Are you prolife or prochoice?

[Blue-Lightning]

It would be difficult to classify anything that "forced" into existing within an organism as a parasite. It would also be difficult to do since a parasite is an organism which feeds off of another organism... the relationship between the embryo/fetus and the maternal organism isn't the same since the maternal organism is biologically designed to sustain the offspring both prenatal and postnatal.

BL

 

[atmosphere]

Vic:

BL, it is really sad and a poor reflection on society when a convicted, cold-blooded murderer has more of a right to life than a innocent unborn child...regardless of how that child was conceived. Makes me want to cry.

yeah- that is sad... but let's take a look at that cold-blooded murderer... he wasn't born a cold blooded killer, he turned into that by way he was raised- and the things that happened to him during his life. let's examine shall we? from the beginning:
he was probably born to a mother who didn't really care for him... she's young and clueless- but kept the baby because she couldn't afford an abortion (or it was illegal, they used to be, remember that?)- so she does what she can to raise her little boy... both of them are probably more hungry than they are satisfied. the only way she can get money to take care of herself and her child is from the gov't (title 19 and food stamps/Quest card)... she can't get a job, because she can't afford day care- so who's gonna watch the baby? so now they're a drain on society... she probably grows jaded, and cares less and less for her child- ultimately ignoring him and doing what makes her "happy"... because she doesn't care anymore- <cut to 35 years later>- that boy has turned into a "cold blooded murderer." You need to seriously do some deep thinking and praying about that cold blooded killer... he's no more evil than you or i... he was just missing something in his life that would have given him another option than killing to get what he needs (which may turn to killing for fun, because he cares not for the society that has turned it's back on him). try to understand where that man is coming from- try to understand what it must feel like to have never gotten a warm hug in your life. then tell me how loving you'd be! remember, he was once also a "helpless child" or an "innocent baby inside of her womb."
you can used the same analogy for a child in a home for unwanted children... how do you think that will affect his emotional growth?
not to mention: if first trimester abortions are banned, that's not gonna stop the real problem- so now there's going to be these young girls with no hope when they get pregnant. forcing them to have the child isn't going to force them to love the child... sure "adoption, the loving option" but have you ever tried to take a child from it's mother? if she has carried this baby for 9 months, she's gonna have a hell of a time giving it up. So, you forced her to carry full term... but now you're going to declare her unfit as a mother and now you're going to take the child away. i would rather shoot a gov't official in the head, than let him control my life... wouldn't you?
OR! if first trimester abortions are banned... think of all the girls who are going to get illegal abortions... remember those? the reason abortions were made legal in the first place... girls were butchered and most likely killed themselves when they had abortions- it didn't stop them from getting them... sure- you can crack down on illegal abortions- fine, whatever you want to do... but now they're going to mexico to get their bellies sliced open with a steak knife, and sewn back together with used dental floss... not pretty is it? but that's how it is!!
the point is, we can't change a woman's desire to get an abortion- therefore we should not take that option from her (within limits of course, like the first trimester). there are other ways to handle this situation. Go talk to that "cold blooded murderer" and try to find out how you can help his salvation... He's here. He's alive... that aborted fetus is not. There's still time for that man. who's soul can you still save? those lonely helpless mothers who are clinging to a hope that their boyfriends really do love them like they said they did? yes. That "cold blooded murderer"? of course... the question is though- do you want to? why are you here making a stink about "the poor defenseless babies being aborted... i want to cry for them... it makes me sooo sad... poor babies... <waaaaaaaa>"
what are you doing about it? NOTHING!!!! you're sitting here talking about it, when you have NO IDEA what the inner city is like... YOU HAVE NO IDEA what it feels like to be in that scenario!

yeah yeah yeah... go ahead and tell me that "through Christ, all things are possible"... i know. I'm the PRIME example of that... but news flash folks- those girls don't know God. That "cold blooded killer"... he desn't know God either... When his mom was struggling to feed him, i doubt she was reading the bible to him, or taking him to sunday school... teaching him about love. no. she was worried about how they're going to eat- sometimes violence is the only way for the lost soul. so don't sit there on your high horse worried about your image and trying to say "save the helpless babies"... no! worry not about them... fix what you can. the man in jail- tell him that even though no one else may love him, God does! and that's all that matters! tell him it's no more his fault that he's a "cold blooded killer" than it is the fault of the fetus' that it's been aborted. because it's not! and if you think it is, you are wicked.

making first trimester abortions illegal is not going to make things better, it's going to make them worse. i know it frieghtens you to think it's true, but oh well! i didn't make it that way- it just is. but fear not, for there is hope. God can help these people... so pray for them. do not make their decisions for them.

