'art': Can it be inspired by Satan?

[Imagican]

There is MUCH 'art' that is accepted througout the Christian community that IS considered to BE inspired FROM ABOVE. That will NOT be the issue concerning this thread. The issue IS: Can 'art' be INSPIRED By Satan. Is there a 'form of art' that IS able to negatively influence those that PARTAKE of it?

MEC

 

[handy]

I agree that art can be 'inspired' by Satan, but I'm not sure what you mean by a 'form' of art. I think that anything that can be used to glorify God can also be perverted into something negative.

A good example would be dancing, a form of art. David danced before God rejoicing and glorifying Him. Yet dance can also be used in a negative manner. Or take photography. I have this set of photos on my pc that I use for wallpaper. Each one is a photo of God's beautiful creation, taken by a Christian with the motive of glorifying God. But then, there is pornography, certainly a perversion.

 

[Imagican]

handy,

You basically understood what I meant by 'form'. For 'art' is NOT simply ONE medium. AS you have illustrated: dancing can be considered 'art'. So too could something like 'martial arts', bonzai plants, caligraphy, etc....... I offered the use of the word 'form' to attempt to encompase ALL 'art'.

Thanks for your imput.

MEC

 

[Relic]

Satan uses ANY form of 'art' as a seduction.

Actors consider themselves to be "artists". Look how huge the pornography industry is! these pervs claim to be "actors" and "phographers".

I've even seen grossly perverted religious art are displayed in museums of all places! Artists dared to put the Christ crucified inside a jar of filled with human urine. Disgusting! Andsome people weren't so repelled, but were on the side of it being "artictic expression". That is where the shame lies, in the fact that some people aren't repelled or speak out against such atrocious displays.
So yes, Satan can and does use ALL FORMS OF ART as a means of inspiring those who think it an art form to pervert. Any form of Perversion IS from Satan, period. Be it in the form of chocolates molded into pervers object during easter or any other time, be it in the form of movies of which the actors are claiming to be just "acting" and claim "acting" as they are doing is just an art. Whatever. Satan takes what is Holy and distorts!

Horror movies are Satans tools also. But you wouldn't convince the people involved in the making of such movies. They would all say, it's art in the making. Every scene, every action, every word spoken in the making of such HORRIBLE movies, they claim IS art.

Even some Christians say watching horror movies is just harmless fun. I disagree. It's allowing the evil things to be used as a form of entertainment. I wouldn't think it much different than being involved in the act of fornication or hedonism. I believe that Satanism is fast as work "inspiring" people to create perversion in many different 'artistic' forms. Walk into any Spencer's gift shop and you will see plenty products that Have been "decorated" with perverted designs. Greeting cards for one, there are plenty enough of those that are artistically designed to inject into the mind a perverted thought, all through the design on the card. Don't even have to have words to relay the perverted message!
And to think of another means of perverse inspirations people get from the spirit of Satan.... Some people even decorate cakes as would Satan have them decorate the cake!!!! Yes, Satan uses every means of desing to "inspire" others to do his dirty deeds in as many "artistic" forms as anyone could ever imagine.

And far too many people fall for "the whiles of the devil" and think it's all just a bunch of harmless fun. :-?


.

 

[handy]

I agree.

I do think though that the answer to the problem isn't for the Christian to shy away from art, but rather to embrace it and to use it to glorify God. Has Hollywood pumped evil into the world with its cesspool of degrading movies. Yes. But film can be used to produce films that glorify God and tell of His greatness as well. Books can contain all kinds of perversions, but then the Bible itself is made up of many books that are inspiried by God Himself.

Paul said that he was willing to become all things to all people so that Christ can be known to all. I think the antedote to the overwhelming amount of bad art out there, is for the Christians to be all the more busy using art to glorify God before men.

 

[Imagican]

Satan uses ANY form of 'art' as a seduction.

Actors consider themselves to be "artists". Look how huge the pornography industry is! these pervs claim to be "actors" and "phographers".

I've even seen grossly perverted religious art are displayed in museums of all places! Artists dared to put the Christ crucified inside a jar of filled with human urine. Disgusting! Andsome people weren't so repelled, but were on the side of it being "artictic expression". That is where the shame lies, in the fact that some people aren't repelled or speak out against such atrocious displays.

ok OK!!!!

See, you DO get it.

Now, let's SEE if we can take a BIGGER LEAP of FAITH.

Relic,

HOW can we be ASSURED that such instances ARE NOT performed? in other words, let's say God were to offer us GUIDANCE................ How could He offer us SOUND advice to PREVENT even the POSSIBILITY of such an occurance? HOW would He WORD such a 'command'?

So yes, Satan can and does use ALL FORMS OF ART as a means of inspiring those who think it an art form to pervert. Any form of Perversion IS from Satan, period. Be it in the form of chocolates molded into pervers object during easter or any other time, be it in the form of movies of which the actors are claiming to be just "acting" and claim "acting" as they are doing is just an art. Whatever. Satan takes what is Holy and distorts!

And He doesn't ONLY distort in OBVIOUS WAYS. Some of His distortion is SO CLOSE to the TRUTH that it would be ALL but impossible for ANYONE NOT GUIDED BY THE SPIRIT to TELL the TRUTH. NEVER forget that Satan IS the 'Father of LIES'. His ABILITY to deceive has NO LIMITS other than we WEAR the COMPLETE ARMOUR of God EVERY SECOND. And ONCE he is ABLE to 'convince', EVEN those that profess Christ as their Savior, that 'something is OK', each successive generation has a HARDER AND HARDER time RECOGNIZING the LIE. That is HIS BIGGEST TOOL; TIME. And THAT Is why at one point God WILL put an END to his ABILITY to influence mankind.At ONE POINT God will 'take away' Satan's TIME.

