[_ Old Earth _] Arguments Creationists should Not use

[bibleberean]

I thought this might be of some value to creationists and skeptics as well.

Arguments we think creationists should NOT use

From Answers in Genesis

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/ar ... nt_use.asp

The primary authority for Answers in Genesis is the infallible Word of God, the Bible (see Q&A Bible). All theories of science are fallible, and new data often overturn previously held theories. Evolutionists continually revise their theories because of new data, so it should not be surprising or distressing that some creationist scientific theories need to be revised too.

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[pfilmtech]

Thank you bibleberean. It's nice to see that some people actually takd the time to research these things and understand both sides of the argument.

 

[Heidi]

I thought this might be of some value to creationists and skeptics as well.

Arguments we think creationists should NOT use

From Answers in Genesis

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/ar ... nt_use.asp

The primary authority for Answers in Genesis is the infallible Word of God, the Bible (see Q&A Bible). All theories of science are fallible, and new data often overturn previously held theories. Evolutionists continually revise their theories because of new data, so it should not be surprising or distressing that some creationist scientific theories need to be revised too.

[/b]

Sorry, but the bible does not revise its statements. But many people do not believe the bible even though many of them call themselves Christians. The word of God has not changed for thousands of years. But again scientists change their theories every generation. And that is a true statement so I will use it.

 

[Frost Giant]

Every time the Bible is translated, the meaning becomes skewed a little more. Unless you can read Hebrew, you haven't read the original Bible.

 

[Heidi]

Every time the Bible is translated, the meaning becomes skewed a little more. Unless you can read Hebrew, you haven't read the original Bible.

But Genesis has not, which you will see when you read earlier translations. So sorry, but your attempts to discredit the bible for the theories of men won't work. Satan just loves to do things like that. :evil:

 

[Frost Giant]

Discredit the Bible? The Bible discredits itself; there's no evidence to support any of the events in the Bible.

 

[Grengor]

That's qutie untrue. There are some events that probably happened.
But that doesn't mean every one did.

 

[Guest]

Every time the Bible is translated, the meaning becomes skewed a little more. Unless you can read Hebrew, you haven't read the original Bible.

But Genesis has not, which you will see when you read earlier translations. So sorry, but your attempts to discredit the bible for the theories of men won't work. Satan just loves to do things like that. :evil:

If Genesis has not, what happened to Lilith? In some versions she was the first woman in others it starts with Eve, this would seem to indicate a change.

How do you know other parts of Genesis were not changed at the Council of Nicea or as it was passed on orally for thousands of years?

 

[Heidi]

Discredit the Bible? The Bible discredits itself; there's no evidence to support any of the events in the Bible.

This is one of the most ignorant statements you can make. All tribes, peoples, cities, kings, kingdoms, etc. can be documented by all the cultures the bible talks about. Every single one of them! There are still cities and mounts of Nimrod, the first king of Mesopotamia, that exist tpday in the Middle East. Kings, Nebachudnezzar, Cleopatra, the Queen of Sheba, David, Solomon, the Pharoahs, the kings of Israel, Judea, Pontius Pilate, Herod the Great, Herod Antipass, Augustus Caesar, Tiberius, Alexander the Great, and on and on can all be documented by outside sources.

The Cities of Jerusalem, Bethlehem, Meggido, Jericho, Caesarea, Tiberius, Galilee, Nazareth, Capernaum, Magdelon, etc. still exist today. The Egyptians document the Jews existence in Egypt for 400 years, the Babylonians acknowledge the Jewish exile in Babylon, and every single Jew today knows which tribe of which he is a descendant. Not only can the bible be documented, it is extremely detailed with the dates of wars, peoples, kingdoms, kings and events that all the cultures about which it writes, all agree with those events. It has been shown to be the most accurate history book ever written. So your statement that it cannot be documented is not only hogwash but based on a severe lack of research. You need to get out more!

