M
matt041187
Guest
This thread is designed for those who would like to answer a (in my opinion) most interesting question, what do you think about the Stories of the Mother of Jesus or Marian apparitions? Truth, fiction, or a combination of both? You cant prove either way but you can give your opinion based on personal experience and Historical evidence.
Some examples from Saint Louis De Montfort's book "Secret of the Rosary" are:
The Mother of Jesus allegedly told Saint Dominic that the Rosary is the weapon that the Holy Trinity wishes to use to reform the world, the battering ram in the warfare he was dealing with, and that his preaching it would win the hardest of Hearts. (Secret of the Rosary pg 18 2n Rose)
She allegedly said "when you pray the Rosary the Angels and Saints rejoice, the Holy Trinity delights in it, and I myself am happier than you can possibly imagine" (secret of the Rosary pg 137).
Certain Saints have explained that oceans of graces flooded her soul when the Archangel Gabriel and her cousin Elizabeth, under the influence of the Holy Spirit, gave her that greeting, and when we say our Hail Mary really well it opens into a beautiful rose, gives her the same joy she experienced at the Incarnation, and no other composition of words or poetry could be so delightful to her heart.
Mary said , "never has a person composed something more beautiful than the Hail Mary. No salutation could be dearer to my Heart than those beautiful and dignified words that God the Father addressed to me himself...I want you to know that the angelic salutation (hail Mary) gives me so much joy that no one could ever really explain it" (secret of the Rosary pg 138,139).
(by the way, you can recite the Angelic Salutation without contradicting the Solo-Scriptura Doctrine. In it's original form, the Angelic Salutation was "Hail Mary full of grace the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus" which comes entirely from the Gospel of Luke, therefore it is not a man-made prayer but the word of God. You cant offend God by reciting his word.)
She told Blessed Alan de la Roche, "through the Rosary hardened sinners of both genders became converted and started to lead a holy life, bemoaning their past sins with genuine contrition...I must not fail to mention the signs and wonders that I have wrought in different lands through the Holy Rosary: I have stopped pestilences and put an end to horrible wars as well as to bloody crimes, and through the Rosary people found the courage to flee temptation (Secret of the Rosary pg 139.)
Jesus allegedly gave this urgent message to Berthe Petit: "teach souls to love the Heart of my Mother pierced by the very sorrow which pierced mine. It is hearts that must be changed. This will be accomplished only by the Devotion proclaimed, explained, preached, and recommended everywhere. Recourse to my Mother...it is the last help that I shall give before the end of time." (Secret of the Rosary pg 9)
Not to mention the 15 promises she made to those who recite the Rosary and many other stories, heavenly promises, and prophecies.
Many people dismiss the church approved revelations of the Saints and Mystics as ex-trabiblical fairy tales.
But wait a second! Scientists have examined our Lady of Guadalupe's image and say there is no scientific explanation for how a person could have put the image on the fibers nor is there a scientific explanation for why the cactus fibers of the tilma dont decompose. Could that be a fairy tale?
Not to mention the fact that the apparition of the Virgin of Guadalupe lead to the miraculous conversion of the Aztecs which is the greatest conversion story of a single group of people converting to a single Religion in a short period of time in the History of the World.
There is a medical Bureau at Lourdes that according to Don Sharkley's book "The woman shall conquer" has documented over 4,000 miraculous cures from the miraculous Spring that took place at the site of the appearance of the Blessed Virgin Mary to St. Bernadette (1858).
The scientists and Doctors often have no religious persuasion and do not give the miracle the term "certified" unless they have proof from medical records that the person had an incureable malady, that the cure is complete and instantaneous, and that there can be no scientific or medical explanation for the cure. That is no Fairy Tale!
Some people object saying "Nowhere in the Scriptures have the dead appeared to people on earth?" Not true. During the transfiguration (Luke 9:18-36) Christ was interacting with Moses and Elijah. But wasnt Moses dead?
Yes his body died long before but actually he was very alive in Heaven and interacting with Christ. He also appeared to some of the apostles as well, so if Moses and Elijah appeared to people on earth and were interacting with Christ who is on earth it would not make it too unbiblical to assume that the souls of the just are alive in heaven, interacting with God (praying), and could appear to people on earth.