Horror movies are Satans tools also. But you wouldn't convince the people involved in the making of such movies. They would all say, it's art in the making. Every scene, every action, every word spoken in the making of such HORRIBLE movies, they claim IS art.

You are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. For these 'movies' APPEAL to the WORLD. ANYTHING that is NOT Holy is 'something else'. There IS NO GREY MATTER when it comes to God. EVERYTHING IS BLACK OR WHITE. We have been TOLD that one CANNOT serve TWO masters. And that those that LOVE this world ARE ENEMIES of God. The ENTIRE 'Holywood scene' IS JUST another PART of 'the world'. The World RECOGNIZES it and LOVES IT.

You will find FEW actors that will openly profess a 'belief' in God or Christ, (some, but not many). But you can find MANY that proclaim to BE 'scientologists', Bhuddists, Cabalists, and there were a NOTORIOUS amount of 'Jews' in the movies industry in it's infancy. But FEW professing Christians. And even the one's that DO profess to BE Christians are in MANY movies that YOU KNOW are ANYTHING BUT, Christian in nature.

Even some Christians say watching horror movies is just harmless fun. I disagree. It's allowing the evil things to be used as a form of entertainment. I wouldn't think it much different than being involved in the act of fornication or hedonism. How about this?: Wouldn't watching Horor movies BE the 'entertaining of DEMONS that we have been WARNED against? I believe that Satanism is fast as work "inspiring" people to create perversion in many different 'artistic' forms. You are an ASTUTE observer. Walk into any Spencer's gift shop and you will see plenty products that Have been "decorated" with perverted designs. Greeting cards for one, there are plenty enough of those that are artistically designed to inject into the mind a perverted thought, all through the design on the card. Don't even have to have words to relay the perverted message!
And to think of another means of perverse inspirations people get from the spirit of Satan.... Some people even decorate cakes as would Satan have them decorate the cake!!!! Yes, Satan uses every means of desing to "inspire" others to do his dirty deeds in as many "artistic" forms as anyone could ever imagine.

And far too many people fall for "the whiles of the devil" and think it's all just a bunch of harmless fun. :-?

Ah, words of WISDOM my friend. Now, once again. If God were to offer advice that could PREVENT even the POSSIBILITY of 'creating' such perversion, WHAT WOULD HIS WORDS BE? What EXACT 'language' would He USE in order to GUIDE us to an IMPOSSIBILITY of 'stumbling'?

.

 

[handy]

I don't believe that Satan has a creative bone in his body. All he does is corrupt what should be to God's glory. But, that doesn't lesson the fact that just as we were made in God's image, and God is first and foremost the Creator, we have the capability to create things to the glory of God.

I think you are trying to force something that is for the next world, not this one. As long as this world exists, and evil exists in this world, you will not be able to accomplish what you seem to be trying to accomplish here.

What will wind up happening is the type of Phariseeism (making up a word here) that Jesus denouced while He was here: an effort on man to impose their version of God's law upon everyone else. There is no way we can live in this world without the possibility of stumbling.

(and why do I get the sneaking suspicion that this is an end-run around the locked Graven Images thread?)

 

[GraceBwithU]

I

(and why do I get the sneaking suspicion that this is an end-run around the locked Graven Images thread?)

lol amen handy

 

[Imagican]

I don't believe that Satan has a creative bone in his body. All he does is corrupt what should be to God's glory. But, that doesn't lesson the fact that just as we were made in God's image, and God is first and foremost the Creator, we have the capability to create things to the glory of God.

And WHAT does the 'artist' offer that is OF GOD? ILLUSION. What's ANOTHER word for illusion? Ever WONDER where my user name comes from? I'll tell you and this a FIRST here on the forum. For MANY years I was a professional perfoming MAGICIAN. I WAS an illusionist and a 'slieght of hand' EXTROIDINARE. Not JOKING. Just offering a bit of HONESTY. Not PROUD of it but is IS the TRUTH. Have met the 'greatest of my generation' and performed with some of them. No, you've NEVER heard of me. You've NEVER heard of MOST. EVEN some that are MUCH more TALENTED than Copperfield. We were a 'dime a dozen' then and they STILL are. Some are just NOT as devoted as others. The answer to my question is this: LIES. Illusions are 'something that SEEMS to BE different than what it APPEARS'.

I think you are trying to force something that is for the next world, not this one. As long as this world exists, and evil exists in this world, you will not be able to accomplish what you seem to be trying to accomplish here.

NO, I will NEVER accept that. There MUST be those ABLE to 'resist the wiles' of the DEVIL. There MUST BE. I can't BELIEVE that God hasn't seen FIT to enable SOMEONE to overcome. There MUST be. If not in this country then SOMEWHERE. For IF I were to 'accept' what YOU have just offered, there is NO HOPE. And I simply DO NOT believe that Our Father would ABANDONE us.

What will wind up happening is the type of Phariseeism (making up a word here) that Jesus denouced while He was here: an effort on man to impose their version of God's law upon everyone else. There is no way we can live in this world without the possibility of stumbling.