 

[Heidi]

In addition, Jesus fulfilled at least 333 OT prophesies that were written about him thousands od years before he came on the earth, and the world is going exactly the way the bible prophesied! The faith of people is growing cold and Christian persecution is escalating. Christmas is now being replaced with "the holiday season", we can't mention the name of Jesus in our schools much less pray, and it is becoming increasingly more difficult to openly worship Christ anywhere in the world. 50% of Europe's churches are being abondoned for the "New Age" movement, false teachings are becoming so nuermous, especially with global communication, that every man thinks he himself has the truth, and creationism is being replaced with the notion that humans came from animals in our shcools. Jesus said that when we are hated by all nations because of him, the end will come. And that is escalating exponentially in each generation.

So you are not only ignorant of the bible and/or outside historical sources, but of the trends in our current society today. So I suggest you do your research before making statements that are blatantly false!

 

[cubedbee]

Discredit the Bible? The Bible discredits itself; there's no evidence to support any of the events in the Bible.

This is one of the most ignorant statements you can make. All tribes, peoples, cities, kings, kingdoms, etc. can be documented by all the cultures the bible talks about. Every single one of them!

Huh, imagine that. You would think that every single person in the world would be a Christian then, since there's 100% proof the Bible was authored by God. Funny that's not the case.

There are still cities and mounts of Nimrod, the first king of Mesopotamia, that exist tpday in the Middle East.

Oh, you mean this That something that was built thousand and thousands and thousands of years after Nimrod and is named after him. This doesn't give support that he existed any more than the city of Rome gives support that it's mythical founder Romulos existed.

Kings, Nebachudnezzar, Cleopatra,

You must have a pretty interesting version of the Bible if Cleopatra is in there. What chapter and verse does it talk about her. You know she died in 30BC, a generation before Christ lived or the NT was written, but hundreds and hundreds of years after the OT was written?

the Queen of Sheba, David, Solomon, the Pharoahs, the kings of Israel, Judea, Pontius Pilate, Herod the Great, Herod Antipass, Augustus Caesar, Tiberius, Alexander the Great, and on and on can all be documented by outside sources.

Hmm, what's the verse for Alexander the Great?

The Cities of Jerusalem, Bethlehem, Meggido, Jericho, Caesarea, Tiberius, Galilee, Nazareth, Capernaum, Magdelon, etc. still exist today. The Egyptians document the Jews existence in Egypt for 400 years,

Oh, did they. Please, link to a reference.

the Babylonians acknowledge the Jewish exile in Babylon, and every single Jew today knows which tribe of which he is a descendant.

That's pretty ridiculous. Talk to a single Jew yourself to prove that is wrong. I just asked Jewish my roommate, and she busted out laughing at what you said.

 

[Heidi]

Discredit the Bible? The Bible discredits itself; there's no evidence to support any of the events in the Bible.

This is one of the most ignorant statements you can make. All tribes, peoples, cities, kings, kingdoms, etc. can be documented by all the cultures the bible talks about. Every single one of them!

Huh, imagine that. You would think that every single person in the world would be a Christian then, since there's 100% proof the Bible was authored by God. Funny that's not the case.

There are still cities and mounts of Nimrod, the first king of Mesopotamia, that exist tpday in the Middle East.

Oh, you mean this That something that was built thousand and thousands and thousands of years after Nimrod and is named after him. This doesn't give support that he existed any more than the city of Rome gives support that it's mythical founder Romulos existed.

[quote:85fb4] Kings, Nebachudnezzar, Cleopatra,

You must have a pretty interesting version of the Bible if Cleopatra is in there. What chapter and verse does it talk about her. You know she died in 30BC, a generation before Christ lived or the NT was written, but hundreds and hundreds of years after the OT was written?

the Queen of Sheba, David, Solomon, the Pharoahs, the kings of Israel, Judea, Pontius Pilate, Herod the Great, Herod Antipass, Augustus Caesar, Tiberius, Alexander the Great, and on and on can all be documented by outside sources.

Hmm, what's the verse for Alexander the Great?

