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[_ Old Earth _] Are We Alone in the Universe?

Well, I like the Big Bang Theory. Currently, it seems that space is infinite, so with infinite possibilities, I would say there has to be life out there. So the question for me is "how far away?" If it is beyond the visible universe, then it wouldn't really matter to us.

But I think life is probably more frequent. However, it would probably be in the virus or single cell stage for a long time so that may be what we find elsewhere.

Quath
 
The "Big Bang" theory.

And God said let there be...

Bang! And it was so...

Genesis Chapter 1
 
Anonymous said:
some christians visions and near death experiences.

And that proves life on other planets how?
+God says it if you ask him and have enough love to hear him.
but ehm, what do you accept as proof?
 
Actually I was quoting Terry Prattchet.
"I'VE SEEN INFINITY. IT'S BLUE."
 
blueeyeliner said:
The life on other planets would most likely be demons.
Fallen Angels could also possibly be there on the planets too?
God knows where they go.


I hope that if we ever find other intelligent life out there, that you will never be the one to initiate first contact.

Alien " Greetings, we are from planet Xizor"

Blue "Gosh durn it, it's a deeemon!!!"
:smt070
 
Asimov said:
blueeyeliner said:
The life on other planets would most likely be demons.
Fallen Angels could also possibly be there on the planets too?
God knows where they go.


I hope that if we ever find other intelligent life out there, that you will never be the one to initiate first contact.

Alien " Greetings, we are from planet Xizor"

Blue "Gosh durn it, it's a deeemon!!!"
:smt070

:P Aren't you just a tad too bitter right now?
You shouldn't get sooooo uptight just because I don't
share your ideas. To me they are just silly,but I usually
give you room to spill your opinions around.
 
http://bibeltemplet.net/1195en.html





A Website for Uncompromised Faith and Revival


"BUT AS THE DAYS OF NOA WERE, SO SHALL ALSO THE COMING OF THE SON OF MAN BE"




The ORIGIN of ANGELS


W
HEN YOU ON A CLEAR NIGHT watch the starry sky, with its for the eye thousands and for the telescopes millions of visible stars, and at the same time consider how and according to which laws God has created the Earth, with its regularity and harmony between great and small, how every detail fits into the other, every creature and every thing has its mission, and nothing really is left to chance - then you must also wonder: Why did God create all those star-worlds, if life was to be only here on Earth?

IT SIMPLY doesn't correspond, it doesn't fit into the picture you get of the Creator by observing his works. The Earth is created to be inhabited by people, it is our dwelling place. Houses are built for someone to live in them, cars are constructed for someone to drive them.
So then planets are being created to house living creatures. Of all the stars in the Milky Way galaxy alone - the galaxy where our Sun dwells - there should be many thousands of suns with planets resembling the Earth, suited to be inhabited by creatures like us.

What kind of beings are angels actually? Are all angels of the same kind? No, the Bible speaks of angels of many different kinds.
They are all created by God, to serve Him, as humanity is, but there are angels of different shape. Some are gigantic, others in the same size as humans. Some resemble humans, others resemble animals. Some have wings; certain, like the cherubs or seraphim, have up to six wings.
The angels are divided into different groups and ranks. They are called powers and principalities, rulers, ministering spirits, etc. They are called God's angels and the devil's angels, sons of God, sons of heaven, spiritual wickedness in high places, the power of the air, the host of the Lord, etc.

Most of them seems to be spiritual beings, who only in rare cases show themselves for humans. But there may also be angels with physical bodies like ours - at least the story about "the sons of God" in Genesis 6 seems to indicate that.

These angels came in unto the daughters of men, it is said, married them and begat children with them. Their children became a new race: the giants, who were superiour to ordinary men both physically and technologically.
But according to what Jesus said in Luke 20:34-36, angels don't get any children . Then what kind of angels were these...? They may have been visitors from another solar system!

They "left their own habitation", we learn in Jude v. 6, and went into marriage with earthly women och got offspring with them. They settled on Earth, because they saw its daughters were fair.
Thus, they may have been alien colonizers, who discovered an interesting planet with beings resembling themselves.
But they were also bringing the sin and wickedness of their own race, which fastly spread and was transferred to a humanity that already had fallen into sin.


THE BIBLE SAYS THAT A FALL HAD TAKEN PLACE IN GOD'S HEAVEN in an early stage, when Lucifer, the shining morning star, and a third of the angels partook in a rebellion against God. These were then thrown out of God's heaven, and were spread out over the starry sky, in the "high places".
But that group of angels who came to Earth in Noa's time wasn't thrown down from heaven. They had abandoned it, it is said. This is a significant difference between them and Lucifer's angels, and another is, as mentioned, their ability to get offspring. For certain, Lucifer's angels could have the ability to simulate these capacities, but in that case there should have been a multitude of giants among us today, since demons dwell in great numbers on Earth and not withdraw from having sex with both men and women, given opportunity.