Oh NO, my dear. I'm not offering MY OWN words. I KNOW you MUST have READ THE WORD. Have I offered ANYTHING that is AGAINST The Word? Stumble we may. But that does NOT MEAN that we MUST conform to the rudiments of this world. That does NOT mean that we CANNOT overcome. For there IS hope, and through FAITH ANYTHING is POSSIBLE.

(and why do I get the sneaking suspicion that this is an end-run around the locked Graven Images thread?)

NO, please dont' do that to me or our Father. The REASON that the 'graven images' thread was locked is due to the 'conflict' and Catholic attack that was percieved. But you and I have been able to KEEP this civil WIthout the STRIFE or ATTACKS that were generated by the other.

I have PURPOSELY attempted to ATTACK NO ONE in particular. I have been as DISCRETE as POSSIBLE and have not EVEN mentioned this being ANYTHING other than a CHRISTIAN issue. I had HOPED that this issue could be discussed NOT on WHO 'created the acceptance' of such, but WHAT IT IS. Have I NOT been as civil as one could be expected to BE?

ALL I asked in the beginning handy is to LISTEN. I have YET to TELL you ANYTHING other than what "I" am LED to say. NO accusations, no belittlement for lack of understanding, as CORDIAL as I know HOW to be.

Let's try a little something DIFFERENT:

I have TOLD you what I USE to BE, professionally. I am a CARPENTER now. I remodel homes. MOST skills involved I DO; from framing to drywall, plumbing to electrical, painting, trim etc.......... But I have TOLD you what I ONCE did as far as employment is concerned.

Do you KNOW Satan? Have you MET him? Know what he LOOKS like?

Do you BELIEVE that there ARE those that DO know Satan? That there are those that ARE personal 'FREINDS' of Satan. That there ARE those that KNOW WHAT he LOOKS Like?

I know, (this guy's a NUT, right')? I wish. I wish that it were such a 'silly' situation' that it could be simply 'laughed off' like it's a JOKE. He IS REAL. He OWNS this planet and EVERYTHING on it. He IS able to offer riches, fame, glory, EVEN TALENT to ANYONE that WORSHIPS him and EVEN MORE to those that are ABLE to 'bring others TO him'.

Hey, people, PLEASE tell me that I am NOT The ONLY ONE. Someone MUST know the SAME Things that I'm saying here. I CAN NOT BE THE ONLY ONE? Can you imagine how WRONG that would BE? I sometimes CAN relate to the EXACT 'feelings' the prophets MUST have experienced. These THINGS that I once thought EVERY Christian WOULD KNOW seem to be UTTERLY foriegn to them. This is just TOO MUCH to even comprehend.

My point is that I KNOW who my father WAS. Not only was I a practicing magician, (you know, the guys that do 'magic tricks', 'stage illusions' and such). But that WASN'T 'enough. I bought EVERY book that I could FIND that dealt with 'black magic'. Everything short of actual books on Satanism. I know JUST ABOUT every 'trick' offered by those of the PAST that 'claimed' to BE witches, sorcerers, etc........... There are MANY chemical reactions that, (I'm SURE), would have TOTALLY convinced those of the past that were ignorant of such that those that PERFORMED them WERE somehow POWERFUL. Spiritually gifted you might say.

Without even being aware for MOST of my life, Satan WAS 'my father'. I didn't OUTRIGHT ever 'worship him'. But looking back, that is EXACTLY what I was doing. I was LIVING FOR NOTHING BUT THIS WORLD. I STILL haven't been able to COMPLETELY 'overcome it'. But I'm WORKING ON IT.

So, there you have it. One able to OPENLY admit WHO Satan IS. And one that KNEW him PERSONALLY. When I FIRST became aware and 'rebelled against' his INFLUENCE, I didn't THINK I was going to BE ABLE. I honestly THOUGHT that he would KILL me, (or have someone under his influence do it. Yeah I know, crazy huh?), but WATCH THIS: Is Satan a man or a woman? The TRUTH: he can be EITHER. He can take WHATEVER form he CHOOSES. Remember.........HE IS the Father of LIES. He can be ANYTHING that he CHOOSES. Did YOU know THAT? He can be ME 'or' YOU. He can be seducer or seductress. He IS androgenous. Gay, masculine, feminine, or DEITY if you LET him take this 'persona'.

I believe that I've 'said too much'. Perhaps TOO much for MOST to 'handle' at ONE TIME.

We ARE living in 'different' times than those of the PAST. And there IS more INFORMATION that we HAVE learned since the time of the apostles. Do you DOUBT that God WISHES for US to KNOW the TRUTH. And that that TRUTH has EXPANDED? That we ARE able to UNDERSTAND MORE now than EVER? And that works in ALL ways. Not ONLY are we able to build rockets to the moon and telephones that offer instant access to ANYONE around the world, but even the father of lies has become MORE exposed than ever. But will ANYONE heed the information offered other than that which is ABLE to fulfill their lustful souls? Hmmmmm....... I wonder...........

I'll close with this, handy..........