The Cities of Jerusalem, Bethlehem, Meggido, Jericho, Caesarea, Tiberius, Galilee, Nazareth, Capernaum, Magdelon, etc. still exist today. The Egyptians document the Jews existence in Egypt for 400 years,

Oh, did they. Please, link to a reference.

the Babylonians acknowledge the Jewish exile in Babylon, and every single Jew today knows which tribe of which he is a descendant.

That's pretty ridiculous. Talk to a single Jew yourself to prove that is wrong. I just asked Jewish my roommate, and she busted out laughing at what you said.[/quote:85fb4]

It's not the case because people prefer sin to God's word and it will always be that way. When given the chance to be rich and powerful and have as many relationships with the opposite sex or God's word, virtually every person would choose the former! They will call God a liar and a myth but only when natural disasters occur will then then turn to God. Sorry, but God is no fool. He cannot be mocked. And since you haven't a clue what that means now, you'll have to wait until you die to find out. :wink:

Then she doesn't know very much about the temple in which she worships...that is, if she even takes her religion seriously at all. But I bet you the her ancestors know from which tribe they descended. There are Levitical Jews who descended from the Levites, The Juahan Jews, (who are the remnant), and each jew today is a descendant of one of 12 tribes. And all practicing Jews can trace their ancestry back.

 

[Heidi]

Then by your reasoning, cubedbee, no historical figures existed because all of the cities and monuments were named after fictitious people. This is so illogical to the point of bizarre. Yet the "Lost" city of Atlantis is still believed to have been on the earth even though there is zero proof of it! So again, evidence doesn't factor in at all for your beliefs because you simply deny some buildings, cities, monuments, and not others. That's like me declaring that Caesar didn't live either because the witnesses were lying and people built monuments from a fictional name. But I sure know the truth without any evidence. Again, there's no rational basis for your beliefs, except your imagination. Sorry, but I believe those who lived in ancient times over you. So it doesn't do any good to present evidence for the bible because you can look it in the face and deny it even when it's right in front of you. 8-)

 

[Heidi]

Then by your reasoning, cubedbee, no historical figures existed because all of the cities and monuments that were named after fictitious people. This is so illogical to the point of bizarre. Yet the "Lost" city of Atlantis is still believed to have been on the earth even though there is zero proof of it! So again, evidence doesn't factor in at all for your beliefs because you simply deny some buildings, cities, monuments, and not others. That's like me declaring that Caesar didn't live either because the witnesses were lying and people built monuments from a fictional name. But I sure know the truth without any evidence. Again, there's no rational basis for your beliefs, except your imagination. Sorry, but I believe those who lived in ancient times over you. So it doesn't do any good to present evidence for the bible because you can look it in the face and deny it even when it's right in front of you. 8-)

 

[Guest]

The Cities of Jerusalem, Bethlehem, Meggido, Jericho, Caesarea, Tiberius, Galilee, Nazareth, Capernaum, Magdelon, etc. still exist today.

So because Troy has been found to be real does that mean everything in the Iliad is true?

Also the prophesies in the Bible like horoscopes are rather ambiguous they could be made to be true by applying them to many different people or events.

The faith of people is growing cold and Christian persecution is escalating. Christmas is now being replaced with "the holiday season", we can't mention the name of Jesus in our schools much less pray, and it is becoming increasingly more difficult to openly worship Christ anywhere in the world..

What Christian persecution? "The Holiday Season" has been used for at least what a decade and all of a sudden a few yellow journalists and others want to make it like people are attacking a Christian holiday (that incorporates pagan traditions). The Holiday Season is used to encompass all holidays this time of year. Self-centered Christians might not notice it, but there are more holidays than just theirs and it is sad they can't be more tolerant of them.

That people can't mention Jesus in schools is just hyperbole because people can mention Jesus in the schools. I went to a public schools and people including teachers said his name and guess what there was no raid by the ACLU, no raging, rapid atheists charging the school board, or any other the other hyperbolic situations politicians and others use to frighten people in order to feed the paranoia and persecution complex in Christians?

