Are You Able to Disprove this Evidence for When Jesus Said He Would Return?

[reba]

OSAS As posted to you before

Most end time topics will hit on preterism while a deeper preterist discussion belongs in the preterist sub forum.

Please stop you are in violation the TOS of this site. Those here of the pretersim leaning are not responding because they are honoring the rules. You would do well to abide also.

Moderator

 

[OSASArminian]

OSAS As posted to you before

Most end time topics will hit on preterism while a deeper preterist discussion belongs in the preterist sub forum.

Please stop you are in violation the TOS of this site. Those here of the pretersim leaning are not responding because they are honoring the rules. You would do well to abide also.

Moderator

All preterism is false, so I never talk about it unless someone comes into my thread to talk about it like storm did. It's obviously false since those who destroyed the Temple are not Jesus' people, nor has Jesus returned, nor is this a millennial peace, nor does the 69th and 70th seven overlap, so there is nothing a preterist has to offer except sadness to see that he is going to Hell for worshiping a false Christ.

The preterists have done lots of responding already don't you think? They are stuck so they give up. I would do the same if I was on the losing team and join the winning team. Praise the Lord1!

 

[OSASArminian]

So would you classify this is as a preterist owned forum? or is that I am just getting unlucky being bombarded by preterists?

 

[Free]

Right now I don't see any possibility of being wrong.

Neither did, nor still does, Harold Camping.


Having just looked at some previous posts, I'm locking this for clean-up but it might not get reopened.

 

[Vic C.]

We need to get back on topic and we really need to stick to discussing issues, not people. Lets all try to do this without insulting each other, ok?

But I do want to address one thing. The Historicist may get some things wrong, but I believe they are right about the 70th.week. I fought it for years but once I understood it, it just clicked and made sense. Jesus did confirm a covenant with His people and gave them a way out of their transgressions. It was one of the reasons He was sent when He was; to complete Daniel's prophecy.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

He revealed this to His Apostles:

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

It was in essence, effective at His death:

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

That was 3 1/2 years after the start of His earthly ministry.

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Although many of the Jews continued with their old ways of atoning for their transgressions until the physical Temple was finally, once and for all time. destroyed. It was all for nothing. His death did cause the sacrifices and oblations to cease forever. He is the ultimate sacrifice, given to all who believe, by the Father.

That pretty much covers the first 3 1/2 years of Daniel's prophecy. The New Covenant was preached unto the Jews until the time of the stoning of Stephen and the time the Gospel was offered to and accepted by the first Gentile, Cornelius. That time span was, 3 1/2 years

That concludes the second half of Daniel's prophecy. To take that prophecy and rip it out of context, which is Messianic and not about any coming antichrist, does all the Messianic prophecies a great injustice. I'm sure the Jews of today get great joy out of us doing so. Daniel's prophecy points straight to our Messiah.

Remember, the target reader of Daniel were the Jews of Daniel's time.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Take note that it says it will make an end of sins. It doesn't say their sins would end right there and then. But it did give then the means in which they could atone forever. Paul says there is nether Jews nor Gentile any more. We are all brought to repentance and atonement the same way. Read Hebrews, which is all about the Jews who still thought it was possible to achieve this the "old" way.

There is no other way. There will be no need for another physical temple. Jesus is the Temple.

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
John 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
John 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

Since we are the Body of Christ, we also are that temple. Paul confirms this:

1 Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

They, in Daniel's time, were looking for the coming of their Messiah. What in the world would they know about an antichrist, when their Christ hadn't come yet and why would they even care?

 

[Vic C.]

So would you classify this is as a preterist owned forum? or is that I am just getting unlucky being bombarded by preterists?

The site is not owned by preterists. All reasonable End Times positions are allowed to be discussed here. One of the professors from the Dallas Theological Seminary (which is a pre trib school), I think it was Thomas Ice said, there is no one End Times belief that is 100% correct.

That is a true statement. If facing opposition to your position makes you feel uncomfortable, then that's something you should pray about.

I say that in all sincerity.

Neither did, nor still does, Harold Camping.


Having just looked at some previous posts, I'm locking this for clean-up but it might not get reopened.

I deleted a bunch of non-related posts and will reopen.

 

[OSASArminian]

Neither did, nor still does, Harold Camping.


Having just looked at some previous posts, I'm locking this for clean-up but it might not get reopened.

But Harold Camping had no evidence like I have with data points suppoting odds 83 trillion to 1 that go unchallenged. With Camping obviously there was no Nibiru planet May 21, 2011 and they pulled this trick back in 2002 making the same prediction about some stupid Nibiru thing. Surely you are not comparing apples to apples here.

