

I really must go to bed now. I'll return sometime to finish responding back tomorrow, Pard.

Once upon a time...:angel3 (that's supposed to be a fairy, BTW...)

 

[Green Man]

Good evening gentlemen[smile].
Pard, post #5...
Are you serious? I cannot easily tell. They are not human, they are naturally powerful, and besides, as their[Monkeys or Chimps]very day to day lives involve all kinds of physical exertions then they would still be strong from that alone. Ever climb up a tall tree or climb up/swing on a long rope? Was it very easy[smile]? Now imagine how well muscled you'd be doing that sort of a thing all the time, every day. As a man, you'd never be as strong as a Chimp or Orangutan, but I'm willing to bet that after a year of that[assuming that you didn't fall and cripple yourself or something], combined with a bare-bones all natural healthy diet, that you'd be quite a fantastic specimen of human physical physique.

Asyncritus, it is good to hear from you on this thread[smile].
I don't understand what you are trying to say within your post. Are you trying to imply that you think Human evolution is a...."fairy tale"?

 

[Asyncritus]

Good evening gentlemen[smile].
Pard, post #5...
Are you serious? I cannot easily tell. They are not human, they are naturally powerful, and besides, as their[Monkeys or Chimps]very day to day lives involve all kinds of physical exertions then they would still be strong from that alone. Ever climb up a tall tree or climb up/swing on a long rope? Was it very easy[smile]? Now imagine how well muscled you'd be doing that sort of a thing all the time, every day. As a man, you'd never be as strong as a Chimp or Orangutan, but I'm willing to bet that after a year of that[assuming that you didn't fall and cripple yourself or something], combined with a bare-bones all natural healthy diet, that you'd be quite a fantastic specimen of human physical physique.

Asyncritus, it is good to hear from you on this thread[smile].
I don't understand what you are trying to say within your post. Are you trying to imply that you think Human evolution is a...."fairy tale"?

Yes, of course it is.

 

[Green Man]

[..Grins..]
"Yes, of course it is."
Ah yes, of COURse it is.......

Morbid curiosity compels me to inquire...And you base this belief upon what scientific evidences[smiles with one raised eyebrow]?

 

[Asyncritus]

[..Grins..]
"Yes, of course it is."
Ah yes, of COURse it is.......

Morbid curiosity compels me to inquire...And you base this belief upon what scientific evidences[smiles with one raised eyebrow]?

OK. You asked for it, and here is is:

BTW, can anyone tell me how to upload a picture on to the site?

The reasons why I think the idea that we have not evolved from chimpanzees or some such fall into 2 main groups.

1 The Anatomical and

2 The Psychospiritual.

There is no evolutionary way for these gaps to be bridged, and all the people like Leakey can produce will never account for these facts.

Unless you can show me different of course.

The Anatomical Reasons

[FONT=&quot]1 The Pelvis[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]

The shape of the pelvis is entirely different. In man it is broad, low, and basin-shaped.
In the apes, for example, its broad axis is from back to front

In man, its width from one iliac crest to the other is greater than its height. In
apes, it is the other way round.

The pubic symphysis is short in man, long in apes.

In man the lower part of the pelvis is almost equally distributed in front of and behind the socket bone. In apes it is inserted much further back, to permit the forward bending posture.

The special features of the human pelvis appear early in embryonic development , and are not preceded by conditions even resembling those that prevail in apes.

The large ilia, broad pelvis and well-developed spines all serve to give us our erect posture.

Here are a few words about how essential our upright posture really is:

To my mind, the most thorough single paper on this question was written by F. A. Hallebrandt and E. B. Franseen, entitled "Physiological Study of the Vertical Stance in Man."74 The following brief extracts will give a useful summary of this paper that runs into some thirty-six pages. The authors stated in introducing their subject:75
Many clinical papers in the current literature on posture indicate that stance defects may result ultimately in a variety of malfunctions including lessened respiratory efficiency, prolapse of the abdominal viscera, impairment of digestion, pressure and derangement of the pelvic organs, dysmenorrhea, haemorrhoids, varicose veins, constipation, cyclic vomiting, foot strain, backache, neuritis, and arthritis. Barring orthopedic disabilities, few of the etiologic associations are based on demonstrable fact....
74. Hallebrandt, F. A., and Franseen, E. B., "Physiological Study of the Vertical Stance in Man," Physiol. Rev. 22-23 (1943):221.

