ASASSINS CREED anti-Christian?

[turnorburn]

What is your point, Turnorburn? I'm confused.

This is a game? I must have been tired when I made this post that's all..
The information is that of the Jesuit Order, its their Extreme Oath,
their oath is not a game its the real thing.. :yes


turnorburn

 

[Drew]

I am in the over 50 age category and have never played any kind of computer games.

I assume that the game involves "killing" people, am I right?

If so, that settles the matter - to play such a game is to repudiate the kingdom model that Jesus set forth. That model involves rejecting the world's use of violence to solve problem and embraces a model of love.

 

[Nick]

I am in the over 50 age category and have never played any kind of computer games.

I assume that the game involves "killing" people, am I right?

If so, that settles the matter - to play such a game is to repudiate the kingdom model that Jesus set forth. That model involves rejecting the world's use of violence to solve problem and embraces a model of love.

True on the Jesus model, but if the game doesn't cause you to stumble then what's the problem? It's just a game and it's fun!

 

[Aero_Hudson]

I am in the over 50 age category and have never played any kind of computer games.

I assume that the game involves "killing" people, am I right?

If so, that settles the matter - to play such a game is to repudiate the kingdom model that Jesus set forth. That model involves rejecting the world's use of violence to solve problem and embraces a model of love.

True on the Jesus model, but if the game doesn't cause you to stumble then what's the problem? It's just a game and it's fun!

Agreed. You are basically "playing" a story. I play quite a few video games and enjoy them a great deal. As long as you can separate the games from real life there is no problem.

 

[Drew]

True on the Jesus model, but if the game doesn't cause you to stumble then what's the problem? It's just a game and it's fun!

With all due respect, I think this argunment cannot work. How can it not cause to stumble - you repeatedly enact the very actions that we are instructed to avoid, even if only fictionally.

Imagine if I said that it was OK to go to strip clubs because I "only look" and do not actually then commit adultery. I trust you will not respond by appealing to Jesus' statement about "committing adultery" in your heart - I will let you guess what passage I would respond to with that.

These games are only accepted in the Christian community because we all "give each other a pass on them". Same with over-eating - a sin widely accepted, tolerated and even promoted in Christian culture.

 

[Aero_Hudson]

True on the Jesus model, but if the game doesn't cause you to stumble then what's the problem? It's just a game and it's fun!

With all due respect, I think this argunment cannot work. How can it not cause to stumble - you repeatedly enact the very actions that we are instructed to avoid, even if only fictionally.

Imagine if I said that it was OK to go to strip clubs because I "only look" and do not actually then commit adultery. I trust you will not respond by appealing to Jesus' statement about "committing adultery" in your heart - I will let you guess what passage I would respond to with that.

These games are only accepted in the Christian community because we all "give each other a pass on them". Same with over-eating - a sin widely accepted, tolerated and even promoted in Christian culture.

I do not see video games, music or movies as a "sin". They are mediums of entertainment that I enjoy and I myself can discern what is acceptable or not for me personally.

 

[Nick]

[quote="Nick_29":vqu5fkw3]True on the Jesus model, but if the game doesn't cause you to stumble then what's the problem? It's just a game and it's fun!

With all due respect, I think this argunment cannot work. How can it not cause to stumble - you repeatedly enact the very actions that we are instructed to avoid, even if only fictionally.

Imagine if I said that it was OK to go to strip clubs because I "only look" and do not actually then commit adultery. I trust you will not respond by appealing to Jesus' statement about "committing adultery" in your heart - I will let you guess what passage I would respond to with that.

These games are only accepted in the Christian community because we all "give each other a pass on them". Same with over-eating - a sin widely accepted, tolerated and even promoted in Christian culture.

I do not see video games, music or movies as a "sin". They are mediums of entertainment that I enjoy and I myself can discern what is acceptable or not for me personally.[/quote:vqu5fkw3]
Tend to agree Aero.

Although they can definately lead us into sin, I think most of us can discern when it is good for us or not. And I beleive Asassins Creed would not cause me to stumble, so I would have no problem in playing it.
Others, however may not feel that way and I have no problem in them not playing it. It's pretty personal stuff, and what one person thinks to be OK, another person may not. I don't think there's a one standard for everyone.

 

[Drew]

I do not see video games, music or movies as a "sin". They are mediums of entertainment that I enjoy and I myself can discern what is acceptable or not for me personally.

How about strip clubs - they provide "entertainment". Can I not "discern what is acceptable for me personally"?

Clearly, the answer is "no". I am frankly stunned that people do not see the problem with games where you play the role of a being who inflicts violent death on other beings. I can imagine an agnostic / atheist making the argument that such games are a "safe" way to vent violent urges inherent in all of us.