Do you BELIEVE that we were 'created' in the IMAGE Of God? Do you KNOW that we are LIKE God? Do you realize that upon MAKING us in HIS image that He GAVE us the CAPACITY to BE LIKE HIM? I know, blasphemy right? WRONG. ALL I am offering is the TRUTH. The ONLY difference between US and God is MATURITY. We simply HAVEN'T been in existence LONG ENOUGH to 'Spiritually mature'. This sounds CRAZY huh? Ever HEARD something SO OUTRAGEOUS before in ALL your life? If I could SHOW you that this IS IN The Word, would you BELIEVE IT? CAN you TRUST The Word of God? I challenge YOU or any other that would dispute what I have JUST OFFERED. that is IF you BELIEVE in The Word of God, (or have simply fallen prey to the offerings of the churches):

Genesis 3:

[22] And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
[23] Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
[24] So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

So the ONLY difference between us and God is OUR SPIRITUAL IMMATURITY. That is WHY He separated us from the TREE OF LIFE. So that IN OUR SPIRITUAL IMMATURITY WE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO LIVE FOREVER. To INSURE that man would ONE DAY BECOME 'Spiritually mature', He HAD to separate us FROM the 'tree of life'. But ONLY UNTIL we are ABLE to BECOME 'Spiritually mature'. Do you know What it will TAKE for US to BECOME 'Spiritually mature'? The COMPLETE and UTTER understanding of LOVE. For ALL the law offered since the BEGINNING, and ALL the prophets that have EVER been SENT from God to mankind, EVERYTHING that God has offered SINCE 'creation' was MEANT to teach us THIS ONE THING. The LOVE that was IN HIS heart when He 'created' US in His IMAGE. Sleep on that one folks.

MEC

 

[GraceBwithU]

MEC,
I must agree with handy, this is the same subject as the locked graven image thread. We should never take scripture out of context. The first three commandments are meant to complete the commandments of our worship, (3 as is 7, 10, and 12 a completion number) The creation of spiritual art does not condemn the artist....even if it did, (which I do not think it does), it's existance would not condemn us unless we used it as a mediator in worship. Their is but one mediator between God and man...and that is Jesus Christ.

 

[Imagican]

MEC,
I must agree with handy, this is the same subject as the locked graven image thread. We should never take scripture out of context. The first three commandments are meant to complete the commandments of our worship, (3 as is 7, 10, and 12 a completion number) The creation of spiritual art does not condemn the artist....even if it did, (which I do not think it does), it's existance would not condemn us unless we used it as a mediator in worship. Their is but one mediator between God and man...and that is Jesus Christ.

Actually Grace,

I haven't EVEN mentioned ANY commandment so far. I have 'mentioned graven images' but NOT in context to the commandments.

Did you EVEN read what I have posted or just the first paragraph?

You offer that there is BUT one 'mediator' between us and God. Let me ask you this: HOW many DEMONS are 'mediators' between US and Satan? Or is this EVEN a 'subject' that you care to discuss?
What do YOU know of demons? How about Satan Himself. Ever MET him? Do you BELIEVE in him? Not, do you follow him, but do you BELIEVE that he EXISTS and HAS dominion over this WORLD?

So, while you are awful QUICK to condemn my offering of this thread, you have offered NOTHING in response to the INFORMATION offered within it.

And Grace, do you KNOW that what is CONSIDERED 'Christian' music in todays 'Christian community' IS INDEED music that IS inspired BY God or His Son? Would NOT Satan take the praise EVEN in the 'name of Christ' if we were WILLING to GIVE it? Or do you NOT believe that we battle with powers and principalities that we KNOW LITTLE ABOUT?

Is EVERYTHING 'called' God the ACTUAL 'Creator'? Could I NOT sing a song that 'appeared' to BE in praise of God but in REALITY 'my god' BEING Satan and HIM to WHOM the song was 'created and sung' to?

So, firstly, as I have already offered; The REASON that the 'other thread' was locked was NOT due to it's SUBJECT. I don't think any but a 'particular group' was offended by ANYTHING that I had to offer. But it 'started' to get 'personal' and BECAUSE it was UNABLE to be continued, even after WARNINGS, it was locked.

But I didn't offer this to discuss denominations, nor to discuss the 'commandment' to which you refered. I started THIS thread in the hopes of being ABLE to offer some 'understanding' on the subject of INSPIRATION and WHERE IT comes from. Not whether a particular PIECE of art is 'holy' or 'unholy', but rather IF 'art' CAN be considered 'unholy'.

Now, since you have 'chosen' to participate, let me ask YOU a question:

IF you wanted to PROTECT your child from a neighbors child that YOU considered to BE a 'bad influence'. What RULE would you MAKE in order to INSURE that YOU had DONE everything WITHIN your capabilities to AVOID your child 'getting into trouble' with this 'other child'? Would you offer the 'rule'; you can ONLY play with this child UNDER supervision, or would you simply deny your child the ABILITY to play with this child by DEMANDING that he NOT have relations with him?

Serious question and I'm curious as to your answer. So, if you are willing to appease my curiosity, by all means, let's hear it.

MEC

MEC

 

[A-Christian]

I don't believe that Satan has a creative bone in his body. All he does is corrupt what should be to God's glory. But, that doesn't lesson the fact that just as we were made in God's image, and God is first and foremost the Creator, we have the capability to create things to the glory of God.