Yet another difference between Lucifer's angels and the angels of the Flood, is that the latter already are imprisoned in the "deepest abyss" (2 Peter 2:4, greek text), while the former still are allowed to move freely in space and on Earth.
The devil and his angels will one day be gathered and judged for their deeds, and then in due time, be cast into the lake of fire. But the angels of the Flood are already imprisoned, and kept with "everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgement of the great day" (Jude v. 6).

When humans die in an unsaved condition, their spirits are brought to Hades, where they are kept, awaiting their trial. Evidently this also happened to the fathers of the giants. Does this mean that these "aliens" simply died, physically, together with all the others in the deluge, and so their spirits were brought to a certain custody in Hades, and the spirits of the humans to another?
God made an end to the colonization attempt, and from that on only sporadic visits have occurred, and no more serious settlements have taken place, out of fear that the same God's punishment would strike them again.


BUT WHAT ABOUT THE DEVIL HIMSELF AND HIS ANGELS? In Hezekiel 28 it is said that Lucifer dwelled on the "holy mountain of God", and that he at the time was a shining being, a "covering cherub", adorned with precious stones. But after iniquity was found in him, he was exiled from the mountain of God, was destroyed and cast down to earth.
This "mountain of God" could be a planet of God, and Lucifers' exile from there was manifested by him being destroyed - that is, he was killed, and so his spirit and dead body was thrown down to earth.
The devil and his angels would then be dead beings, who now are without bodies, and therefore want to possess humans, through them getting satisfaction for their cravings.
And the living angels, who arrived here at the time of Noah, may have been tempted by these dead angels, to settle here with the purpose to breed a race of hybrids; highly intelligent superhumans of a vast stature, for the demons to dwell in.


THESE THOUGHTS ARE SPECULATIVE, and no one must take them fully seriously. But still, isn't it peculiar to see all these stars and think that God created them without reason? Pretty much as if someone would have built a thousand houses, when only a single family needed habitation. It's not like our heavenly Father to do such a thing.

So, "flying saucers" may exist then, after all...? And the ancient story about the superhumans in Atlantis may be true...? Nothing of this really is in conflict with the Bible, on the contrary, there's quite a lot that suggests it. In due time we will know, if we are faithful to Jesus until the end.
_______










WHAT HAPPENED IN THE BEGINNING?
Before the first day


If only one star in a million has a planet resembling the Earth, there are still thousands of "earths" in our stellar system, the Milky Way. And the Milky Way is just one of billions of other galaxies, which are spread in the universe the telescopes are revealing.

And all of this is supposed to be created without reason, while one small and lonely planet in this endless ocean of stars was to be inhabited by humans?
"In my Father's house are many mansions", Jesus says (John 14:2). Maybe he's talking about planets. It may also be that the Earth is the first planet where God created life, life which then is to be transferred to other planets.
But the Bible possibly gives more support to the first thought. The angels were created before there was life on Earth. "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth", it is said in the Hebraic Genesis. That is, he created the heavens first; God's heaven and the heaven of stars - and after that the Earth, with its heaven/atmosphere.

The angels - the sons of God and the morning stars - were present when the foundations of the Earth were laid, according to Job 38:4-7. Truly, Moses states that God made the sun and the moon and the stars on the fourth day, but as the Bible cannot be self-contradictory, it must imply that the sun, the moon and the brightest stars were made visible, from Earth, on the fourth day.
They were to be "for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth" (Genesis 1:14-15). But as you know, there are only a very small amount of stars that can be seen from Earth with our naked eyes.
So, if the heavens, the stars and the angels were there before the Earth, then the Universe very possibly may have been inhabited by living beings long before the Earth was created.

An odd detail in the Creation story is that the heavens and the Earth wasn't created on the first day, but before the first day. The four first verses in the Bible tells about what God created before the beginning of time, or at least before the beginning of our time. (According to another view, nobody knows how long the first day was, and thus the before mentioned can be held in that day.)
So, even if the creation of life and the conditions of life on Earth took place in six short days, the Earth globe and the Universe might be much older.

This still won't give evidence for a darwinian "evolution", but the universe in itself might be of an age that the distant-measurements in light years suggests.
The evolution theory, on the other hand, is just a miserable way of getting around the problem of sin and personal responsibility before the Creator.
Creating life on Earth in six days is no problem for Him that is above time and space. Time as we perceive it is a part of the creation, and is connected to the Earth's rotation around itself and around the Sun.