That's the difference. Think about that.

 

[FrustratedForumer]

no one know the time! no one but Jesus/God

 

[OSASArminian]

We need to get back on topic and we really need to stick to discussing issues, not people. Lets all try to do this without insulting each other, ok?

But I do want to address one thing. The Historicist may get some things wrong,
but I believe they are right about the 70th.week. I fought it for years but once
I understood it, it just clicked and made sense. Jesus did confirm a covenant
with His people and gave them a way out of their transgressions. It was one of
the reasons He was sent when He was; to complete Daniel's prophecy.

Preterists are definitely wrong about the 70th week since obviously these are not Jesus' people. They are unsaved Romans. So it is very wrong to say they are the people of Jesus. And you can be 100% sure the second half of the 69th seven does not overlap the 1st half of the 70th seven since that is totally inconsistent with the consecutive 69 sevens. Moreover, no covenant is even made with 20/20 hindsight; there is no record of a 7 year covenant. Prophecy over 490 years is broken down into 7s because the it is the last seven that is required to be seven years. And lastly and most importantly, there was not reconcilation, end of transgression for Israel and such. They are still not God's people because they reject His. Jesus made no covenant with Israel for 7 years.

In all my years, I find Preterists sorta shut their minds down to these problems in their view an just hope I go away.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold
the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
He revealed this to His Apostles:
Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many
for the remission of sins.

It was in essence, effective at His death:

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the
That was 3 1/2 years after the start of His earthly ministry.

Nothing happened 3.5 years later. And Jesus' ministry was 3 years not 3.5. And you can't overlap the 2nd half of the 69th seven and the first half of the 70th seven. That does violence to the Scriptures. Surely you can see that.

This covenant is not the Old Covenant which God singularly covenanted with His people, for the use of the indefinite article "a" here proves it, hence it cannot pertain to Jesus' sacrifice.

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off,
but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy
the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto
the end of the war desolations are determined.

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in
the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to
cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate,
even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the
desolate.

Although many of the Jews continued with their old ways of atoning for their
transgressions until the physical Temple was finally, once and for all time.
destroyed. It was all for nothing. His death did cause the sacrifices and
oblations to cease forever. He is the ultimate sacrifice, given to all who
believe, by the Father.

There was no covenant for 7 years mentioned. Again, the 2nd half of the 69th seven can't overlap the 1st half of the 70th seven. You can't go from Dan. 9.26 the cross then to 70 AD 37 years later then to verse 27 back 37 years to the cross. That makes no sense. What is happening in Dan. 9.27 follows the Dan. 9.26 so it follows the destruction of the Temple. That's a big problem for your view.

These are not Jesus' people who destroy the Temple. They are Romans.

You can't be cut off and then after being cult off in Dan. 9.26 then make a covenant for one week. That makes no sense. And then in the midst of the week die again. Do you see how that makes no sense? You have to really yank the text around for your view. Whereas I don't have that problem with my view. It just flows.

Jesus didn't even cause the sacrifices and oblations to cease, for Israel continued right on doing them through the 1st and 2nd centuries and tried to reinstate them from time to time, and will do so again in the 3rd Temple before the Antichrist causes them to cease half way through the Tribulation.

You can't take Dan. 9.24 and says all these things will be fulfilled thousands of years after Jesus. No! Dan. 9.24 is dealing with an immediately consequence of the end of the prince with a flood. Jesus will destroy the Antichrist with a flood when an end of desolations are determined and the 70th seven fulfilled.

Israel is in sin. Dan. 9.24 is hardly fulfilled as would be required with your view.

After Daniel had confessed the sins of his people, God sent Gabriel to say this to him: "Seventy weeks are decreed upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy" (v.24). Since Daniel prayed to God for His people and His holy city, God in His answer also mentioned "thy people and thy holy city." Let us understand that "thy people" points to the children of Israel, and "thy holy city" refers to Jerusalem. What God means is this: When the seventy sevens are passed, the transgression of Israel and the holy city will be finished, their sins will come to an end, their iniquity will receive reconciliation, and the everlasting righteousness will be brought to them. They will accept the Lord. Have all these been fulfilled? No, the children of Israel continue today to be "Lo-ammi . . . not my people" (Hosea 1.9). Hence her restoration is yet in the future. These things still remain unfulfilled because the prophecy concerning the seventy sevens has not been fulfilled. But at the second coming of the Lord Jesus, all the prophecies shall be fulfilled.