And WHAT does the 'artist' offer that is OF GOD? ILLUSION. What's ANOTHER word for illusion? Ever WONDER where my user name comes from? I'll tell you and this a FIRST here on the forum. For MANY years I was a professional perfoming MAGICIAN. I WAS an illusionist and a 'slieght of hand' EXTROIDINARE. Not JOKING. Just offering a bit of HONESTY. Not PROUD of it but is IS the TRUTH. Have met the 'greatest of my generation' and performed with some of them. No, you've NEVER heard of me. You've NEVER heard of MOST. EVEN some that are MUCH more TALENTED than Copperfield. We were a 'dime a dozen' then and they STILL are. Some are just NOT as devoted as others. The answer to my question is this: LIES. Illusions are 'something that SEEMS to BE different than what it APPEARS'.



I think you are trying to force something that is for the next world, not this one. As long as this world exists, and evil exists in this world, you will not be able to accomplish what you seem to be trying to accomplish here.

NO, I will NEVER accept that. There MUST be those ABLE to 'resist the wiles' of the DEVIL. There MUST BE. I can't BELIEVE that God hasn't seen FIT to enable SOMEONE to overcome. There MUST be. If not in this country then SOMEWHERE. For IF I were to 'accept' what YOU have just offered, there is NO HOPE. And I simply DO NOT believe that Our Father would ABANDONE us.

What will wind up happening is the type of Phariseeism (making up a word here) that Jesus denouced while He was here: an effort on man to impose their version of God's law upon everyone else. There is no way we can live in this world without the possibility of stumbling.

Oh NO, my dear. I'm not offering MY OWN words. I KNOW you MUST have READ THE WORD. Have I offered ANYTHING that is AGAINST The Word? Stumble we may. But that does NOT MEAN that we MUST conform to the rudiments of this world. That does NOT mean that we CANNOT overcome. For there IS hope, and through FAITH ANYTHING is POSSIBLE.

(and why do I get the sneaking suspicion that this is an end-run around the locked Graven Images thread?)

NO, please dont' do that to me or our Father. The REASON that the 'graven images' thread was locked is due to the 'conflict' and Catholic attack that was percieved. But you and I have been able to KEEP this civil WIthout the STRIFE or ATTACKS that were generated by the other.

I have PURPOSELY attempted to ATTACK NO ONE in particular. I have been as DISCRETE as POSSIBLE and have not EVEN mentioned this being ANYTHING other than a CHRISTIAN issue. I had HOPED that this issue could be discussed NOT on WHO 'created the acceptance' of such, but WHAT IT IS. Have I NOT been as civil as one could be expected to BE?

ALL I asked in the beginning handy is to LISTEN. I have YET to TELL you ANYTHING other than what "I" am LED to say. NO accusations, no belittlement for lack of understanding, as CORDIAL as I know HOW to be.

Let's try a little something DIFFERENT:

I have TOLD you what I USE to BE, professionally. I am a CARPENTER now. I remodel homes. MOST skills involved I DO; from framing to drywall, plumbing to electrical, painting, trim etc.......... But I have TOLD you what I ONCE did as far as employment is concerned.

Do you KNOW Satan? Have you MET him? Know what he LOOKS like?

Do you BELIEVE that there ARE those that DO know Satan? That there are those that ARE personal 'FREINDS' of Satan. That there ARE those that KNOW WHAT he LOOKS Like?

I know, (this guy's a NUT, right')? I wish. I wish that it were such a 'silly' situation' that it could be simply 'laughed off' like it's a JOKE. He IS REAL. He OWNS this planet and EVERYTHING on it. He IS able to offer riches, fame, glory, EVEN TALENT to ANYONE that WORSHIPS him and EVEN MORE to those that are ABLE to 'bring others TO him'.

Hey, people, PLEASE tell me that I am NOT The ONLY ONE. Someone MUST know the SAME Things that I'm saying here. I CAN NOT BE THE ONLY ONE? Can you imagine how WRONG that would BE? I sometimes CAN relate to the EXACT 'feelings' the prophets MUST have experienced. These THINGS that I once thought EVERY Christian WOULD KNOW seem to be UTTERLY foriegn to them. This is just TOO MUCH to even comprehend.

My point is that I KNOW who my father WAS. Not only was I a practicing magician, (you know, the guys that do 'magic tricks', 'stage illusions' and such). But that WASN'T 'enough. I bought EVERY book that I could FIND that dealt with 'black magic'. Everything short of actual books on Satanism. I know JUST ABOUT every 'trick' offered by those of the PAST that 'claimed' to BE witches, sorcerers, etc........... There are MANY chemical reactions that, (I'm SURE), would have TOTALLY convinced those of the past that were ignorant of such that those that PERFORMED them WERE somehow POWERFUL. Spiritually gifted you might say.

Without even being aware for MOST of my life, Satan WAS 'my father'. I didn't OUTRIGHT ever 'worship him'. But looking back, that is EXACTLY what I was doing. I was LIVING FOR NOTHING BUT THIS WORLD. I STILL haven't been able to COMPLETELY 'overcome it'. But I'm WORKING ON IT.

So, there you have it. One able to OPENLY admit WHO Satan IS. And one that KNEW him PERSONALLY. When I FIRST became aware and 'rebelled against' his INFLUENCE, I didn't THINK I was going to BE ABLE. I honestly THOUGHT that he would KILL me, (or have someone under his influence do it. Yeah I know, crazy huh?), but WATCH THIS: Is Satan a man or a woman? The TRUTH: he can be EITHER. He can take WHATEVER form he CHOOSES. Remember.........HE IS the Father of LIES. He can be ANYTHING that he CHOOSES. Did YOU know THAT? He can be ME 'or' YOU. He can be seducer or seductress. He IS androgenous. Gay, masculine, feminine, or DEITY if you LET him take this 'persona'.