Well, perhaps that might be true from such a perspective.

But Christians believe, or at least should believe, that we are new creations. Fantasy games where we enact violence could not possibly be more anti-gospel.

 

[Nick]

I do not see video games, music or movies as a "sin". They are mediums of entertainment that I enjoy and I myself can discern what is acceptable or not for me personally.

How about strip clubs - they provide "entertainment". Can I not "discern what is acceptable for me personally"?

Clearly, the answer is "no". I am frankly stunned that people do not see the problem with games where you play the role of a being who inflicts violent death on other beings. I can imagine an agnostic / atheist making the argument that such games are a "safe" way to vent violent urges inherent in all of us.

Well, perhaps that might be true from such a perspective.

But Christians believe, or at least should believe, that we are new creations. Fantasy games where we enact violence could not possibly be more anti-gospel.

The key words here are 'fantasy' and 'games'. If you read a book with heaps of violence in it, isn't that just as bad? Some think the Harry Potter series promotes witchcraft and therefore as Christians we should not read the books or watch the films. Isn't that 'just as bad'?

The bottom line is that they are fiction, and are different from the strip clubs.
I could not walk into a strip club and not stumble, however I can play games like Asassin's Creed and not stumble. That's just how it is for me, obviously it is different to you. BTW, this is coming from someone who wants stricter gun laws in the US, so that might give you an idea of where I"m coming from.

 

[Aero_Hudson]

[quote="Aero_Hudson":3d2vrmpm]I do not see video games, music or movies as a "sin". They are mediums of entertainment that I enjoy and I myself can discern what is acceptable or not for me personally.

How about strip clubs - they provide "entertainment". Can I not "discern what is acceptable for me personally"?

Clearly, the answer is "no". I am frankly stunned that people do not see the problem with games where you play the role of a being who inflicts violent death on other beings. I can imagine an agnostic / atheist making the argument that such games are a "safe" way to vent violent urges inherent in all of us.

Well, perhaps that might be true from such a perspective.

But Christians believe, or at least should believe, that we are new creations. Fantasy games where we enact violence could not possibly be more anti-gospel.

The key words here are 'fantasy' and 'games'. If you read a book with heaps of violence in it, isn't that just as bad? Some think the Harry Potter series promotes witchcraft and therefore as Christians we should not read the books or watch the films. Isn't that 'just as bad'?

The bottom line is that they are fiction, and are different from the strip clubs.
I could not walk into a strip club and not stumble, however I can play games like Asassin's Creed and not stumble. That's just how it is for me, obviously it is different to you. BTW, this is coming from someone who wants stricter gun laws in the US, so that might give you an idea of where I"m coming from.[/quote:3d2vrmpm]

Agreed. When I play a video game I am not committing these acts just like when I read a book I am not committing violent acts. It is fiction. When I walk into a strip club with the intent of being "entertained" that is a sin.

I'm going to go play some Halo now. ;)

 

[ayyabb]

I read all the postings in this thread, and I just wanted to add some of my thoughts about this game.
Yes, I played it all and I finished the game because I heard from a friend of mine that it had a reference to Revelations.

Well, that "reference" was more in accordance with 21 Dec. 2012 Dooms day thing, unlike
what I wished to see (The main character was fighting against atheistic antigonist, so thinking
that it had an ending that referred to a Biblical context, I had my hopes up a little bit).
I'm not sure if Ubisoft is affiliated with any organization that might be against our faith,
but altogether, the message this game is giving to the audience is atheistic.

I stumbled unto this thread as I was searching myself whether this game is ani-Christian or not.
I read some of other online-thread posted on gaming communities and I found that many non-Christians
took this game as anti-Christian, or to be more precise, anti-religion.

Here's some stuffs I heard in the game as I was playing it.

"Remember, nothing is true."
"I believe there was a book that claimed the world was created in seven days, a bestseller too!"
(When one of the templars is dying at the hands of the assassin) "Nothing. Nothing waits. And that is what I fear." (The context was something like there's no God, and some artifact they recovered in the Holy Land was the proof)

There are more indications of this game being atheistic. But I don't remember all of its quotes.
Overall, I decided that this game is atheistic and reflects "false truth" to the audience about Christianity, since the context of the game clearly puts our faith as some kind of illusion and just as same as other religions around the world.

So...to add my opinion whether Christians should play this game or not:

"Everything is permissible"--but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"--but not everything is constructive. (1 Cor 10:23)

You can choose to play this game if it does not cause you to sin, and you are not swayed by the atheistic message the game portrays. As for me, I did finish the game in false hope, and decided not to buy the sequel of the game. I did not stumble or sin while playing the game, but did not benefitted from it either (Yes, I did waste my time on this game, which I could have used more wisely). I would rather choose some other game that does not portray falsely of our faith.

