Are liars born that way?

[DarkHorseRising]

I'm just curious what other people's opinions are on this?

Do liars have some deviant genetic sequence that causes them to be at ease while lying? Or is it because they've chosen the world's values and turned against God?

What do you think of someone who claims to be Christian but has told a lie in the past? Can God ever forgive them, or are they doomed to Hell?

Should we ban liars from attending church until they go through a healing process?

Who would be interested in starting a petition to outlaw lying? We can present it to our elected representatives.

 

[Kidron]

Do liars have some deviant genetic sequence that causes them to be at ease while lying? Or is it because they've chosen the world's values and turned against God?


So, we are to conclude by your thread that you never have lied, never lie, and never will again?
Good luck with that unless you are living every second of your life for the Lord and are reading the bible as if its your lifeline to life.

Listen......people lie ither chronically or to hide or protect.
Satan is called the Father of lies, and perhaps he originated the "Lie" as he is the father of the lie as well as a murderer.
Jesus said that the pharisees were children of their father the devil, and if you'll notice,....when they arrested Jesus they brought in lying witnesses during the "trial".
It is the nature of all lost people to lie, as this is the fallen nature, which is the nature of the Devil.
Human nature is not holy, its unholy and this is why God has to fix it.
Only Christ's nature in us is holy and acceptable to God..
A Christian has a regenerated spirit,.. however, they also have their old nature that dwells within and this old nature has not been changed, thus they have this constant battle going on, to resit the old nature and overcome it by the Spirit. (Romans 7)[/FONT/


What do you think of someone who claims to be Christian but has told a lie in the past? Can God ever forgive them, or are they doomed to Hell?


No born again child of God can ever go to hell, and no one else is doomed to hell unless they die having rejected Christ.
Then they are going to hell based on the free will choice to go there which is determined by their willing rejection of God's pardon through Christ.
And regarding a Christian who lies, well, the idea is, that a Christian is ever becoming more like Christ in personality and lifestyle and faithstyle, but its an evolving process., a lifelong process.
Christians were humans before they became Christians and so, they've had a lot of time to perfect their character flaws.

Should we ban liars from attending church until they go through a healing process?


The people you ban from church are those members who are living in openly gross sin and who wont repent....and those who are attempting to split the church by strife.
They have to go.


Who would be interested in starting a petition to outlaw lying? We can present it to our elected representatives.


Fine concept, however...Let him who never lies cast the first vote...




K

.....................

 

[DarkHorseRising]

So, we are to conclude by your thread that you never have lied, never lie, and never will again?
Good luck with that unless you are living every second of your life for the Lord and are reading the bible as if its your lifeline to life.

Interesting... so it appears that it's more difficult to be against something that we may have done ourselves... very illuminating. Thank you for your contribution to this discussion.

 

[DarkHorseRising]

The people you ban from church are those members who are living in openly gross sin and who wont repent.

This would beg the question of what is an "openly gross sin"...?

What is the ranking of sins? Is there an online chart for convenience? Who decides this sort of thing?

Is a sin less offensive to God if we hide it from others?

One could argue that lying is one of the "openly gross sins" because it's so common, yet so antithetical to God. It's also very, very commonly denounced in the Bible.

So, what do you think would be the likely result if a church were to restrict from attendance any person who engaged in this particular sin?

 

[Danus]

.....very good.

Degrees of sin ....this has been discussed at length in the Christian community. The bible speaks to it as well. However, I tend to take a "sin is sin" approach to this. Christ pointed out that if we guilty of any part of the law we are guilty of all of the law. So, what's the difference?
I think we can answer that with "repentance".

Repentance is knowing ones guilt, and turning from that. Some see the act of repentance as a self imposed will act, some see it as a God imposed will act, but either way it's still an awareness of guilt to the higher standard.

I assume the reference to being a born liar is in connection to homosexuality? But, we can list any sin as well. However, regardless of the sin, if there is no element of repentance then whatever the sin is belong solely to the individual as an accepted manner of themselves, even though it is not accepted by God. The two can not exist together.

Either one accepts their guilt, or they accept their sin. If one accepts their sin then there is no repentance and no relationship with God, regardless of how much one reads the bible or attends church, or whatever sin they accept.