From this it must be obvious that any allegedly intermediate stages must have been hopelessly ill.

One of the less well recognized results of truly erect posture in man is its effect upon his powers of communication. The neck structure allows a certain configuration of the windpipe and vocal organs which permits men to talk easily to one another while maintaining the natural and normal position of the head. Both speaking and singing are possible for man without any such straightening out of the head and neck as must occur in other animals when they give voice
ibid

[/FONT]

 

[Asyncritus]

3 The coccyx is longer in human beings than in anthropoid apes (4 fused in humans, 3 fused in apes).

The human coccyx is placed lower than in the ape. It reaches almost to the end of the pubic symphysis, involving the production of a transverse perineum, as opposed to the oblique one of the ape.

The absence of a tail in man is due to the impedance it would offer to movement in an upright posture.

4 The straight legs of man are unique to man. Those of the anthropoids cannot be straightened.

5 Man is the only fully plantigrade primate.

The foot presses on the ground at three points which form the pillars of a double arch.

In the anthropoids, only the outer edge of the foot presses on the ground when the animal is standing.

In the apes, the relative lengths of the fingers are similar to those of the toes.

The first toe of the ape is opposable to the others. Those four are bound together by a broad band of fibre known as the transverse metatarsal ligament. In man, this ligament includes the big toe, and so binds all 5 toes together.


[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]http://custance.org/old/evol/5ch3/ligament.gif

I hope the link works, because in no other example, is it so glaringly obvious that the human foot could never have 'evolved' from a chimpanzee's.

The ligament ties all 5 toes together in man, but only ties 4 toes together in the chimp. This leaves the big toe free and able to grasp branches etc in the animal's locomotion.

There is no intermediate possible between 4 toes bound together and 5 toes bound together.

 

[Asyncritus]

3 The coccyx is longer in human beings than in anthropoid apes (4 fused in humans, 3 fused in apes).

The human coccyx is placed lower than in the ape. It reaches almost to the end of the pubic symphysis, involving the production of a transverse perineum, as opposed to the oblique one of the ape.

The absence of a tail in man is due to the impedance it would offer to movement in an upright posture.

4 The straight legs of man are unique to man. Those of the anthropoids cannot be straightened.

5 Man is the only fully plantigrade primate.

The foot presses on the ground at three points which form the pillars of a double arch.

In the anthropoids, only the outer edge of the foot presses on the ground when the animal is standing.

In the apes, the relative lengths of the fingers are similar to those of the toes.

The first toe of the ape is opposable to the others. Those four are bound together by a broad band of fibre known as the transverse metatarsal ligament. In man, this ligament includes the big toe, and so binds all 5 toes together.

To avoid having to put in the link, I'll write it in capitals. Go have a look.

HTTP://CUSTANCE.ORG/OLD/EVOL/5CH3/LIGAMENT.GIF
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
I hope the link works, because in no other example, is it so glaringly obvious that the human foot could never have 'evolved' from a chimpanzee's.

The ligament ties all 5 toes together in man, but only ties 4 toes together in the chimp. This leaves the big toe free and able to grasp branches etc in the animal's locomotion.

There is no intermediate possible between 4 toes bound together and 5 toes bound together.

 

[Asyncritus]

6 In the spinal column, there are other unique features.

The axis vertebra is absolutely vertical in man. In the apes it is oblique.

In order that that the head may rest on the spine in the vertical axis, the spinal column is curved to the front in the neck region, then it curves backwards and then forward in the lumbar region. This last curve is exhibited by no other animal.

 

[Asyncritus]

[FONT=&quot]7 The human arm differs markedly from that of any anthropoid.

It alone can be stretched so that upper and lower arm form a straight line.
The arm is relatively much shorter than that of any anthropoid, and the ratio of the length of the upper to the forearm is lower.
The human arm hangs differently from that of any anthropoid: the thumb points forward. In the apes, it points inward.

8 Man’s thumb is perfectly opposed to the rest of the fingers and is much bigger than that of the apes. The transverse lines on the palms run obliquely, rather than transversely as in the apes.

9 The scapula is applied to the back of the thorax in man. In other animals it is applied to the side of the thorax.
The socket for the insertion of the humerus faces outwards in man. In the apes, it faces downwards.

