Armageddon or Harmagedon

[JudaicChristian]

Armageddon or Harmagedon: Revelations 16:16. "and in the Hebrew language it is called Armageddon."
There is no word "Armageddon" in the Hebrew language; the word Armageddon is a contraction and mistranslation for the words,"Mount of the Congregation Zion".

Ar / ma / ged / don. Also: Har / ma / ged / on.
Har / edah / siyyon.
Har: Mount or Mountain.
Edah or Mowed: Assembly, Community or Congregation.
Siyyon: Zion.

Revelations 16:13-16. And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and that beast, and out of the mouth of a false prophet.
14. For they have evil spirits, working miracles for the rulers of the earth and the whole world, to gather them togather to do battle against God Almighty on that great day.
15. Watch, I come like a thief. Blessed is he that keeps watch, and keeps his cloths, or else he will walk naked, and people will see his shame.
16. And they gathered them together to that place, and in the Hebrew language it is called; Mount of the Congregation Zion.

Isaiah 29:8. So will it be with the hordes of all the nations that fight against Mount Zion.

Have you read: The Dead Sea Scrolls in English. By G. Vermes ISBN:0-14-022779-2, or: The Book of Enoch. Translated by R.H. Charles. ISBN 0-281-01261-x

It is a presumption by some scholars, and not a fact, that Megiddo is a battlefield described in the Bible, in relationship to Revelation 16:16, as a place of a predicted final struggle between good and evil. Some believe that the name may be taken from that of the battlefield of Megiddo valley. See Judges 5:19.
The word "Megiddo" appears in scripture twelve times, and never with the word "Har" for (Mount) in front of it. The word "Megiddon" is a King James translation in the Old Testament only; and in Revelation 16:16, the King James uses the word spelling "Armageddon". The Valley of Megiddo and Armageddon have no biblical relationship.
King James Version: Zechariah 12:9-11. And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications; and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they will mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
11. In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as (Like) the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

There is no scripture to support that the valley of Megiddo is a gathering place for Zion.

 

[JudaicChristian]

Matthew 21:5
"Say to the Daughter of Zion, 'See, your king comes to you, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.' "

John 12:15
"Do not be afraid, O Daughter of Zion; see, your king is coming, seated on a donkey's colt."

Romans 9:33
As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

Romans 11:26
And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.

Hebrews 12:22
But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels (messengers) in joyful assembly,

1 Peter 2:6
For in Scripture it says: "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

Revelation 14:1
Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.

 

[Adullam]

Armageddon or Harmagedon: Revelations 16:16. "and in the Hebrew language it is called Armageddon."
There is no word "Armageddon" in the Hebrew language; the word Armageddon is a contraction and mistranslation for the words,"Mount of the Congregation Zion".

Ar / ma / ged / don. Also: Har / ma / ged / on.
Har / edah / siyyon.
Har: Mount or Mountain.
Edah or Mowed: Assembly, Community or Congregation.
Siyyon: Zion.

Revelations 16:13-16. And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and that beast, and out of the mouth of a false prophet.
14. For they have evil spirits, working miracles for the rulers of the earth and the whole world, to gather them togather to do battle against God Almighty on that great day.
15. Watch, I come like a thief. Blessed is he that keeps watch, and keeps his cloths, or else he will walk naked, and people will see his shame.
16. And they gathered them together to that place, and in the Hebrew language it is called; Mount of the Congregation Zion.

Isaiah 29:8. So will it be with the hordes of all the nations that fight against Mount Zion.

Have you read: The Dead Sea Scrolls in English. By G. Vermes ISBN:0-14-022779-2, or: The Book of Enoch. Translated by R.H. Charles. ISBN 0-281-01261-x

It is a presumption by some scholars, and not a fact, that Megiddo is a battlefield described in the Bible, in relationship to Revelation 16:16, as a place of a predicted final struggle between good and evil. Some believe that the name may be taken from that of the battlefield of Megiddo valley. See Judges 5:19.
The word "Megiddo" appears in scripture twelve times, and never with the word "Har" for (Mount) in front of it. The word "Megiddon" is a King James translation in the Old Testament only; and in Revelation 16:16, the King James uses the word spelling "Armageddon". The Valley of Megiddo and Armageddon have no biblical relationship.
King James Version: Zechariah 12:9-11. And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications; and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they will mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
11. In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as (Like) the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

There is no scripture to support that the valley of Megiddo is a gathering place for Zion.