And now science actually speak about two "creation processes". The first when the universe was made in a Big Bang, and the other when life long afterwards originated on Earth. This is, as one can see, in good accordance with the creation account in the Bible.
They also say that these two processes took place "quickly", of a sudden. Not in a few days of course, but quickly compared to the supposed age of the universe.
But how do you measure time in a time when days, months and years yet didn't exist? Quickly in relation to what, and to whom?

It has been stated that atom clocks in fast jetplanes "clicks" slower than atom clocks at ground. Time has been shown to be strechable and changable, in relation to both speed and gravitation.
So why persist in time measurements in a phase when time as we understand it not even had started? Even time is relative and submitted to higher divine laws.
_______



"FOR WITH GOD NOTHING SHALL BE IMPOSSIBLE" (Luke 1:37)



























TIME AND
GRAVITATION


EVERYTHING IS RELATIVE, Albert Einstein said, even light, and predicted that light beams from distant stars would change direction when passing a closer object's gravitation field, for example that of the Sun.

This was proven to be true when astronomers during a solar eclipse some years later observed how star light, near the covered Sun disk, had been "pulled" out of course by the Sun's gravitation.

So, if light is relative and influenced by gravitation, then what about time? Is time also relative, and if so, is it too influenced by gravitation?
Is time and gravitation linked, so that were there is no gravitation, neither is there any time? Which would mean that as closer you get, say to the Sun; the faster time passes, and the longer you move away from the Sun, the slower time passes?

The days and years of the planet Mercury is shorter than those of the Earth, and those of Jupiter is longer. Would this mean that a man's days would run faster in the orbit of Mercury - that is, you'd be aging faster, while you'd get longer days and therebye longer life, in Jupiter's orbit?
Or is it in relation to the Earth the lifespan would be altered, while you yourself wouldn't notice any difference?

And would time cease to exist completely (or almost) between the stars, so that you became nearly immortal, until you once again entered a star's gravitation field?
If so, this would mean that it's fully possible to travel between stars, if only the travellers can get out of the gravitation fields of the stars in reasonable time.
Thus moving across unbelievable distanses, they would still experience it as a short journey, while at the same time many years would pass on Earth.


AND WHAT ABOUT LIGHT then, when it travels through the empty and nearly gravitation-less space? Would this turn up side down the datings that are made for distant objects on the starry sky?
Perhaps distant galaxies are younger than they seem to be, simply because the light speed could have been distorted during its passage through different gravitation fields on the way to us?

Albert Einstein also has shown that what actually happens when light beams are influenced by gravitation, is that time itself is altered, rather than light speed is changing.
Paradoxical as it may sound, already in the 1800:s, measurements had shown that light in vacuum always moves with the same velocity, no matter in which direction to the Sun.
Einstein explained this mystery by saying that what actually happens with star light passing a strong gravitation field, is that the light moves on in constant speed, while time is slowing down. But these distortions are so small, that they cannot be observed during light measurements here on Earth. Star light from distant galaxies though may have pulled time along on its journey through space.

What we see in the night sky then might be a bigger optical illusion than many astronomers realize. They, of course, believe they are "looking back" in time, because the shining objects are located many millions or billions of light years away.
But if the gravitation's influence on light and time is added to the measurements, then perhaps all figures would show up to be worthless. It's not at all that certain, that contemporary measurements, instruments and time- and space-conceptions, gives a true picture of what is happening in the tremendous night sky God is letting us see.

THIS WOULD EXPLAIN how physical beings from other solar systems, if the above suppositions are correct, have been able to visit the Earth, and perhaps still are doing it, now and then.


_______





(Originally printed in the Swedish periodical Väckelseropet, no. 11 1995.)



















A
BIBLICAL
COSMOLOGY


A series of articles about the past, the present and the future, considering our Earth and the Universe.


THE ORIGIN OF ANGELS
What happened in the Beginning? Before the First Day. Time and Gravitation

GIANTS
Mighty Men of Old. The Flying Saucer Mystery

THE ORIGIN OF ANGELS, part 2
A Biblical Cosmology. Third Heaven - Paradise


THESE are not yet translated, but there's a simple online-translator at the bottom of the pages:
THE HOSTS OF THE LORD
A Heavenly Parade. Strange Facts about Mars. The Lord's Clouds

ANGELS, GIANTS & DINOSAURS
Evidence of the Giants

WHAT'S HAPPENING IN OUTER SPACE?
What are Flying Saucers? A Commentary on the Book of Enoch

BEHEMOTH & LEVIATHAN
The Ancient World

THE SONS OF GOD
Visitors from Cosmos. Faith's Science. The Heavenly Gardener. Gabriel and the Son of Man

