Are you prolife or prochoice?

[GodsRebel]

THANK YOU -

I'm so glad that there are some that are not quick to judge me b/c of my beliefs. I never said pro-abortion - I said pro-choice - there IS a difference.

Dude there's nothing wrong with being pro choice...it doesn't mean you're all for abortion. It just means you don't judge. It doesn't mean you would ever get an abortion. In most cases it doesn't mean encouraging an abortion (there are extreme people) I've never heard of a pro choice person telling someone they were evil for not having an abortion however.

 

[GodsRebel]

:o You SOOOOO need to be educated then my friend.

Being pro-choice means you support one's option to choose to take the life of an innocent life. As I said, pro-life is the only Christian position.

 

[GodsRebel]

:roll: Tell ya what - when your 11 year old daughter comes home pregnant, talk to me about abortion and how wrong it is - when your daughter is molested by her uncle and becomes pregnant, talk to me then about how wrong abortion is, when your wife is brutally raped and assaulted and becomes pregnant by her rapist, call me up then and we'll talk abortion, when someone you love becomes pregnant and is told if they have the baby they will die - then you talk to me about abortion, if someone you love is pregnant and is told the baby will be born a vegetable or has several things wrong with it - talk to me then about abortion. Until you've been in a situation like that, it's so easy to sit back and say this is right or this is wrong. I remember before having children, I would say, I'd never do so and so - um, boy did I eat my words. I hope to God you don't ever have to eat yours.

I still stand by my words - 'is the only." Just because some Christian groups take a pro-choice stand doesn't make it a Christian position, especially since they have affiliated with non-Christian groups.

If you actually read through that site, it is just a bunch of fluff. They talk about the typical "pro-life is anti-choice in all aspects of life," which isn't the issue at all. Here is some stuff from the site:

I want to acknowledge that some Christians believe that life begins at conception and therefore abortion is wrong. They are entitled to that perspective, even though both the biblical basis and the historical basis for it are flimsy. However, having said that they are entitled to that view, we must also acknowledge that millions of Christiansâ€â€indeed a majority of Protestants in this countryâ€â€have a different view, believing instead that a fertilized egg is potential life but not actual life. These Christians hold that the life, health, freedom, and moral agency of the pregnant woman are more important than the potential life in her womb. The religious liberty that lies at the bedrock of our free society provides a basis for people with these competing beliefs to live together in one society, assuredâ€â€we hopeâ€â€that government will not choose sides.
......
It is our responsibility as Christians who believe that God has given freedom to all of us –including womenâ€â€to do all in our power to keep Roe as the law of the land.

They have turned the debate into being about "freedom" in all things, which it clearly is not. They misuse Scripture (Matt. 5 - Jesus' compassion - we need to be like him) in a very poor attempt to support their position. They make assertions with no support - "a majority of Protestants believe...". This is also the Appeal to Popularity fallacy. Overall, they have provided nothing Christian to support their position.

It is a very unChristian site, IMHO.

 

[Grace Alone]

:roll: Tell ya what - when your 11 year old daughter comes home pregnant, talk to me about abortion and how wrong it is - when your daughter is molested by her uncle and becomes pregnant, talk to me then about how wrong abortion is, when your wife is brutally raped and assaulted and becomes pregnant by her rapist, call me up then and we'll talk abortion, when someone you love becomes pregnant and is told if they have the baby they will die - then you talk to me about abortion, if someone you love is pregnant and is told the baby will be born a vegetable or has several things wrong with it - talk to me then about abortion. Until you've been in a situation like that, it's so easy to sit back and say this is right or this is wrong. I remember before having children, I would say, I'd never do so and so - um, boy did I eat my words. I hope to God you don't ever have to eat yours.

Those are very extreme cases that seldom happen. Yes, I know that they do happen and they are complex issues. I'm not trying to belittle the horror and pain of women who are faced with such things, but the fact is that 95% of abortions are "birth control abortions." There are an incomprehensible number of women aborting there children who are not in the situations you listed.

 

[Free]

You SOOOOO need to be educated then my friend.

Then educate me. How is what I said different than what any pro-choicer has said? Abortion is murder, plain and simple. How can a Christian even justify supporting the choice to commit murder?

The argument that "a woman has a right to do with her body as she wants," really has nothing to do with the abortion debate. It is misleading and somewhat of a straw man to suggest that.

 

[GodsRebel]

:roll: Oh geez, I can tell I'll have to educate quite a few people on here then - excuse me, but where in the heck did you come up with that statitisic? BTW - it's NOT rare - it's just NOT reported - more later - I gotta go - I have a life outside of the puter - later

:roll: Tell ya what - when your 11 year old daughter comes home pregnant, talk to me about abortion and how wrong it is - when your daughter is molested by her uncle and becomes pregnant, talk to me then about how wrong abortion is, when your wife is brutally raped and assaulted and becomes pregnant by her rapist, call me up then and we'll talk abortion, when someone you love becomes pregnant and is told if they have the baby they will die - then you talk to me about abortion, if someone you love is pregnant and is told the baby will be born a vegetable or has several things wrong with it - talk to me then about abortion. Until you've been in a situation like that, it's so easy to sit back and say this is right or this is wrong. I remember before having children, I would say, I'd never do so and so - um, boy did I eat my words. I hope to God you don't ever have to eat yours.

Those are very extreme cases that seldom happen. Yes, I know that they do happen and they are complex issues. I'm not trying to belittle the horror and pain of women who are faced with such things, but the fact is that 95% of abortions are "birth control abortions." There are an incomprehensible number of women aborting there children who are not in the situations you listed.