At Fatima (1917) the Virgin Mary promised a miracle that got media attention and a crowd of 70,000 people, many of them being communists, freemasons, and anti-religious people witnessed the "miracle of the sun" and even wrote about it in secular newspapers.
Not to mention that through this appearance, three lilliterate shepard children knew about and warned the world about the rise of communism, the spreading of Russia's errors throughout the world, and the coming of the Second World War. Two of the seers mentioned that the Mother of Jesus told them they would go to Heaven soon and shortly after that they got sick and died. The rest of the prophecies came true as well. That is no work of fiction!
(there have been many books, documenteries, and movies made about Fatima. It got much media attention and the prophecies came true which would make it the greatest supernatural event of the 20th century, the greatest sign to modern skeptics, and a Historical fact)
At Rue de Bac France in 1830, the Blessed Virgin Mary warned about the coming of another bloody French Revolution, and at La salette (1846) she spoke of the coming of the Potato and wheat famines that would strike Europe as a consequence of sin.
In many of the apparitions Mary acts as God's messenger to let people know of a coming chastisement if they dont renounce their sins and turn back to God.
I have personally experienced the Rosary to be the most life-changing remedy I ever got my little unworthy hands on but even without personal testimony I would not dismiss the many far-fetched stories the Saints tell about Mary and the Rosary based on overwhelming Historical, Scientific, and Medically documented evidence.
She doesn’t appear to Catholics only. In Alexandria, Egypt, the Mother of Christ appeared to Coptics, Muslims, Jews, Protestants, and agnostics. The majority of those who saw her would have been Muslim. The apparition lasted 3 hours and thousands of people from the neighborhood, surrounding areas, and passers-by gathered to the street in front of the Church to see her in an age where cell phones and video cameras were picking up the event. Unlike most apparitions, she was not just visible to a few innocent children but to everyone in the area.
On September 8 1947 she appeared with a Bible in her hand to a Protestant named Bruno Cornacchiola who was planning on killing the Pope, and told him that she was the woman from Revelation chapter 12 and told him to enter the true sheepfold. He dedicated the rest of his life to giving his testimony and trying to convert the Seventh Day Adventists.
Only those who choose not to investigate could dismiss some of these as works of fiction .
What do you think?
Some examples from Saint Louis De Montfort's book "Secret of the Rosary" are:
The Mother of Jesus allegedly told Saint Dominic that the Rosary is the weapon that the Holy Trinity wishes to use to reform the world, the battering ram in the warfare he was dealing with, and that his preaching it would win the hardest of Hearts. (Secret of the Rosary pg 18 2n Rose)
She allegedly said "when you pray the Rosary the Angels and Saints rejoice, the Holy Trinity delights in it, and I myself am happier than you can possibly imagine" (secret of the Rosary pg 137).
Certain Saints have explained that oceans of graces flooded her soul when the Archangel Gabriel and her cousin Elizabeth, under the influence of the Holy Spirit, gave her that greeting, and when we say our Hail Mary really well it opens into a beautiful rose, gives her the same joy she experienced at the Incarnation, and no other composition of words or poetry could be so delightful to her heart.
Mary said , "never has a person composed something more beautiful than the Hail Mary. No salutation could be dearer to my Heart than those beautiful and dignified words that God the Father addressed to me himself...I want you to know that the angelic salutation (hail Mary) gives me so much joy that no one could ever really explain it" (secret of the Rosary pg 138,139).
(by the way, you can recite the Angelic Salutation without contradicting the Solo-Scriptura Doctrine. In it's original form, the Angelic Salutation was "Hail Mary full of grace the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus" which comes entirely from the Gospel of Luke, therefore it is not a man-made prayer but the word of God. You cant offend God by reciting his word.)
She told Blessed Alan de la Roche, "through the Rosary hardened sinners of both genders became converted and started to lead a holy life, bemoaning their past sins with genuine contrition...I must not fail to mention the signs and wonders that I have wrought in different lands through the Holy Rosary: I have stopped pestilences and put an end to horrible wars as well as to bloody crimes, and through the Rosary people found the courage to flee temptation (Secret of the Rosary pg 139.)