 

[atmosphere]

okay- i was wrong! and i'm sorry. i thought about it and this is how i feel:
abortions are wrong! it should be stopped. my concern was with the mothers... their "options." instead of people trying to keep it legal, they should fight to get these girls some truth... we should fight so these girls can know God, and know that through Him they can raise the child. even though it's going to be EXTREMELY difficult, it isn't impossible!

i'm sorry if i sounded arrogant before- that wasn't my intention. It saddens me as much as it does you to see a girl have an abortion- not only because of the unborn child, but because of her own confusion and despair... i fully intent to do my best (with my company) to show them that with God's help, and abortion is not neccesary...
man, i have to go pray now and really focus on how i'm going to do it.

 

[Blue-Lightning]

i fully intent to do my best (with my company) to show them that with God's help, and abortion is not neccesary...
man, i have to go pray now and really focus on how i'm going to do it.

Glad to hear that you have come to that conclusion. My only wish is that it could spread to others so that all could see the greviance that is "abortion." Now, with that in mind:

that is sad... but let's take a look at that cold-blooded murderer... he wasn't born a cold blooded killer, he turned into that by way he was raised- and the things that happened to him during his life.

Nope, can't agree with that. Most kids who are raised in bad situations seem to struggle in life, that much is true. But there are kids who are raised in terrible situations that overcome it all to go on and make the world a better place. There are kids raised in the best situations and from those kids come good and selfish people. Alghough our environment heavily influences us, don't believe for a minute that free will is gone... you can find the "exceptions" all around us.

If we don't recognize that, then Mr. Serial Killer's situation is just a blame game all the way back to Adam. Because his parents didn't treat him wrong because they were mean, it was because they were raised incorrectly, etc.

if first trimester abortions are banned, that's not gonna stop the real problem- so now there's going to be these young girls with no hope when they get pregnant. forcing them to have the child isn't going to force them to love the child... sure "adoption, the loving option" but have you ever tried to take a child from it's mother?

Sounds to me then that we are just choosing the "easiest" way out with abortion... seems to me there's a bigger problem that needs to be taken care of. Let's save the children and their mothers.

what are you doing about it? NOTHING!!!! you're sitting here talking about it, when you have NO IDEA what the inner city is like... YOU HAVE NO IDEA what it feels like to be in that scenario!

We all have different callings that we do. Just like you aren't restricted to only talking about issues on this board (which can be helpful), neither am I. I work very hard at church with poverty-stricken youth. I also teach hispanic immigrants English so that they can get decent jobs and participate in society. I do understand the problems that plague all socioeconomic factions of our society, even if I have not experienced this personally.

abortions are wrong! it should be stopped. my concern was with the mothers... their "options." instead of people trying to keep it legal, they should fight to get these girls some truth...

No foul; I understand where you were coming from and I can see how your desire was with good intention. But see, when we realize that it's wrong then we are able to understand why others feel it isn't and we can show them the truth. The truth is that a unique little person is being developed inside of women - a unique little person that doesn't stop developing after it is removed from the womb... unless it is dead. Let's help women know that there is help out there for them if they keep their babies, and let's let them know that it really and truly is just that - a baby, a fetus, a little person being nurtured and protected by their mother. Let's not let the biological part of us do a better job of taking care of them than the mental part of us.

Thank you Atmosphere. You are my friend, and you have been since you came here. Don't ever think otherwise.

BL

 

[cubedbee]

It would be difficult to classify anything that "forced" into existing within an organism as a parasite. It would also be difficult to do since a parasite is an organism which feeds off of another organism... the relationship between the embryo/fetus and the maternal organism isn't the same since the maternal organism is biologically designed to sustain the offspring both prenatal and postnatal.

BL

No, technically a fetus isn't a parasite, but it is more akin to one than it is to a part of the woman's body. A fetus feeds off its mother while giving no health benefits in return. In fact, it causes many health dangers. Even if a woman intentionally swallowed a tapeworm, she would have the right to remove it. If you deny the humanity of a fetus, despite being genetically human, then you could argue that the woman has the same right to remove it.