We know the Anointed One did come after the sixty-nine sevens (seven sevens plus sixty-two sevens). From the time of the decree concerning the rebuilding of Jerusalem to the moment of the coming of the Anointed One, there were to be four hundred eighty-three years. Now that the sixty-nine sevens have already passed and the Anointed One (Christ) has also come, what is left is the last seven. As soon as the last seven is fulfilled the children of Israel will receive the fullness of blessing of Daniel 9.24. However, within the seven years of the death of Christ, was there any day which could have been deemed as a time when transgression was finished for the children of Israel and upon Jerusalem? No, not even a single day. And have there not been over nineteen hundred more years since the time of Christ and still no end of transgression? Hence, it is quite evident that the seventieth seven did not follow immediately after the sixty-nine sevens.

Why is it that this one seven has not been fulfilled and that the children of Israel have not yet received the full blessing? Because "after the threescore and two weeks shall the anointed one be cut off, and shall have nothing." Christ has died, and consequently the children of Israel did not receive the blessing. It was because they would not receive Him with willing hearts but crucified Him instead, and therefore punishment came upon them. "The people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary" (v.26). When the Jews insisted on killing the Lord Jesus, they openly declared: "His blood be on us, and on our children" (Matt. 27.25). Naturally God is treating them according to their own word by temporarily rejecting them and showing grace towards the Gentiles. But after the number of the Gentiles has been fulfilled, He will give grace once again to the children of Israel. And at that time, this last seven shall be fulfilled. As soon as the last seven is over, God will deliver the children of Israel according to promise (Dan. 9.24). Praise the Lord!

​

 

[OSASArminian]

That pretty much covers the first 3 1/2 years of Daniel's prophecy. The New
Covenant was preached unto the Jews until the time of the stoning of Stephen and
the time the Gospel was offered to and accepted by the first Gentile, Cornelius.
That time span was, 3 1/2 years

There was nothing about this happening 3.5 years later and even if it was then Dan. 9.24 should have been fulfilled thereafter and was not. In fact, when you think of it that way preterism is very disrespectful to the disciples who gave their lives under what was supposed to everlasting righteousness of "thy people" the Jews. You're trying to fit a seven year in but it really doesn't fit too well does it?

That concludes the second half of Daniel's prophecy. To take that prophecy and
rip it out of context, which is Messianic and not about any coming antichrist,
does all the Messianic prophecies a great injustice. I'm sure the Jews of today
get great joy out of us doing so. Daniel's prophecy points straight to our
Messiah.

Your view does great injustice because who would think Dan. 9.24 was fulfilled?

"Seventy weeks are decreed upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy [temple]" (v.24).

Holy city?
Transgressions finished?
End of sin?
Reconciliation for iniquity?
Everlasting righteousness?
Seal up vision? (John's vision included)
Prophecy fulfilled?
Most holy Temple annointed? It was destroyed in 70 AD.

Dan. 9.24 would occur upon the completion of the 70th seven but if the 70th seven was done 36.5 AD then Israel would have accepted their Messiah they themselves killed. Remember this is treating the Jews and their own everlasting righteous and holy annointing but we all know that's not happening with Israel right now is it?

Dan. 9.26 Jesus being "cut off" (no need to mention it is the end of the sacrifices as that is obvious). His people the Romans? tore down the temple and then jump to verse 27, yet yank this verse back to the cross in verse 26a? It's like how do you make a covenant for 7 years after you are dead? The one who tore the temple down in Dan. 9.26 (that is, his people) is the one who creates a 7 year deal then break it.

I think you have a big problem connecting a 7 year covenant with Israel's covenant with God because no such covenant is squashed down to 7 years so you have to allegorize it. Hence comes the inordinate allegorizing of the book of Relelation in all kinds of weird ways. Once you start allegorizing foolishly, sin builds upon sin.

Because you don't address these problems, realize the reason you don't because you can't. The preterist just shuts his mind down to these problems.

Remember, the target reader of Daniel were the Jews of Daniel's time.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon
thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to
make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and
to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Take note that it says it will make an end of sins. It doesn't say their sins
would end right there and then. But it did give then the means in which they
could atone forever. Paul says there is nether Jews nor Gentile any more. We are
all brought to repentance and atonement the same way. Read Hebrews, which is all
about the Jews who still thought it was possible to achieve this the "old"
way.

Daniel's prophecy does not leave us empty with Jesus' first coming but deals with the end of sin and brings in everlasting righteousness immediately which can't take place until after the Antichrist and when Jesus Himself returns. You are missing half of the everlasting righteousness, for first Jesus comes with authority of the cross; when He returns He returns with power to reign with a "rod of iron" over the nations with overcomers (Rev. 2.26, 20.4-6).

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition. Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. " (2 thess 2.3,4).