But to some brothers and sisters that are die-hard fans of this game, I just want to ask one thing. Is this game that much important to you? Afterall, once you finish the game, you'll probably not play it any more anyways. Why would you go the distance to defend the game or defend the experience of playing the game?

 

[azlan88]

Good post, friend. If anybody would like, here's a link to Focus on the Family's review of the game, which also makes mention of a this "artifact" and how it relates the developers' theological positions.

http://www.pluggedin.com/games/2008/Q1/ ... Creed.aspx

 

[Aero_Hudson]

It's a video game folks. If a video game causes someone to sin they are pretty easily swayed and have bigger problems ahead of them. Again, I will reiterate, that the game does not protray Christianity badly and insteads tries to remain pretty neutral with this as a backdrop. If we are so easily offended as a result of a developers imagination I think we also have bigger problems than playing this video game.

I plan on checking on AC2 sometime early next year. I hear that it is even better than the first.

 

[azlan88]

Aero, you have fallen in love with this world and the things that it has to offer. Did you even read the review that I posted? Here's a part of the review that might set your heart aright:

The game, however, shows its true colors when attributing special powers to the Piece of Eden artifact that everyone is pursuing. While never connected directly to the Garden of Eden, the relic is magically able to alter what men see in a sort of mass hypnosis. Altair's master, the Assassin king, says that it has been the source of all biblical miracles. In other words, the Red Sea didn't part, Moses' cleft rock didn't really produce water, Jesus didn't turn water to wine—they were all illusions created by the artifact.

In addition to that attempt at diminishing God's miraculous power, the game blasphemes His name by combining it with "d--n." Other profanities show up too, including a few f- and s-words, "b--tard," "a--" and "h---."

 

[Aero_Hudson]

Aero, you have fallen in love with this world and the things that it has to offer. Did you even read the review that I posted? Here's a part of the review that might set your heart aright:

The game, however, shows its true colors when attributing special powers to the Piece of Eden artifact that everyone is pursuing. While never connected directly to the Garden of Eden, the relic is magically able to alter what men see in a sort of mass hypnosis. Altair's master, the Assassin king, says that it has been the source of all biblical miracles. In other words, the Red Sea didn't part, Moses' cleft rock didn't really produce water, Jesus didn't turn water to wine—they were all illusions created by the artifact.

In addition to that attempt at diminishing God's miraculous power, the game blasphemes His name by combining it with "d--n." Other profanities show up too, including a few f- and s-words, "b--tard," "a--" and "h---."

I don't need to read your review as I played the game myself. It has nothing to do with me "falling in love with the things of this world" as you put it. I can view media and play games for entertainment purposes and separate them from other forms of information I take in for education, enrichment, etc. This is a game, a fantasy one at that. There is no hidden message nor nefarious purpose to it. It is there to entertain gamers and others that want to experience a good story and good gameplay. It accomplished both goals.

If some Christians want to avoid it because they feel it is "ingodly" or "tempting" in some way, by all means, avoid it. As for me, I understand that although I am a spiritual being, I can appreciate all things created as a result of the grace of God including video games and stories. I understand what is real and what is not and can separate the two. We live in this world and must understand it, experience it and interpret it if we are to relate to believers and non believers alike.

 

[Twisted Hawk]

you have fallen in love with this world and the things that it has to offer."

Rats! Time to sell my car!

 

[Twisted Hawk]

In all seriousness though, I believe this game is very Anti-Christian after reading that review. When I saw my friend take knives into the throats when he played, it made me squeamish. Now that I seen another take on it, I'll stick to my Metal Gear games where non-violence is rewarded.

 

[izzy]

Anyone played Assassins Creed 2 through yet? I watched my brother play the end and I have to agree that it is quite anti-Christian. Killing bad guys who are preying on the innocent is not so bad, but the theological stuff at the end was really overboard. If I understood it correctly, the piece of Eden and some other artifact open a vault under the Vatican where God is said to dwell. Except that what the main character actually finds are space aliens that have apparently created humans, but the humans rebelled against them. These aliens appear as the ancient gods of the Greeks. Pretty twisted, huh? Not only that, but the Pope is the big bad guy who has led his flock astray, telling them lies about a God he knows does not exist. Assassins Creed 2 seems to be depicting the church as an organization that purposefully feeds people a lie in order to gain power. Up to that point, the game was quite entertaining to play and watch, if you don't mind gruesome ways of dying.

 

[turnorburn]

What is your point, Turnorburn? I'm confused.

The Jesuits are assassins for the pope and have been since Ignatius Loyola started the
office of the Society of Jesus. .

turnorburn