 

[atmosphere]

i felt sick after i wrote that post before my last... there was something in me that was saying something wasn't right... God was trying to tell me something- you know what it was? it was how i was saying things.. i wasn't saying what i was really thinking- that's the hardest thing for me to do. i get real emotional over my thoughts and beliefs, which is a bad mixture, because it makes it alot harder to actually speak in words what it is i'm thinking. God told me in this case i was WAY off!
in that funny little way God works sometimes- i got my son tonight... for the first time in his life, we get to be alone and spend the weekend together. He's an angel that God made special for me- so i can see things in a new way... and it's weird because this morning when i wrote that- i totally forgot that i was picking Gavin up... and i just felt empty- like God turned His back on my for a little while... letting me know that I need to pray a little more about the situation that i wrote about... and i wanted to appologize again to everyone here- i mean no disrespect, or harm. it's easy to get carried away on this message board because, frankly, i'll never have to see any of you- that's where my old problems (arrogance and self-righteousness) start to get in the way. so my bad-

BUT! the other things i've written about- i still hold strong to... (BL, you know which ones those are)- that is why i felt the need to announce it here that i am human and messed up! so that you know, when i'm wrong, i'll admit it! i'm not stubborn... or at least TOO stubborn (lol :D )

well- i'm out. take care of them kids y'all... they're our only hope!

 

[giftsbymatthew]

pro life

life begins at conception. Thank God that God recieves all the unborn children who are killed by their own parents. Thank God he recieves them into his kingdom. No it is not a choice we are dealing with here but a child. The choice should be keep or let the baby be adopted into a loving family. The choice should be what is this gifts name going to be not weather or not to kill this life, no matter how many months it has been.

 

[Sinner_Saved_by_Grace]

Are you prolife or prochoice and why.

When it comes to abortion, perhaps the question should be is Jesus pro-life or pro-choice? I've yet to find a scintilla of evidence that even suggests Jesus was or is anything but pro-life. Notice in Luke 1:41(NASB), "And it came about that when Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit." The word used is not "fetus" or "potential human life" but baby. Also, while not Scriptural, the early church historical document of the Didache(dated somewhere between A.D. 60- A.D. 100) states in chapter 2:2 "thou shalt not kill a child by abortion, neither shall thou slay it when born." While the Didache is not canonical and while it's also true that the early church could and did err at points(after all, they were only human), I have great trouble believing that if Jesus truly liked and wanted abortion that that statement opposing something Jesus was in favor of would have ever made it in there so relatively soon after His death and resurrection.

Therefore, until someone can convince me otherwise thru Scripture or reliable historical evidence, I will continue to believe Jesus was and is pro-life and I'll agree with Him.

 

[Vic C.]

Therefore, until someone can convince me otherwise thru Scripture or reliable historical evidence, I will continue to believe Jesus was and is pro-life and I'll agree with Him.

And I agree with you. :angel:

 

[spclone36]

I am Pro-Life:

I am Pro-Life!!!

Abortion is murder. One of the 10 COMMANDment is Thou Shalt NOT Kill!!!

 

[marvsgon]

Pro Life...

What is important is the Value of life and not the quality of life..

 

[Texas Lynn]

I'm pro choice because it's not right for the government to try to control a woman's body.

 

[Blue-Lightning]

:roll:

Can you murder? No. Is that an action performed with the body? Yes. Consider your body controlled.

BL

 

[Ana'riel]

I'm pro-choice in that I don't judge people who have abortions. I do believe that the government shouldn't tell people what to do with their bodies. I also think people would still get abortions if it was illegal.

Pro choice is really just not judging people. I've never heard a pro choice person encourage someone to get an abortion, if anything they just say "it's your choice" In my experience only pro lifers get mean (I did say 'n my experience'so don't jump all over me)

 

[Blue-Lightning]

I'm pro-choice in that I don't judge people who have abortions.

I'm pro-choice in that I don't judge people who rape.

I do believe that the government shouldn't tell people what to do with their bodies.

I do believe the government shouldn't tell people what to do with their bodies.

I also think people would still get abortions if it was illegal.

I also think people would still rape if it was illegal.

Pro choice is really just not judging people. I've never heard a pro choice person encourage someone to get an abortion, if anything they just say "it's your choice"

Pro-choice is really just not judging people. I've never heard a pro-choice person encourage someone to rape, if anything they just say "it's your choice."



See why that's a poor argument?

BL

 

[Ana'riel]

Blue, I expected better from you than that! :

Listen dude, rape isn't the saem as abortion. Lets look at the consequences, rape causes lifelong psychological problems, abortions cause death, which Christians should know leads to heaven

But even still, I didn't get an abortion even though I wanted one (and now I'm glad I didn't :D ) but I'm also not going to say someone is evil for getting an abortion, especially if it was the result of incest. I wasn't trying to argue, this is just the way I feel. I don't feel that calling them evil helps anything.

 

[Blue-Lightning]

Listen dude, rape isn't the saem as abortion.

I know, that's why I chose it for the comparison.

Lets look at the consequences, rape causes lifelong psychological problems, abortions cause death, which Christians should know leads to heaven.