To have a relationship where God is an active element in ones life, requires repentance. That should be clear. God is not simply holding on to the unrepentant, teaching, guiding and blessing their lives. rather, he is accessible, but not agreeable. His back is turned to them for their unrepentance, and they will be judged for the sin they accept as correct to them.

If all men are sinners, then some are repentant of their sin nature and some are accept-ant of their sin nature. If they are repentant, then they are either accepting a new nature "IN" Christ (Imputed salvation) or "OF" Christ (Infused salvation).

This is another bag of "worms", but basically some Christians feel that they willfully follow Christ on their own accord and actions being more "like' Christ themselves, and some feel they are lead by the nature (spirit) of Christ in place of themselves, In any case all Christians follow one path of repentance or the other, regardless of their knowledge of the difference.

God has clearly laid out what is sin, but yet we tend by own own nature, not to like what we are hearing from God about sin, and so we want to work our own will into the picture and have that be accepted. God says, fine. If you want to embrace some aspect of your sin nature and call it not sin, then you won't mind it being judged to the measure of what is righteous. God says, "I can save you from that judgment. It's a free gift, but I need your life to do it. I need to be in control of you, to guide you, to lead you, t do for you what you can not do for yourself, and I do this for you out of my unfailing love for you." I'm paraphrasing, but that is basically what he says to us, and for him to do that requires us to repent of sin, to repent of ourselves, and we can not follow Christ until we give up ourselves, and that requires faith; which God will give when we repent. Some place the faith part before the repentance, but I do not.

 

[reba]

I'm just curious what other people's opinions are on this?

Do liars have some deviant genetic sequence that causes them to be at ease while lying? Or is it because they've chosen the world's values and turned against God?

What do you think of someone who claims to be Christian but has told a lie in the past? Can God ever forgive them, or are they doomed to Hell?

Should we ban liars from attending church until they go through a healing process?

Who would be interested in starting a petition to outlaw lying? We can present it to our elected representatives.

Perjury is a crime and it should be.

Again you are just being sarcastic but it would be nice if folks didn't lie..

Psa 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

 

[DarkHorseRising]

Again you are just being sarcastic but it would be nice if folks didn't lie..

I'm actually not being sarcastic, at least not intentionally.

I was tired of people endlessly debating one specific sin and decided to get the discussion ball rolling on a few sins that are far more relevant to people and society. I'm also finding some very interesting trends in how people approach different types of sin.

 

[Vic C.]

The trend(s) lie in how the media perceives certain actions. We (Christians) take our que from the media. If same sex marriage is given a positive slant (and it usually is) Christians feel compelled to speak out against it. If abortion is in the news, we speak out against it too.

So, it stands to reason that if lying is discussed at all by the media, it too will become a topic of discussion by Christians.

The first order of business for Christians is at home.

Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it. (Proverbs 22:6)

 

[Kidron]

Interesting... so it appears that it's more difficult to be against something that we may have done ourselves...

......If you are older then 5, you have lied., and i assume you are older then 5.
There is no, "may have done it", to be even considered by sane and mature adults.
And,....I dont find it difficult to be against "lying" as God himself prohibits it in the life of a believer, but it is difficult to believe that in a secular society... a secular law which prohibits it would be effective, since the person who authored the law and the legislature who enacted it are all liars.... past, present, and future.
What is a politician but someone who will promise you the moon to get elected and once elected they cant even deliver a moon beam.
See, people lie on so many levels that sometimes they dont even realize it.
Children dont even have to be taught to lie, as its just what they do naturally.
Even capitalism has its root in the lie, as for capitalism to work, stuff has to sell, and buyers have to buy.
So, the way this works is you have regulations that allow for manipulation of facts to be approved by the regulators.
Take for instance.....this phrase..."new and improved"......or the word "Best".
In advertising in the USA you are allowed to market manipulate the consumer by using those terms, even if those adjectives are not exactly true regarding your product.
For example, u can say that, "Tide is new improved"... based on the fact that the latest box Tide comes in is a better box, or the color of the washing powders is recently changed.
So the box is new and the soap has changed it color.
"new and improved".;);)

And you can say something is "the best", based on using "JD Power" or some other off the cuff "independent research" group's published research, and their research can be based on criteria that has nothing to do with a Honda Accord actually being the "best"< but according to their criteria it is the "best".
Even poll results that we are given to base who is the "front runner" in a election are normally not fair or honest, as the party who makes these telephone calls will make calls to ...college students- or single mothers- or small business owners-, and then based on THESE results you find out that Obama is "way ahead", or that Romney is "tied with Obama.
So, moral/factual honesty in the secular word is largely a myth.