What? Never heard of this. Your Hebrew construction makes no sense. Edah is spelled ayin dalet hay.... no gimel there. Zion begins with a tsadik. No such letter in Armageddon. Har Megiddo makes sense at least. Your alternative is not even in the ballpark here. Did you get this on your own? :gah

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[JudaicChristian]

Armageddon or Harmagedon: Revelations 16:16. "and in the Hebrew language it is called Armageddon."
There is no word "Armageddon" in the Hebrew language; the word Armageddon is a contraction and mistranslation for the words,"Mount of the Congregation Zion".

Ar / ma / ged / don. Also: Har / ma / ged / on.
Har / edah / siyyon.
Har: Mount or Mountain.
Edah or Mowed: Assembly, Community or Congregation.
Siyyon: Zion.

What? Never heard of this. Your Hebrew construction makes no sense. Edah is spelled ayin dalet hay.... no gimel there. Zion begins with a tsadik. No such letter in Armageddon. Har Megiddo makes sense at least. Your alternative is not even in the ballpark here. Did you get this on your own? :gah

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What I am saying is that the words Armageddon and Harmagedon are misspelled. Those words do not accure in any ancient writtings. There is no mountain called Megiddo.

 

[JudaicChristian]

• Compare these scriptures.

Isaiah 29:8
as when a hungry man dreams that he is eating, but he awakens, and his hunger remains; as when a thirsty man dreams that he is drinking, but he awakens faint, with his thirst unquenched. So will it be with the hordes of all the nations that fight against Mount Zion.
Revelation 16:13,14 and 16

13. Then I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14. They are spirits of demons performing miraculous signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty. 16. Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon. (Mount of the Congregation Zion)

 

[Adullam]

• Compare these scriptures.

Isaiah 29:8
as when a hungry man dreams that he is eating, but he awakens, and his hunger remains; as when a thirsty man dreams that he is drinking, but he awakens faint, with his thirst unquenched. So will it be with the hordes of all the nations that fight against Mount Zion.
Revelation 16:13,14 and 16

13. Then I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14. They are spirits of demons performing miraculous signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty. 16. Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon. (Mount of the Congregation Zion)

Ok you are onto something here. But there has to be a deeper mystery present, since Armageddon doesn't directly translate from the Hebrew as you would have it to mean. So we have a type or hidden meaning here. This is quite common.

The problem is that we don't see the word written in Hebrew. Are there silent letters like ayin or aleph contained within? So we must go by the more logical Har Megiddo....so why the mountain? That is the real question it would seem.

 

[JudaicChristian]

• Compare these scriptures.

Isaiah 29:8
as when a hungry man dreams that he is eating, but he awakens, and his hunger remains; as when a thirsty man dreams that he is drinking, but he awakens faint, with his thirst unquenched. So will it be with the hordes of all the nations that fight against Mount Zion.
Revelation 16:13,14 and 16

13. Then I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14. They are spirits of demons performing miraculous signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty. 16. Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon. (Mount of the Congregation Zion)

Ok you are onto something here. But there has to be a deeper mystery present, since Armageddon doesn't directly translate from the Hebrew as you would have it to mean. So we have a type or hidden meaning here. This is quite common.

The problem is that we don't see the word written in Hebrew. Are there silent letters like ayin or aleph contained within? So we must go by the more logical Har Megiddo....so why the mountain? That is the real question it would seem.

I believe the first part is correct, Har in Hebrew meaning Mount. Whoever translated Revelation from Hebrew into Greek or Latin simply misspelled the word. See Strong's Dictionary under "Assembly." And also "Zion." Those words sound close to "mageddon."Possibly "mageddon" is a misspelled contraction of those words.

 

[JudaicChristian]

mow`ed = or moled {mo-ade'}; or (feminine) moweadah (2 Chronicles 8:13) {mo-aw-daw'}; from 'ya`ad' (3259); properly, an appointment, i.e. a fixed time or season; specifically, a festival; conventionally a year; by implication, an assembly (as convened for a definite purpose); technically the congregation; by extension, the place of meeting; also a signal (as appointed beforehand):--appointed (sign, time), (place of, solemn) assembly, congregation, (set, solemn)
feast, (appointed, due) season, solemn(-ity), synogogue, (set) time (appointed).