So would you be in favor of allowing mothers to kill their one year-olds if they choose to not continue the childhood? If not, what is the difference?

Still, I haven't called anyone evil... I say the act of abortion is evil almost always, but I don't know what's going on in each, individual case.

BL

 

[Ana'riel]

"So would you be in favor of allowing mothers to kill their one year-olds if they choose to not continue the childhood? If not, what is the difference?"

Well, I'm not for abortion..that's what you have to understand. I would try and discourage it, I have my own testimony (of how I didn't get an abortion and now I'm glad cause I love my baby) However, it would be worse to kill a one year old cause they know life. An aborted baby never knows life and in fact goes straight to heaven. That doesn't mean I'm for abortion though.

I just don't judge...and I would probaly call myself pro life except apparently I can't (according to most of the pro lifers I know personally)

 

[Blue-Lightning]

Well, I'm not for abortion..that's what you have to understand.

I understand that... but to be in favor of it being legal is crazy in my humble opinion. I don't mean that to sound mean, it's just that in this crazy world, we have this horrible atrocity that we live with and it's just nuts that we wouldn't want to keep people from harming the most innocent people in the world - the unborn.

An aborted baby never knows life and in fact goes straight to heaven. That doesn't mean I'm for abortion though.

But an aborted baby knows the sound of its mother's voice. It knows the feeling of pain. It dreams. It remembers. It's learning quite a bit about life before it ever exits the womb.

BL

 

[Vic C.]

...Lets look at the consequences, rape causes lifelong psychological problems, abortions cause death, which Christians should know leads to heaven.

Hello there Ana'riel. I also wish not to argue with you but I feel people need to know that abortions DO lead to psychological problems as well.

But even still, I didn't get an abortion even though I wanted one (and now I'm glad I didn't :D )

:D I'm glad you didn't either.

but I'm also not going to say someone is evil for getting an abortion, especially if it was the result of incest. I wasn't trying to argue, this is just the way I feel. I don't feel that calling them evil helps anything.

I don't think anyone here would go as far as calling the person evil...just the act of abortion itself.

Getting back to the psychological problems...please all, take a look at the testamony of former model and actress Jennifer O'Neil.

http://www.operationsaveamerica.org/str ... speaks.htm

• ( :x - stupid apostrophe)

*excerpt from site*

...Testifying to the U.S. Senate, Jennifer spoke on the abortion that she suffered years ago saying, "I paid for my abortion my whole life." She was speaking on behalf of a ministry she started called Women Deserve better. She bought into the lies of the abortion industry. The lie that came straight from the pit of hell, "It's just a blob of tissue." The Senate may take a closer look if we approached the subject from a post-abortive view; those who have suffered mental, emotional, and spiritual pain. There is so much damage and on-going pain left on those after abortion. She commented on the statistics, on what happens to a woman physically after an abortion, about how her risk of breast cancer goes up 32%. About the risk of having repeat miscarriages and that killing your baby never goes away.

Most women don't want to have an abortion, but because of the pressure from family members, financially, social pressure, the father not wanting it, they fold. Jennifer said, "I folded because the father didn't want it. I was told by my parents and by my doctor that it was just a blob of tissue." Then Jennifer stopped the interview and announced," Angela, I have some grand news. My parents live with me and I was just going off to speak at a church for the weekend. Having just finished my editing for my healing from abortion tape and video, I was gathering information and I was talking to my parents about Christ and on the abortion issue. I was able to give them some information and some pictures of a developing baby. When I came home they came up to me and they had tears in their eyes and said 'We never realized.' That's the point, Angela; we have to get the truth out. If resources and options are given to those who find themselves with an unexpected pregnancy, emotional support, financial support, adoption, grants to get through school, nursery care. If you give them their options, really and truly, their choice will be life."...

This happened to Jennifer during a NJ Right to Life Convention Dinner. An indication on how the media reacts to such an issue.
http://www.njrtl.org/convention2003.php

Jennifer O'Neil spoke about her life as an actress and her experience as a post abortive woman. O'Neil has bravely taken up the mantle to speak out about abortion and all its devastating physical and emotional effects on women, including an increased risk of developing breast cancer. Convention attendees watched a video of a recent airing of the TV Program, "The View" which featured Jennifer O'Neil speaking about her ministry to the very hostile members of the show. O'Neil provided an example of the ostracism she has endured by Hollywood after appearing on the show when one of her clients informed her that they would not be needing her services. Despite this reaction, O'Neil said she will continue to tell the truth that "abortion is a business and that women who have had an abortion tend to suffer terribly as a result."