THE FALL FROM THE MOUNTAIN OF GOD
The Origin of Angels, part 3. A Universal Atonement. Funeral Speach over Lucifer

A VISIT TO THE PARADISE-PLANET
Does the Bible say anything about life on other planets? Heaven and Hell - Cosmic Realities. Angelic starships - Fire-Wagons. At a Higher Frequenze. Angelic food-practices

THE HEAVENLY CITY
The New Earth: A closer look. Medieval inpacts on Bible-interpretation
______










The
BIBLETEMPLE



Questions & comments:

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KING JAMES BIBLE
ONLINE...
 
odds

bibleberean said:
This [mathematical impossibility] is well known to geneticists and yet nobody seems to blow the whistle decisively on the theory...because of its grip on the educational system....You either have to believe the concepts, or you will be branded a heretic.4

Read full article here...

http://www.thebereancall.org/Newsletter ... /7367.aspx

Yet you have no problem and apparantly no one has done the mathamatical calculations on the odds of a supernatural , all knowing being creating itself. What are those odds? Whatever the odds for random life we know life exists. As for odds of Gods existance there is still no evidence so the odds are still in favor of random creation.
 
There are no "odds" of God existing. God simply exists.

According to scripture the only people who have trouble with this concept suffer from denial.

God is self evident. He is the first cause of all Creation. He has no beginning.

A person has to be deaf, dumb, blind, and mentally disabled not to see the obvious.

It is truly absurd to think living beings, plants and physical laws could come about by blind luck.

All these things were designed by a designer.

Time has passed since the last post. The clock is still ticking...

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

The moment of truth is coming closer with each passing second.

There will be no atheists or skeptics soon....

That is just the way it is. :-D
 
I'm a little late to the discussion, but I don't think there is life on any other planets. Anyone heard of the "Rare Earth" hypothesis or read the book?
 
convicitions

bibleberean said:
There are no "odds" of God existing. God simply exists.
Only for you.

According to scripture the only people who have trouble with this concept suffer from denial.
What else would you expect it to say? It's a weak argurment as the scripture is meaningless to non believers.

God is self evident. He is the first cause of all Creation. He has no beginning.
Apparantly not since no one has any proof of his existance and certainly less evidence as his ability to make himself known.

A person has to be deaf, dumb, blind, and mentally disabled not to see the obvious.
Actually I think the examples are more geared to the acceptance of believing in something that can't be seen, heard, touched nor make known in the real world. Only in ones imagination is there evidence and unfortunately no one can impart ones imagination to others.

It is truly absurd to think living beings, plants and physical laws could come about by blind luck.
However it makes perfect sense to think a creator created himself all perfect and all knowing and just happened to make man in his image because he was lonely and needed playthings to keep him amused. Now if we don't humor him by worshipping and lavishing praise on him he will be upset and throw a tantrum and sooner or later he will lose his temper and throw the poor scumbag into hell forever and ever. Yep thats a whole lot more believable than simply saying we don't have all the answers to the universe.

The moment of truth is coming closer with each passing second.
Be afraid, be very afraid.

There will be no atheists or skeptics soon....
Or theists.

That is just the way it is. :-D
 
Free said:
I'm a little late to the discussion, but I don't think there is life on any other planets. Anyone heard of the "Rare Earth" hypothesis or read the book?

I have heard of the book but haven't read it.

I don't think there is life on other planets either.
 
I had started reading it but then put it down to read something else. It is written by two leading astrobiologists (Peter Ward and Donald Brownlee) who are evolutionists. They pretty much posit the fine-tuning argument that creationists use except that their conclusion is just that life in the universe is very rare, possible only on Earth. Their theory has serious implications which they do not address.
 
Free said:
I had started reading it but then put it down to read something else. It is written by two leading astrobiologists (Peter Ward and Donald Brownlee) who are evolutionists. They pretty much posit the fine-tuning argument that creationists use except that their conclusion is just that life in the universe is very rare, possible only on Earth. Their theory has serious implications which they do not address.

Sounds like a book worth reading. I will look for it online.
 
Free said:
I had started reading it but then put it down to read something else. It is written by two leading astrobiologists (Peter Ward and Donald Brownlee) who are evolutionists. They pretty much posit the fine-tuning argument that creationists use except that their conclusion is just that life in the universe is very rare, possible only on Earth. Their theory has serious implications which they do not address.

Yes, and there are also some problems associated with their thinking. We have only observed 200 planets in the universe. Planet finding is very difficult as planets do not give off light.

Other difficulties is that we only know of one way that life could form, so we have only observed carbon based life forms.

I guess no one can no for sure, it is an interest thing to discuss, and we should never give up out search.
 
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