`edah = feminine of '`ed' (5707) in the original sense of fixture; a stated assemblage (specifically, a concourse, or generally, a family or crowd):--assembly, company, congregation, multitude, people, swarm. Compare '`edah' (5713).

 

[RND]

Is the Strong's is wrong? How do you get Har Edah Siyyon out of Harmegeddon?

Ar / ma / ged / don. Also: Har / ma / ged / on.
Har / edah / siyyon.
Har: Mount or Mountain.
Edah or Mowed: Assembly, Community or Congregation.
Siyyon: Zion.

What I am asking is how does one get Har Edah Siyyon out of Harmegeddon?

This is the logical equivalent of using "shoe" to describe a "motor boat."

BTW, 'edah is used for the description of a "group or gathering in the form of a community" whereas "mow`ed" is used for a "specific gathering" and "appointed time, place and meeting." Usage means everything. The only time the people gathered in Jerusalem was for "an appointment, i.e. a fixed time or season" like the feasts and festivals (such as the day of Atonement).

Moving on we would first have to eliminate the the "congregation, mount" usages in Numbers 20:22 and 27 because these refer specifically to Mount Hor where Aaron died - that is in Edom, not Judah. This leaves 2 possibilities.

1) Psa 74:2 Remember thy congregation, [which] thou hast purchased of old; the rod of thine inheritance, [which] thou hast redeemed; this mount Zion, wherein thou hast dwelt.

This is a simple plea by David to remember the people God purchased, by Jesus Christ (the Rod) His inheritance, whom He redeemed  Mount Zion, where God dwelt.

2) Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Well, it can't be this usage because Isaiah is describing Satan through the imagery the king of Babylon.

So, that leaves us with Psalms 74:2 and 'edah here is simply used to describe a "group" of people, like describing a group of Canadians or Samoans. People. So, where does the "Mount of the Congregation" derive. Where is it born is scripture.

Keep in mind there are 404 verses in Revelation. 276 have either a direct or related link to the Torah and tanakh. That leaves 128 verses that have no relation to the Torah and tanakh. How then is Revelation 16:16 related to the Torah and tanakh?

mow`ed = or moled {mo-ade'}; or (feminine) moweadah (2 Chronicles 8:13) {mo-aw-daw'}; from 'ya`ad' (3259); properly, an appointment, i.e. a fixed time or season; specifically, a festival; conventionally a year; by implication, an assembly (as convened for a definite purpose); technically the congregation; by extension, the place of meeting; also a signal (as appointed beforehand):--appointed (sign, time), (place of, solemn) assembly, congregation, (set, solemn)
feast, (appointed, due) season, solemn(-ity), synogogue, (set) time (appointed).

`edah = feminine of '`ed' (5707) in the original sense of fixture; a stated assemblage (specifically, a concourse, or generally, a family or crowd):--assembly, company, congregation, multitude, people, swarm. Compare '`edah' (5713).

 

[RND]

Armageddon or Harmagedon: Revelations 16:16. "and in the Hebrew language it is called Armageddon."
There is no word "Armageddon" in the Hebrew language; the word Armageddon is a contraction and mistranslation for the words,"Mount of the Congregation Zion".

Ar / ma / ged / don. Also: Har / ma / ged / on.
Har / edah / siyyon.
Har: Mount or Mountain.
Edah or Mowed: Assembly, Community or Congregation.
Siyyon: Zion.

Revelations 16:13-16. And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and that beast, and out of the mouth of a false prophet.
14. For they have evil spirits, working miracles for the rulers of the earth and the whole world, to gather them togather to do battle against God Almighty on that great day.
15. Watch, I come like a thief. Blessed is he that keeps watch, and keeps his cloths, or else he will walk naked, and people will see his shame.
16. And they gathered them together to that place, and in the Hebrew language it is called; Mount of the Congregation Zion.

Isaiah 29:8. So will it be with the hordes of all the nations that fight against Mount Zion.