 

[Free]

As Grace Alone has pointed out, the majority of abortions are those of "convenience;" those by people who were irresponsible in their sexual activity. People want to have their sex outside of the covenant of marriage without the responsibility of the consequences that can occur.

 

[GodsRebel]

For the love of God, read my posts - I'll be back later - gotta go -

You SOOOOO need to be educated then my friend.

Then educate me. How is what I said different than what any pro-choicer has said? Abortion is murder, plain and simple. How can a Christian even justify supporting the choice to commit murder?

The argument that "a woman has a right to do with her body as she wants," really has nothing to do with the abortion debate. It is misleading and somewhat of a straw man to suggest that.

 

[GodsRebel]

How do you know this? where do you get your info? :roll: you have not a clue do you? you poor dear, well, I'll fix that - :D

As Grace Alone has pointed out, the majority of abortions are those of "convenience;" those by people who were irresponsible in their sexual activity. People want to have their sex outside of the covenant of marriage without the responsibility of the consequences that can occur.

 

[Grace Alone]

How do you know this? where do you get your info? :roll: you have not a clue do you? you poor dear, well, I'll fix that - :D

As Grace Alone has pointed out, the majority of abortions are those of "convenience;" those by people who were irresponsible in their sexual activity. People want to have their sex outside of the covenant of marriage without the responsibility of the consequences that can occur.

Why do women have abortions?

75% say having a baby would interfere with work, school, or other responsibilities.

66% (about) say they cannot afford to have another child.

50% say they do not want to be a single parent, or have relationship problems with husband or partner.

Less than 2% have abortions because they became pregnant as a result of rape or incest.

Alan Guttmacher Institute, Facts in Brief: Abortion in the United States, 2000

http://www.mccl.org/abortion_statistics.htm

 

[Free]

For the love of God, read my posts - I'll be back later - gotta go -

Umm...I did. You haven't written anything educational.

You started on page 9 with one post: PRO-CHOICE. From there, all you have done is argue with me. That's it. What am I supposed to learn from?

 

[Grace Alone]

:D God's Rebel - I'm not picking on you here, but what you said to Free about needing to be educated got me thinking about something......

So often, I run into pro-choicers who think themselves so much more educated than their opponents, and I just don't understand, because if we follow the pro-choice arguement to it's logical conclusion, we must advocate murder, we must support the idea that human beings are worthless if someone deems them so, and we must concede that we all have the right to do what we feel regardless of it's effects on others.

Is it not the social liberals who are the biggest advocates of "human rights," and yet they are the biggest advocates of robbing an innocent individual of rights through abortion. It's beyond ironic.

 

[Grace Alone]

Oh, I missed your previous post about me needing to be educated too. Umm, thanks.

 

[Free]

lol :

 

[Grace Alone]

excuse me, but where in the heck did you come up with that statitisic? BTW - it's NOT rare - it's just NOT reported - more later - I gotta go - I have a life outside of the puter - later

BTW, the Guttmacher Institute - where I got my statistics - is an affiliate of Planned Parenthood, so please don't try to claim that I pulled them from some pro-life site that is reporting inaccurate information.

Where did you get your information?

 

[way2groovy1]

way2groovy,

Do you ever eat eggs?

Eggs come from chickens. I said "human" life.

 

[stray bullet]

Those are very extreme cases that seldom happen. Yes, I know that they do happen and they are complex issues. I'm not trying to belittle the horror and pain of women who are faced with such things, but the fact is that 95% of abortions are "birth control abortions." There are an incomprehensible number of women aborting there children who are not in the situations you listed.

How many women do you know that had abortions?

 

[Sinner_Saved_by_Grace]

So often, I run into pro-choicers who think themselves so much more educated than their opponents, and I just don't understand, because if we follow the pro-choice arguement to it's logical conclusion, we must advocate murder, we must support the idea that human beings are worthless if someone deems them so, and we must concede that we all have the right to do what we feel regardless of it's effects on others.

You've hit the nail on the head, Grace Alone. The basic mindset behind pro-choice thinking is "It's all about me and what I want, I don't care if it is murder or what God says thru His word about it. I want a life without consequences." In other words, the same basic humanism and "I'm gonna do it my way whether God likes it or not" attitude that we've all had to grapple with since the fall of Adam.

Is it not the social liberals who are the biggest advocates of "human rights," and yet they are the biggest advocates of robbing an innocent individual of rights through abortion. It's beyond ironic.

Exactly. In fairness, some social liberals are pro-life. Examples include Robert Casey the late Democratic governor of Pennsylvania, former Congresswoman, U.S. Ambassador to Ireland Margaret Heckler(a liberal Republican), former Boston mayor and U.S. Ambassador to the Vatican Raymond Flynn. The very left-wing actor Martin Sheen is pro-life as well according to this link- http://www.lifenews.com/nat462.html

 

[Grace Alone]

[quote="Grace Alone":3828c]

Those are very extreme cases that seldom happen. Yes, I know that they do happen and they are complex issues. I'm not trying to belittle the horror and pain of women who are faced with such things, but the fact is that 95% of abortions are "birth control abortions." There are an incomprehensible number of women aborting there children who are not in the situations you listed.

How many women do you know that had abortions?[/quote:3828c]

And your point is what, precisely?

 

[Arnold Philips]

Pro-choice.

Although I am against abortion in most cases, it's much more realistic to allow them, seeing as they will happen anyhow. IMO, counseling clinics are needed to inform women about abortions -- their physical and mental effects, the long and short term effects. I would rather a women have a safe and clean abortion in a medical setting than a back alley abortion that doesn't help anyone.