Oh and I didn't see you answer my question about the apparent change in Genesis of Lilith being removed.

 

[cubedbee]

Oh and I didn't see you answer my question about the apparent change in Genesis of Lilith being removed.

You are mistaken. There is no version of Genesis which contains Lilith. The Torah is the Jewish written Law and contains Genesis---this written record has never contained Lilith. The Talmud is the Oral Law of the Jews, the detailed commentary on all aspects of the Written Law, which is regarded as authorative by Jews, but is not accepted by Christians. The Talmud is where all references to Lilith appear.

 

[Heidi]

The Cities of Jerusalem, Bethlehem, Meggido, Jericho, Caesarea, Tiberius, Galilee, Nazareth, Capernaum, Magdelon, etc. still exist today.

So because Troy has been found to be real does that mean everything in the Iliad is true?

Also the prophesies in the Bible like horoscopes are rather ambiguous they could be made to be true by applying them to many different people or events.

The faith of people is growing cold and Christian persecution is escalating. Christmas is now being replaced with "the holiday season", we can't mention the name of Jesus in our schools much less pray, and it is becoming increasingly more difficult to openly worship Christ anywhere in the world..

What Christian persecution? "The Holiday Season" has been used for at least what a decade and all of a sudden a few yellow journalists and others want to make it like people are attacking a Christian holiday (that incorporates pagan traditions). The Holiday Season is used to encompass all holidays this time of year. Self-centered Christians might not notice it, but there are more holidays than just theirs and it is sad they can't be more tolerant of them.

That people can't mention Jesus in schools is just hyperbole because people can mention Jesus in the schools. I went to a public schools and people including teachers said his name and guess what there was no raid by the ACLU, no raging, rapid atheists charging the school board, or any other the other hyperbolic situations politicians and others use to frighten people in order to feed the paranoia and persecution complex in Christians?

Oh and I didn't see you answer my question about the apparent change in Genesis of Lilith being removed.

The Iliad never claimed to be the word of God! So comparing the bible to the Iliad is like comparing appels to oranges. :o And your argument that you know better than the people who lived then is so ludicous that it gives you zero credibility. Again, the bible can be documented but you have to throw out the history of other cultures in order to keep your arguments. That's the degree of absurdity you have to go to keep your arguments!

Hello? People didn't seem to mind calling Christmas the celebration of Christ's birth for hundreds of years but now they do. How is that endorsing Christianity? :o

Have you been to public schools lately? Now the government wants to take "In God we trust" off our money which has been on our money since the founding of this country. You have to live in "La la" land not to see the trend in our country to take God out of anything they can. It's all over the news.

So since you aren't living in reality, then I can see why you haven't a clue what's true and what's false.

Do you go to forums to argue the existence of Lilith? :o Do you argue with people who believe in Santa Claus? :o Why do you not try to take Santa Claus out of Christmas since it's a fairy tale? :o So why do you want Christ out of Christmas if you believe he's a fairy tale? :o Your contradictions are endless. :evil:

 

[armed2010]

Have you been to public schools lately? Now the government wants to take "In God we trust" off our money which has been on our money since the founding of this country. You have to live in "La la" land not to see the trend in our country to take God out of anything they can. It's all over the news.

Uh, Heidi, you need to brush up on your history. In God We Trust was added on during the 1950's.

 

[Wertbag]

In addition, Jesus fulfilled at least 333 OT prophesies that were written about him thousands od years before he came on the earth, and the world is going exactly the way the bible prophesied!

Can you supply some examples of the OT prophesies that relate to Christ? I've seen quite a few listed that are really tentitive connections at best.

 

[Heidi]

In addition, Jesus fulfilled at least 333 OT prophesies that were written about him thousands od years before he came on the earth, and the world is going exactly the way the bible prophesied!

Can you supply some examples of the OT prophesies that relate to Christ? I've seen quite a few listed that are really tentitive connections at best.

Go to: http://www.new-life.net/chrtms14.htm for a list of prophecies.