Have you read: The Dead Sea Scrolls in English. By G. Vermes ISBN:0-14-022779-2, or: The Book of Enoch. Translated by R.H. Charles. ISBN 0-281-01261-x

It is a presumption by some scholars, and not a fact, that Megiddo is a battlefield described in the Bible, in relationship to Revelation 16:16, as a place of a predicted final struggle between good and evil. Some believe that the name may be taken from that of the battlefield of Megiddo valley. See Judges 5:19.
The word "Megiddo" appears in scripture twelve times, and never with the word "Har" for (Mount) in front of it. The word "Megiddon" is a King James translation in the Old Testament only; and in Revelation 16:16, the King James uses the word spelling "Armageddon". The Valley of Megiddo and Armageddon have no biblical relationship.
King James Version: Zechariah 12:9-11. And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications; and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they will mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
11. In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as (Like) the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

There is no scripture to support that the valley of Megiddo is a gathering place for Zion.

Is this your post (are you "Micheal the Archangel") or did you use this post without reference: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-rel ... 6917/posts

In that it was "copied" verbatim I would suspect it's a "copy & paste" job. I know if I had written this I would have said, "I wrote this back in 2007."

 

[RND]

Honestly mdo757 I think you stepped in it and really have no way out. I did a search on "The Dead Sea Scrolls in English. By G. Vermes harmageddon" on Google and got only 6 results.

Two of those results are from "forums."

I did a search on The Book of Enoch. Translated by R.H. Charles harmageddon on Google and got only 14 results.

Four of those results are from "forums."

Fortunately, R.H. Charles translation of the Apocrypha book can be found here and here: Sacred Texts

Do you have anything at all that is a scholarly take that could lead us to the conclusion you would like us to believe that Armageddon or Harmagedon somehow a "misspelling."

 

[RND]

Whoever translated Revelation from Hebrew into Greek or Latin simply misspelled the word.

The Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ was originally written in Greek, not Hebrew thus there was no necessity to translate the book from Hebrew to Greek.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/revelation.html

 

[JudaicChristian]

Whoever translated Revelation from Hebrew into Greek or Latin simply misspelled the word.

The Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ was originally written in Greek, not Hebrew thus there was no necessity to translate the book from Hebrew to Greek.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/revelation.html

According to ancient documents and a ancient historian, the New Testament was originally written in Hebrew; with some exceptions for Pauls writtings. And yes I am Michael. If you don't like my post, then don't read them.

 

[Adullam]

Whoever translated Revelation from Hebrew into Greek or Latin simply misspelled the word.

The Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ was originally written in Greek, not Hebrew thus there was no necessity to translate the book from Hebrew to Greek.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/revelation.html

According to ancient documents and a ancient historian, the New Testament was orininally written in Hebrew; with some exceptions for Pauls writtings. And yes I am Michael. If you don't like my post, then don't read them.

And then there are the Aramaic primacists! Can you say Peshitta?

 

[RND]

According to ancient documents and a ancient historian, the New Testament was orininally written in Hebrew; with some exceptions for Pauls writtings.

Who? Any cites or just fact less statements?

And yes I am Michael. If you don't like my post, then don't read them.

Cite your work, use solid exegesis. Which, unfortunately, I have yet to see you do. If there is indeed a misspelling it should be rather easy to note.

 

[RND]

And then there are the Aramaic primacists!

Yea, but I've never seen Revelation 16:16 questioned.....

Can you say Peshitta?

5th century.....

 

[JudaicChristian]

The Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ was originally written in Greek, not Hebrew thus there was no necessity to translate the book from Hebrew to Greek.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/revelation.html
According to ancient documents and a ancient historian, the New Testament was orininally written in Hebrew; with some exceptions for Pauls writtings. And yes I am Michael. If you don't like my post, then don't read them.

And then there are the Aramaic primacists! Can you say Peshitta?

Yes of course, there was also the Aramaic.

 

[JudaicChristian]

And then there are the Aramaic primacists!

Yea, but I've never seen Revelation 16:16 questioned.....

Can you say Peshitta?

5th century.....

Since there is no such word as Armageddon or Harmegeddon, then that would suggest that there is a problem.

 

[RND]

And then there are the Aramaic primacists!

Yea, but I've never seen Revelation 16:16 questioned.....

Can you say Peshitta?

5th century.....

Since there is no such word as Armageddon or Harmegeddon, then that would suggest that there is a problem.

Cite something of scholar insight....please. Otherwise your are just citing opinion.

 

[JudaicChristian]

Cite something of scholar insight....please. Otherwise your are just citing opinion.

Why don't you show some scholarly proof that I am in error.