Jesus allegedly gave this urgent message to Berthe Petit: "teach souls to love the Heart of my Mother pierced by the very sorrow which pierced mine. It is hearts that must be changed. This will be accomplished only by the Devotion proclaimed, explained, preached, and recommended everywhere. Recourse to my Mother...it is the last help that I shall give before the end of time." (Secret of the Rosary pg 9)
Not to mention the 15 promises she made to those who recite the Rosary and many other stories, heavenly promises, and prophecies.
Many people dismiss the church approved revelations of the Saints and Mystics as ex-trabiblical fairy tales.
But wait a second! Scientists have examined our Lady of Guadalupe's image and say there is no scientific explanation for how a person could have put the image on the fibers nor is there a scientific explanation for why the cactus fibers of the tilma dont decompose. Could that be a fairy tale?
Not to mention the fact that the apparition of the Virgin of Guadalupe lead to the miraculous conversion of the Aztecs which is the greatest conversion story of a single group of people converting to a single Religion in a short period of time in the History of the World.
There is a medical Bureau at Lourdes that according to Don Sharkley's book "The woman shall conquer" has documented over 4,000 miraculous cures from the miraculous Spring that took place at the site of the appearance of the Blessed Virgin Mary to St. Bernadette (1858).
The scientists and Doctors often have no religious persuasion and do not give the miracle the term "certified" unless they have proof from medical records that the person had an incureable malady, that the cure is complete and instantaneous, and that there can be no scientific or medical explanation for the cure. That is no Fairy Tale!
Some people object saying "Nowhere in the Scriptures have the dead appeared to people on earth?" Not true. During the transfiguration (Luke 9:18-36) Christ was interacting with Moses and Elijah. But wasnt Moses dead?
Yes his body died long before but actually he was very alive in Heaven and interacting with Christ. He also appeared to some of the apostles as well, so if Moses and Elijah appeared to people on earth and were interacting with Christ who is on earth it would not make it too unbiblical to assume that the souls of the just are alive in heaven, interacting with God (praying), and could appear to people on earth.
At Fatima (1917) the Virgin Mary promised a miracle that got media attention and a crowd of 70,000 people, many of them being communists, freemasons, and anti-religious people witnessed the "miracle of the sun" and even wrote about it in secular newspapers.
Not to mention that through this appearance, three lilliterate shepard children knew about and warned the world about the rise of communism, the spreading of Russia's errors throughout the world, and the coming of the Second World War. Two of the seers mentioned that the Mother of Jesus told them they would go to Heaven soon and shortly after that they got sick and died. The rest of the prophecies came true as well. That is no work of fiction!
(there have been many books, documenteries, and movies made about Fatima. It got much media attention and the prophecies came true which would make it the greatest supernatural event of the 20th century, the greatest sign to modern skeptics, and a Historical fact)
At Rue de Bac France in 1830, the Blessed Virgin Mary warned about the coming of another bloody French Revolution, and at La salette (1846) she spoke of the coming of the Potato and wheat famines that would strike Europe as a consequence of sin.
In many of the apparitions Mary acts as God's messenger to let people know of a coming chastisement if they dont renounce their sins and turn back to God.
I have personally experienced the Rosary to be the most life-changing remedy I ever got my little unworthy hands on but even without personal testimony I would not dismiss the many far-fetched stories the Saints tell about Mary and the Rosary based on overwhelming Historical, Scientific, and Medically documented evidence.
She doesn’t appear to Catholics only. In Alexandria, Egypt, the Mother of Christ appeared to Coptics, Muslims, Jews, Protestants, and agnostics. The majority of those who saw her would have been Muslim. The apparition lasted 3 hours and thousands of people from the neighborhood, surrounding areas, and passers-by gathered to the street in front of the Church to see her in an age where cell phones and video cameras were picking up the event. Unlike most apparitions, she was not just visible to a few innocent children but to everyone in the area.
On September 8 1947 she appeared with a Bible in her hand to a Protestant named Bruno Cornacchiola who was planning on killing the Pope, and told him that she was the woman from Revelation chapter 12 and told him to enter the true sheepfold. He dedicated the rest of his life to giving his testimony and trying to convert the Seventh Day Adventists.
Only those who choose not to investigate could dismiss some of these as works of fiction .
What do you think?
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