I believe that I've 'said too much'. Perhaps TOO much for MOST to 'handle' at ONE TIME.

We ARE living in 'different' times than those of the PAST. And there IS more INFORMATION that we HAVE learned since the time of the apostles. Do you DOUBT that God WISHES for US to KNOW the TRUTH. And that that TRUTH has EXPANDED? That we ARE able to UNDERSTAND MORE now than EVER? And that works in ALL ways. Not ONLY are we able to build rockets to the moon and telephones that offer instant access to ANYONE around the world, but even the father of lies has become MORE exposed than ever. But will ANYONE heed the information offered other than that which is ABLE to fulfill their lustful souls? Hmmmmm....... I wonder...........

I'll close with this, handy..........

Do you BELIEVE that we were 'created' in the IMAGE Of God? Do you KNOW that we are LIKE God? Do you realize that upon MAKING us in HIS image that He GAVE us the CAPACITY to BE LIKE HIM? I know, blasphemy right? WRONG. ALL I am offering is the TRUTH. The ONLY difference between US and God is MATURITY. We simply HAVEN'T been in existence LONG ENOUGH to 'Spiritually mature'. This sounds CRAZY huh? Ever HEARD something SO OUTRAGEOUS before in ALL your life? If I could SHOW you that this IS IN The Word, would you BELIEVE IT? CAN you TRUST The Word of God? I challenge YOU or any other that would dispute what I have JUST OFFERED. that is IF you BELIEVE in The Word of God, (or have simply fallen prey to the offerings of the churches):

Genesis 3:

[22] And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
[23] Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
[24] So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

So the ONLY difference between us and God is OUR SPIRITUAL IMMATURITY. That is WHY He separated us from the TREE OF LIFE. So that IN OUR SPIRITUAL IMMATURITY WE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO LIVE FOREVER. To INSURE that man would ONE DAY BECOME 'Spiritually mature', He HAD to separate us FROM the 'tree of life'. But ONLY UNTIL we are ABLE to BECOME 'Spiritually mature'. Do you know What it will TAKE for US to BECOME 'Spiritually mature'? The COMPLETE and UTTER understanding of LOVE. For ALL the law offered since the BEGINNING, and ALL the prophets that have EVER been SENT from God to mankind, EVERYTHING that God has offered SINCE 'creation' was MEANT to teach us THIS ONE THING. The LOVE that was IN HIS heart when He 'created' US in His IMAGE. Sleep on that one folks.

MEC

Im speechless MEC. Do you really think that just because you have a sense of right and wrong, that you are like GOD in every other way except for spiritual imaturity?

 

[Imagican]

Well, let's see. We ARE 'created in the IMAGE OF God. We WERE imortal upon the original creation. And in order to KEEP us FROM the 'tree of life'; that we WOULD LIVE FOREVER, God separated us from it. And in DOING so, it is STATED that 'now that MAN HAS BECOME as ONE OF US', the logical conclusion is that the MAJOR difference lies in Spiritual MATURITY. For BEFORE 'taking the TIME' to BECOME ABLE to 'overcome' temptation, both Adam AND Eve FELL.

Let me ask you A, what WOULD have been the CASE if Eve and Adam HAD NOT eaten of the 'fruit in the garden'? Why were they THERE to begin with and HOW LONG were they MEANT to BE THERE?

And NO, WE are Spirit and FLESH. God is ONLY Spirit. But who's to say that 'given the TIME' to BECOME 'Spiritually mature' that we WON'T be 'as God'? For the Word offers this EXACT indication OVER AND OVER again. Christ IS the Son of God which both the Catholics and MOST Protestant denoms agree IS God. And we have been told that WE TOO can BECOME 'sons of God'. We have been told that in the future that WE will judge the angels. The list is extensive in that, given time, we TOO will be 'like God'. Was it NOT 'God' who judged Satan? And if in the future WE will JUDGE the 'angels', does that NOT indicate that at some point in the future WE WILL be 'like God'?

Do you deny that these words are given us in The Bible? Even Satan, an angel, BECAME 'like God'. We have the information that there was a WAR in heaven and that MANY of the angels ACTUALLY followed Satan. Satan IS the God of this world.

What conclusion would YOU say we are being 'led to'? We have been TOLD that we HAVE to potential to BE LIKE GOD. If that is NOT true then we have been mis-led through The Word. Father, sons and daughters, where does that LEAD? For ALL, obviously NOT. But for the REST, where does it LEAD? It only stands to reason that we ARE A PART of God from the moment of 'creation'. Will we become LESS 'like God' or 'more', in the furture?

And I'm NOT dealing with 'theology' here, let us 'deal with the WORDS offered us in The Word. And I will say that ANY son is LIKE his FATHER. The EXACT SAME, NEVER. But close enough to be 'LIKE the same'.

I will leave you with THESE:

Pss.82
[6] I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Isa.41
[23] Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together.
John.10
[34] Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

What HAPPENS when 'children' GROW UP?

MEC

 

[GraceBwithU]

MEC,
It seems to me that you have drifted from your own subject.

Anyway...Can art be insired by Satan? The answer is most certainly yes, since ispiration I think is related to thought, the sinner is marked in is mind by his thoughts. Can art be inspired by God? The answer here is also yes. There is far too much of profanity in the world that hides behind the name of art. This does not mean however that all art is bad. God has given all of us talents that we must put to the best use to glorify His name. Spiritual art can speak a thousand words of inspirational feelings. God is using these people to inspire in the same way that some have been given the gift of preaching or writting. We must not condemn all art simply because Satan has a part in some art. This is what Satan would love for us to do.