K

 

[DarkHorseRising]

......If you are older then 5, you have lied., and i assume you are older then 5.
There is no, "may have done it", to be even considered by sane and mature adults.
And,....I dont find it difficult to be against "lying" as God himself prohibits it in the life of a believer, but it is difficult to believe that in a secular society... a secular law which prohibits it would be effective, since the person who authored the law and the legislature who enacted it are all liars.... past, present, and future.
What is a politician but someone who will promise you the moon to get elected and once elected they cant even deliver a moon beam.
See, people lie on so many levels that sometimes they dont even realize it.
Children dont even have to be taught to lie, as its just what they do naturally.
Even capitalism has its root in the lie, as for capitalism to work, stuff has to sell, and buyers have to buy.
So, the way this works is you have regulations that allow for manipulation of facts to be approved by the regulators.
Take for instance.....this phrase..."new and improved"......or the word "Best".
In advertising in the USA you are allowed to market manipulate the consumer by using those terms, even if those adjectives are not exactly true regarding your product.
For example, u can say that, "Tide is new improved"... based on the fact that the latest box Tide comes in is a better box, or the color of the washing powders is recently changed.
So the box is new and the soap has changed it color.
"new and improved".;);)

And you can say something is "the best", based on using "JD Power" or some other off the cuff "independent research" group's published research, and their research can be based on criteria that has nothing to do with a Honda Accord actually being the "best"< but according to their criteria it is the "best".
Even poll results that we are given to base who is the "front runner" in a election are normally not fair or honest, as the party who makes these telephone calls will make calls to ...college students- or single mothers- or small business owners-, and then based on THESE results you find out that Obama is "way ahead", or that Romney is "tied with Obama.
So, moral/factual honesty in the secular word is largely a myth.



K

So we should only target uncommon sins because it's an easier battle? Or perhaps because there would be less collateral damage among the rank and file Christians than if we were to demonize a sin everyone has been guilty of?

 

[DarkHorseRising]

The trend(s) lie in how the media perceives certain actions. We (Christians) take our que from the media. If same sex marriage is given a positive slant (and it usually is) Christians feel compelled to speak out against it. If abortion is in the news, we speak out against it too.

So, it stands to reason that if lying is discussed at all by the media, it too will become a topic of discussion by Christians.

The first order of business for Christians is at home.

Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it. (Proverbs 22:6)

Why on Earth would we let the media decide what battles Christians need to fight? Aside from the need to take their cues from God, it leaves the Christian community open to manipulation by the media.

 

[jasoncran]

the media has propgated lies since this nation was founded. it happens the most every election year.

 

[Kidron]

So we should only target uncommon sins because it's an easier battle? Or perhaps because there would be less collateral damage among the rank and file Christians than if we were to demonize a sin everyone has been guilty of?

1st Corinthians 10:13.

If you want to target a Christian's sins, targeting dishonesty makes a fine bullseye, but so does laziness, not being charitable, never witnessing, spiritual pride, ......the list is long and extensive.
Here is one....
Say its Sunday morning and the Easter service is going, and a whore comes in late off the street.
She smells, she's hungover, she's thin and has track marks in both arms, she is missing front teeth and has a black eye, and she probably has aids.
She's basically DOA but just has not arrived quite yet.
So...all "christians" in the congregation who would not go to her and be of service, have just sinned.
All who in their minds think......."wow, what is she doing in here, does she not have any respect"....have just sinned.
All who in their minds think......"wow look at that....GROSS'.... have just sinned.
All that would walk by her out in the parking lot, taking a last look and smirking on their way to play with their Ipad, have just sinned.

Sin is interesting in the life of a Christian, as often its the sin of omission more then its the sin of commission that they commit.
A lot of times, a Christian omits giving to the poor, witnessing, praying for the healing of the sick, and in general instead, making certain that every minute of their life is filled with cool AC- and a full belly- and plenty of cable tv.
So, if you compare all this to say....a lost sinner who is hooked on porn......then in the mind of God, the Christian's behavior is far far worse.




K