For the overspreading of wings of obamination is an idol, the Antichrist in the place of the cheribum over the ark, exalting himself as God.

Daniel deals with this and the NT builds on it.

If you knew nothing else, you know one thing that the 69th and 70th seven can't overlap that should be enough for you.

ere is no other way. There will be no need for another physical temple.
Jesus is the Temple.

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in
three days I will raise it up.John 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
John 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
Since we are the Body of Christ, we also are that temple. Paul confirms
this:
1 Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of
God dwelleth in you?

They, in Daniel's time, were looking for the coming of their Messiah. What in
the world would they know about an antichrist, when their Christ hadn't come yet
and why would they even care?

With the building of the 3rd Temple shortly to be completed by the 3rd day inspection of the lamb April, 20 2016, there is 2300 days from April 21 to Tisha B'Av Aug. 7, 2022 when Jesus steps down just as He had left.; this will be your sign as the Temple construction begins. You will have to change your view since you don't pay attention to existence evidence.

Even common sense should tell you the impetus drive behind the plan to build the Temple is sure to happen. Israel will not stop. They have all the items to go. Blueprints in hand. All that is needed is an excuse to get rid of th Dome on the Rock. This even right before our eyes is consistent with how I have read Daniel, but it is inconsistent with your view, so I can see you railing against the saints. How demonic preterism becomes in the world and influential to worship a false Christ.

We are a temple and Jesus is a temple. Jesus said "this temple". You are overusing this word to reject th Temple He reigns in 1000 years on earth. He is the one who reigns in the Temple for 1000 years on earth. Now this is the very Jesus of the Bible you reject from doing this, so you will try to stop Him and to try to stop Him you will side with Antichrist. That should be most disconcerting for you. What is the 1000 years all about? Rev. 20.4-6 says it is a reward to those who overcometh in Christ so a small franction of believers receive this reward of returning with Christ to reign in 7th 1000 year period. This is accoutnability for Christians, consequences for being a spiritual or carnal Christian.

After the 1000 years there is no more need of the Temple on earth as we are transferred livingly into the new earth and God and the Lamb will the center of the New City.

That's why Daniel is the greatest prophet of the OT because He is not just anticipating when Jesus returns and ends sacrifices but he is concerned with what happens after that. If Jesus is dead what happens to Him? He is resurrected when? When does He return and so forth would be questions in Daniel's mind. And he sees the Antichrist at work in men like Alexander the Great and Antochius IV as a foretaste about what the most evil will be like. And of course Revelation builds on that to identify who is specifically Neron Kaisar = 666 in Aramaic. Nero will be resurrected and take the body of the 7th and become the 8th, for Nero was one of the 5 fallen Caesars who died horrible deaths and the most evil man who ever lived. He killed most of his family members. That takes immense evil. Satan is given the key to the pit to relese Nero at Rev. 9.1 which is the middle of the 7 year Trib. Antichrist stops the sacrifices and the greatest war this world has ever seen ensues in the Great Tribulation lasting 42 months.

Print this out and pray on it over and over. Don't rush through this information.

 

[OSASArminian]

The site is not owned by preterists. All reasonable End Times positions are allowed to be discussed here. One of the professors from the Dallas Theological Seminary (which is a pre trib school), I think it was Thomas Ice said, there is no one End Times belief that is 100% correct.

That is a true statement. If facing opposition to your position makes you feel uncomfortable, then that's something you should pray about.

I say that in all sincerity.


I deleted a bunch of non-related posts and will reopen.

You can be sure that guy is dead wrong who said all end time views are not 100% correct. That would mean we don't have the truth available to us; but that would contradict God's word given to us to be correct.

Hence, all historicist views are false (amillennial, postmillennialim, preterism, partial preteristm, posttrib rapture onlyism and prewrath rapture onlyism).

Pretrib rapture onlyism and and midtrib rapture onlyism are false.

Only Partial Rapture is true. Learn about it.
The Partial Rapture Proof

I say this fully backed by God's word not just sincerity.

 

[OSASArminian]

no one know the time! no one but Jesus/God

Jesus knows and He told us when He was on earth that we can know after Israel becomes a nation (Matt. 24.32) even the day "right at the door" (v.33) though we can't know the hour (v.42). And we know by observing specific cosmological signs according to Joel 2.31 and Rev. 6.12 which occur before the Tribulation starts. After those are figured out we can figure out when the 2,520 day period is. Jesus steps down on the 2,520th day.

See opeing post.

 

[reba]

9 - Please keep posts down to a respectable length and provide source and/or links for your info. We want to respect copyrighted material. Plus, you stand a better chance of getting your post read if it contains a link with an excerpt from source that's relative to your point.