10 Man is unique among land animals in not possessing a covering of hair or fur. As a result, unlike other animal, has to adopt clothing of one sort or another to retain heat and ward off cold.

The absence of hair is difficult to explain – because the young anthropoid clings to the hair of its mother like a leech. The mother therefore need not bother too much about the infant when she is moving about. There is not the faintest resemblance to this in the human species.

11 Among other features exhibited by man and not the anthropoids are the following:
the bed of fat beneath the skin, the legs being longer than the arms, the large size and permanent separation of the nasal bones in man, the shortness of the external ear, the human brachial artery lying below the median nerve, the lack of sexual differentiation in the teeth, the premolar teeth of man having fewer roots than the anthropoids.[/FONT]

 

[Asyncritus]

[FONT=&quot]12 The brain size of a man is, relative to the size of the body, smaller than that of the tarsier monkey. Therefore, size alone is incapable of explaining the psychological gulf outlined below.

13 Sexual female anatomy is also different. In other animals, the vagina is parallel to the abdomen. In the human female it is tilted backwards because of the upright posture. You may wish to comment on the question as to whether the upright posture created the angling of the vagina, or whether the angling created the upright posture. Or whether it was created that way.

[/FONT]

 

[Asyncritus]

[FONT=&quot]2 The most apparent differences are the mental and psycho-spiritual ones.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

The intellectual powers of a human child far exceed those of any primate. The said child has a conception of religion, spirituality, and some abstract thought. If we think of the young Mozart writing magnificent pieces of music, and playing highly complex pieces of music with his hands behind him, and compare that with the exploits of the most highly trained chimpanzee, the mind boggles.

The intellectual and spiritual powers of an adult human are light years beyond those of a chimpanzee, and to say that an allegedly fused chromosome is proof of their descent from a common ancestor beggars belief.

Here are some of the major such differences.

Man is the only creature with the ability to count extensively
Man is the only creature with the ability to have a religion
Man is the only creature with the ability to have a moral sense
Man is the only creature with the ability to appreciate beauty
Man is the only creature with the ability to have a complex language
Man is the only creature with the ability to bury its dead
Man is the only creature with the ability to reason abstractly
Man is the only creature with the ability to manufacture tools and weapons
Man is the only creature with the ability to make articles of dress and adornment
Man is the only creature with the ability to make fire
Man is the only creature with the ability to sow and reap
Man is the only creature with the ability to improve its appearance
Man is the only creature with the delicacy and precision of touch that enables eye surgery as an example

Those are some of my reasons for rejecting the possibility that man could have evolved from the chimps or something else.
[/FONT]

 

[felix]

So, it would seem to me that, for evolution to make sense humans cannot be have unique (or any more unique than any other species are between one another) traits that differentiate them from other species. Are humans unique?

It would seem to me the answer is "yes, humans are unique". Which other species of animal has complex languages and many hundreds of them? Which other species has the brain development to not only support the spoken word but the written word? Which other species has the mental ability to take simply tools and create complex tools? Which other species creates vastly unique and complex cultures?

I could go on, however I'm really tired of the listing already...

So please answer this question. I probably will just sit back and watch what unfolds, so don't take my silence as uncaring.

Serpent can not only speak but can also deceive a human. But humans are unique because, we are created in the image of God.

 

[Barbarian]

Do monkeys work out? Because some of these apes are freaking strong, but you don't see them bench pressing or doing squats or lunges or curls. How come humans have to work out in order to beef up but it seems other animals (not just apes) don't need to? My dog si wicked strong but trust me, he never does any form of work out, just running and in the work out world running deteriorates muscle, it doesn't build it.

Humans have a defective gene that produces an excess of myostatin, a substance that prevents muscle growth. Hence, we gain muscle with some difficulty, and are never as strong as apes.

BTW, the Bible says that man was brought forth from the earth like the other animals, but that God directly gave him his soul. That's all the difference that matters.

 

[theLords]

Humans have a defective gene that produces an excess of myostatin, a substance that prevents muscle growth. Hence, we gain muscle with some difficulty, and are never as strong as apes.

BTW, the Bible says that man was brought forth from the earth like the other animals, but that God directly gave him his soul. That's all the difference that matters.

An effect of the curse? It's not much of a curse when one can grow to body builder size and the till the land