Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

[Gnostic]

According to your own position, evil and good are subjective, so these questions are pointless. When you refer to "our sense of good and evil," you can only mean, "my preferences of what I like and don't like." You simply don't like genocide but you have no basis for believing it is actually wrong. You also have absolutely no basis for thinking that Hitler did anything that was actually wrong, you simply don't agree with what he did and don't like it.

I strongly suggest you think about the self-refuting nature of your beliefs.

I have no need to, as it is self-affirming and not self-refuting.

That is the description of Gnosis.

Tell us why you like genocide and do not see the evil in it.

Regards
DL

 

[Free]

I have no need to, as it is self-affirming and not self-refuting.

That is the description of Gnosis.

If truth claims are not objective and don't correspond to reality, then Gnosticism is ultimately self-refuting. You can never know if you what you believe is true, if you have the right "truth," or if you have enough "truth," because truth is whatever you want it to be. It doesn't even matter if it's actually true (if it corresponds to reality), as long as you like what is claimed. Can you see how agnosticism would be more rational than and preferable to Gnosticism?

Tell us why you like genocide and do not see the evil in it.

I don't like genocide; it is evil. Of course, that may depend on how one defines "genocide." The difference in our positions is that I can say it's evil and it actually means something, objectively. If you say it's evil, it only means that you don't like it and would prefer it didn't happen.

 

[Gnostic]

If truth claims are not objective and don't correspond to reality, then Gnosticism is ultimately self-refuting. You can never know if you what you believe is true, if you have the right "truth," or if you have enough "truth," because truth is whatever you want it to be. It doesn't even matter if it's actually true (if it corresponds to reality), as long as you like what is claimed. Can you see how agnosticism would be more rational than and preferable to Gnosticism?


I don't like genocide; it is evil. Of course, that may depend on how one defines "genocide." The difference in our positions is that I can say it's evil and it actually means something, objectively. If you say it's evil, it only means that you don't like it and would prefer it didn't happen.

As we agree on it being evil, no definition required.

To your first.

If truth is what I want it to be, I am quite the creator God.

I think that there is only one reality, and it does not include that, because if I could, everybody could.

A truth should not be accepted without proof and or confirmation.

In scientific terms, that particular truth is an objective reality.

The moon is in the sky is an objective reality be you see it or believe it is what it is or not.

We would have to see what kind of claim is under discussion.

Regards
DL

 

[Who Me]

re you recognizing that your genocidal god has to answer to our sense of good and evil?

No we do not judge God, but God, whose character and nature determines what ' good ' is will judge us.

Where does your morality come from and on what is it based?

If you are looking to the 10 commandments you are using Gods morality to judge God.
In which case look again at you accusation of genocide. Read again Gods judgement on those people.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.

Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Regards
DL

Can you write out the scriptures please? I have never heard of these, but the claim that they are there has always proven to be false.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

According to your own position, evil and good are subjective, so these questions are pointless. When you refer to "our sense of good and evil," you can only mean, "my preferences of what I like and don't like." You simply don't like genocide but you have no basis for believing it is actually wrong. You also have absolutely no basis for thinking that Hitler did anything that was actually wrong, you simply don't agree with what he did and don't like it.

I strongly suggest you think about the self-refuting nature of your beliefs.

Excellent logic!!! Bravo!!

 

[Gnostic]

Can you write out the scriptures please? I have never heard of these, but the claim that they are there has always proven to be false.

I am sure you can use your own bible to verify the information.

If you want more, opine on what I have already given you.

Regards
DL

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I am sure you can use your own bible to verify the information.

If you want more, opine on what I have already given you.

Regards
DL

I can’t because the verses aren’t there.

 

[Gnostic]

I can’t because the verses aren’t there.

Why does god harden hearts against his own wish to be believed to be god?

In 2 Corinthians 3;14 - 15 God hardens Jewish hearts against their believing in Jesus as their messiah.

John 12;39-40 says about the same. The same applies to Romans 11;25, 2 Corinthians 4;3-4,

Use whatever version you like, but you are showing a poor retention ability if I have to lead you by the nose after giving you what you have requested.

Do change that.

Regards
DL

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Why does god harden hearts against his own wish to be believed to be god?

He doesn’t and you haven’t proven He does.

In 2 Corinthians 3;14 - 15 God hardens Jewish hearts against their believing in Jesus as their messiah.

That’s not what it says.

hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

God didn’t do that. One can see that in the Jews who were willing to see and believe understood. Those who refused kept their veil. We see this in real life. There are those flat out refuse the truth. It’s not God’s doing. It’s their choice.

John 12;39-40 says about the same.

voice came not because of me, but for your sakes. 31Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. 33This he said, signifying what death he should die. 34The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man? 35Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth. 36While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.

The Unbelief of the People

37But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: 38That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? 39Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, 40He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. 41These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

This is complex but you see in the text that they refused to believe, some of them and some of them chose to believe. Who started the process of hardening? The people. They had chance after chance to believe or not. Some of them refused for some the reason given that they were jealous. That’s what it says and it’s obvious that they were. So some refused on their own to believe. The responsibility for not believing is laid on them because Jesus upbraids them because they refused to believe. Jesus did say, “oh well God did it.”

The pattern of man choosing and choosing and then a strengthening of that choice continually taken occurs. It’s also called habit which is stronger than choice. So no God is not selecting some unlucky souls to be hardened. They are choosing to refuse to believe as the initial step. He does not punish people for what He did to them.

Use whatever version you like, but you are showing a poor retention ability if I have to lead you by the nose after giving you what you have requested.

Do change that.

Regards
DL

This is the last post to you and sent for those who wonder about God’s justice reading your twisted version. You accuse God of moral evil although you think it’s just personal preference and nothing absolute anyway. Now evil is merely opinion and yet when you accuse God of evil, it’s suddenly no longer just your personal opinion. I guess if we say something is evil that is only our opinion but when you say something is evil, well, then it is evil. "Some animals are more equal than others."

Your position cannot be consistently held which is why you constantly attack others.

 

[Gnostic]

The people. They had chance after chance to believe or not.

That equals interference with one's free will, does it not?

What about the commandments we are to follow?

Do commandments that must be followed not screw up the notions of free will?

Regards
DL

 

[Who Me]

That equals interference with one's free will, does it not?

What about the commandments we are to follow?

Do commandments that must be followed not screw up the notions of free will?

Regards
DL

My post 24, shows you that if you sin, you are a slave to sin. Free to sin but not free not to sin.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.





Regards
DL

If true, how do you explain the autonomous decision you have made regarding Jesus ?