God Bless

 

[Imagican]

MEC,
It seems to me that you have drifted from your own subject.

Anyway...Can art be insired by Satan? The answer is most certainly yes, since ispiration I think is related to thought, the sinner is marked in is mind by his thoughts. Can art be inspired by God? The answer here is also yes. There is far too much of profanity in the world that hides behind the name of art. This does not mean however that all art is bad. God has given all of us talents that we must put to the best use to glorify His name. Spiritual art can speak a thousand words of inspirational feelings. God is using these people to inspire in the same way that some have been given the gift of preaching or writting. We must not condemn all art simply because Satan has a part in some art. This is what Satan would love for us to do.



God Bless

Ok Grace, but there are MANY points that I have 'already made' that have NOT been addressed. Since I 'agree' that my posts have been LONG and often FULL of questions. Let's deal with them ONE at a time, shall we?

Let us start 'here':

HOW are WE to DETERMINE that which IS inspired by Satan. How are we to RECOGNIZE that which is ULTIMATELY inspired by the 'Father of LIES'?

MEC

 

[Veritas]

I am an artist, and I'm very well aware of both the positive and negative aspects of artwork. Take the human body. It is an absolutely beautiful thing and artists strive to capture it. I myself have even drawn and painted nudes. In doing so, however, I put myself into incredible temptation. There is art out there which does blur the lines between pornography and art. And in fact, someone can look at a tasteful nude and appreciate beauty while another may view it in sin. There is a real battle going on an often times art is on the frontlines. The Russian author Dostoevsky percieved this as well....

Beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the Devil fight there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.

 

[GraceBwithU]

Ok Grace, but there are MANY points that I have 'already made' that have NOT been addressed. Since I 'agree' that my posts have been LONG and often FULL of questions. Let's deal with them ONE at a time, shall we?

Let us start 'here':

HOW are WE to DETERMINE that which IS inspired by Satan. How are we to RECOGNIZE that which is ULTIMATELY inspired by the 'Father of LIES'?

MEC

Easy question...when I am partaking in anything that is a grey area...I simply ask myself..."If Jesus was standing here beside me, would I be ashamed, and the answer comes to me immediately. Not all art is wrong and you know it...if you have such a deed problem with art you should empty your house and sleep on the floor. But then again even your home is art...it was designed. It could easily be designed Satanicly to represent a house of Satan.

It would not surprize me if you had art in your own home...although you are preaching so much against it. How did you choose what art to display in your on home? If you have a single picture on any of your walls...you are displaying art. Design is art....if you have any furniture in your home you are displaying art. Even furniture can be lude and Satanic in it's design. How did you decide if the art in your home was good or bad? You should be able to answer your own question.

I personally have no problem knowing when a piece of so called art is profanity and therefore Satanic. Jesus let's me know when I ask Him.

 

[Imagican]

I am an artist, and I'm very well aware of both the positive and negative aspects of artwork. Take the human body. It is an absolutely beautiful thing and artists strive to capture it. I myself have even drawn and painted nudes. In doing so, however, I put myself into incredible temptation. There is art out there which does blur the lines between pornography and art. And in fact, someone can look at a tasteful nude and appreciate beauty while another may view it in sin. There is a real battle going on an often times art is on the frontlines. The Russian author Dostoevsky percieved this as well....

Beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the Devil fight there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.

Veritas,

(just when I was prepared to 'give up'..........he he he, no such 'luck' folks).

I THANK you for your HONESTY.

You have offered INSIGHT into the EXACT point of this thread. While MOST others have simply chosen DENIAL, you have offered ADMITTANCE that EVEN the 'art' that YOU produce with the INTENTION of 'righteousness' CAN be a 'temptation' to others. Trust me, my friend, I am OFFERING NO CONDEMNATION here. Simply an ATTEMPT at 'understanding'.

And it appears that 'even this Russian 'artist' PERCIEVED the BATTLE between 'good' and 'evil'. And not only was this 'quote' FILLED with 'wisdom' and INSIGHT, it offers that the BATTLEGROUND IS the 'heart of man'.

That offers a dilema of sorts. IF the 'battlefield', (wow, I wish I were THAT 'articulate. But is THAT in itself; coveting? I wonder..........but lest I disgress....), IS 'our VERY hearts', (and I DO realize that this is JUST; words offered by A MAN), HOW can we POSSIBLY aid the 'good fight'. How can WE 'lend support' to God's will and DENY it to the 'enemy'?

And Veritas, (I ONLY choose YOU to 'pick on' cause to pick on anyone else would be to PICK ON EVERYONE ELSE!!!! he he he. just joking and I ask this of YOU for you SEEM willing to be truthful with yourself and others in this matter), IF you ARE your 'brothers keeper', how can YOU insure that 'your art' DOESN'T offer 'temptation' to your brother or sister? I am NOT attacking 'that which you do, I am simply asking 'what if'? And I BELIEVE that you are 'the person to ask' in this situation.

Honestly, (and I have BEEN an artist myself. A rather accomplished one if you'll allow me to 'honor the flesh'), how are those that 'create art' assured that their inspiration if NOT 'other than' The Spirit? And this would MEAN that the 'art' created COULD NOT cause our brothers or sisters to 'stumble'. Is there 'such an art form'?

Once again, let me thank you for your honesty. I believe that it SHOULD carry a 'bit more weight' coming from one that IS 'an artist' than simply discussing from a 'laymans' perspective. Not that either YOU or I will TOTALLY 'agree' upon EITHER'S answers, but I am CERTAINLY willing to listen and believe that you will be able to 'shed a little light' on this subject.

MEC

 

[Imagican]

Ok Grace, but there are MANY points that I have 'already made' that have NOT been addressed. Since I 'agree' that my posts have been LONG and often FULL of questions. Let's deal with them ONE at a time, shall we?

Let us start 'here':

HOW are WE to DETERMINE that which IS inspired by Satan. How are we to RECOGNIZE that which is ULTIMATELY inspired by the 'Father of LIES'?

MEC

Easy question...when I am partaking in anything that is a grey area...I simply ask myself..."If Jesus was standing here beside me, would I be ashamed, and the answer comes to me immediately. Not all art is wrong and you know it...if you have such a deed problem with art you should empty your house and sleep on the floor. But then again even your home is art...it was designed. It could easily be designed Satanicly to represent a house of Satan.

Grace, I hessitate to agree with what you have offered above......YET. There IS an amount of TRUTH to what you state but I don't believe the conversation has reached a 'level of understanding' that makes this pertinent, YET, to the POINT.

And Grace, PLEASE don't take my words as PLACING myself in ANY 'different' light than ANY OTHER, (except perhaps in UNDERSTANDING). And NOT ABOVE even THEN, but, perhaps, a bit more 'eiightened'. Is that POSSIBLE?

It would not surprize me if you had art in your own home...although you are preaching so much against it. How did you choose what art to display in your on home? If you have a single picture on any of your walls...you are displaying art. Design is art....if you have any furniture in your home you are displaying art. Even furniture can be lude and Satanic in it's design. How did you decide if the art in your home was good or bad? You should be able to answer your own question.

and 'here we go again'. I am NOT here to CONDEMN ANYONE, I am simply attempting to discuss the REALITY of 'whether something is 'right or wrong'. I have ALREADY openly admitted to YOU and others that I AM A LIAR, A THEIF, AN ADULTERER, A MURDERER. What MORE do I have to DO to show that I am NOT any 'better' than ANYONE ELSE, (maybe WORSE than any other).

And Grace, I have NOT ONLY 'done as you offer', I have been ABLE to discern the spirit that was the INSPIRATION of the 'art' that I PRODUCED in my younger years. And NO, my art was NOT all demons and skulls and pentagrams. i was INTO nature, birds, wildlife, trees, rivers, still life type stuff even. I am WELL versed in the 'greats'; From the obscure to the renowned. My POINT is NOT how PREVALENT art IS but IS IT RIGHT to place SO MUCH EMPHASIS ON IT. and IS IT able to INFLUENCE us. And if the answer to this question is YES, then WHAT IS THE INFLUENCE and how do we KNOW?

I personally have no problem knowing when a piece of so called art is profanity and therefore Satanic. Jesus let's me know when I ask Him.

But do you ASK Him EACH and EVERY time that you SEE it? Do you watch television? Do you EVER encounter 'righteous' commercials? How about the MUSIC that they USE to 'sell stuff'. Is IT righteous? And isn't 'commercialization' just another 'form' of ATTEMPTING to influence COVETING?.......
NOPE, not going to do it, I'll TRY to stick to ONE subject even though there is MUCH more TO IT that is relative..........

So Grace, not 'attacking' what you've said, just asking you to 'get a little DEEPER'. You say that YOU have NO problem distinguishing between 'good and evil' when it comes to art. Is this TRUTH, or is it simply 'something that you stated' WITHOUT truly 'thinking' about it? For Satan IS able to disguise HIMSELF as an 'ANGEL OF LIGHT'. We have been told that in the END God MUST EVEN 'cut the days short' so that EVEN the VERY ELECT not be 'lured away' into following Satan. Are you saying that you are INFALIBLE? If so, then you ARE more capable than I. And as stated previous, I ONCE was a 'painter', sculpter, potter, and my specialty: different syles of 'pen and ink'. From the realistic to the fantasy. And it is ONLY through having EXPERIENCED it that I offer what I offer this very moment. These are NOT random thoughts or words.

 

[Imagican]

Look folks, I am NOT here to condemn ANYONE. If there is ANY condemnation that I offer it is OF THIS WORLD.

And I propose that IF one FEELS as if I am condemning them PERSONALLY for the words that I offer; that it comes from 'somewhere else'. Perhaps some of the folks that have SUCH a 'hard time' with this subject ARE BEING convicted, but NOT BY ME. I am simply offering WORDS of wisdom. If it 'angers' anyone, I would suggest that it is due to WHAT they 'follow' that ALLOWS their hearts to FEEL anything other than 'fellowship' here.

Satan HATES Christ. Christ DEFEATED his ability to HAVE what he wanted and now he HATES Christ for it. And he HATES anything that REFUTES his WILL. He IS the 'god of this world' and ANYTHING that 'reflects' that He is NOT the 'god of ALL on this earth' it literally 'pisses him off'. Do you KNOW the 'feeling'? Then I would propose that this feeling is NOT 'of the Spirit' but of ANOTHER.

MEC