Atheist Conversions

[SyntaxVorlon]

Atheism, for those great number who seem to have a misunderstanding on the subject, is a lack in belief in deities and the supernatural. In a positive sense, as it relates to natural materialism and secular humanism, is a belief in a natural world that is governed solely by uncreated laws and in a system of ethics based on rationality and our knowledge of societies.
The prime reason to be an atheist is the lack of any concrete evidence that deities of any form exist. Secondary reasons include the understanding of the universe we have via science that does not correspond with various myths from the world's religions and the all-encompassing morals that transcend religions throughout all the world's societies.
Warning: Atheism doesn't offer answers to philosophical, moral, theological, teleological questions. It creates them. It opens up to the atheist a world of philosophy to explore and contemplate.
So any takers? Anyone want to jump the fence as it were?

 

[Quath]

There is a web site dedicated to deconversion stories at http://www.positiveatheism.org/mail/eml9663.htm. Some Christians may be interested to see why others have been backsliders.

Quath

 

[Gary]

Been there... done that. Any atheists are welcome to contact me and hear the real story.

 

[Featherbop]

Although I have never 'converted' to atheism, I have entertained periods of atheistic thought. I may have actually become one had there been any logical reason to do so, or if atheism would have offered anything at all positive, or useful.

I have read several atheist conversion stories, and there are common denominators in many of these tales of why one became an atheist. I see many starting with "I was raised Catholic.", or "Bad things happened to me when I was a kid." This sends off many bad signs, as this suggests that one becomes atheist in ignorance usually. Or that one becomes atheist because they don't like the idea of God, and the implications. I could go on and on...

Anyhow, there are many stories of conversions to Christianity, Islam, Wicca, etc...I hope no one is trying to use the fact that there are some atheist deconversion stories to try to make atheism seem correct, as all religions have these stories. It means nothing regarding discerning what religion or beleif system is correct.

 

[Quath]

When I read through the stories, it seems that the older people deconverted when they learned about evolution or took logic courses in college. The younger ones seem to deconvert because they do not like what is taught such as all Africans that never heard of Jesus went to hell. Once you get someone questioning, it is hard to keep them from questioning everything about the religion.

It seems that we have an instinctual nature to believe what we are taught as kids. Maybe that is evolutionary to help us survive into adulthood. But I think it has a side effect of making it hard to break away from the values and beliefs taught to you by your parents for beter or worse.

Quath

 

[Gary]

Converts from atheism

Quath: When I read through the stories, it seems that the older people deconverted when they learned about evolution or took logic courses in college.

Gary: Not always true. As people learn more and understand more, often they turn TO religion. CS Lewis is a classic example.

Quath: The younger ones seem to deconvert because they do not like what is taught such as all Africans that never heard of Jesus went to hell. Once you get someone questioning, it is hard to keep them from questioning everything about the religion.

Gary: The reverse is also true. Once you start questioning and looking at famous lives, you realise how much Christianity has been the cornerstone of belief of some of the most brilliant minds in the the world. Besides, there is nothing wrong in questioning.... that is exactly what many Christians spend the rest of their lives doing. Questioning and learning.

Quath: It seems that we have an instinctual nature to believe what we are taught as kids. Maybe that is evolutionary to help us survive into adulthood. But I think it has a side effect of making it hard to break away from the values and beliefs taught to you by your parents for beter or worse.

Gary: Again, a generalization with not much substansive proof. Many kids do the exact OPPOSITE to what their parents taught them.

If you want to know more about why atheists convert to Christianity, please ask me more.

 

[Gary]

Syntax: Warning: Atheism doesn't offer answers to philosophical, moral, theological, teleological questions.

Gary: So true. Atheism's inability to answer those kinds of questions is one of the many reasons I have rejected atheism. It is not even a complete or holistic world view.

Syntax: It opens up to the atheist a world of philosophy to explore and contemplate.

Gary: Christian belief is not separated from philosophy. Today, as it has always been throughout history, some of the most respected philosophers are Christians as well.

 

[will]

such as all Africans that never heard of Jesus went to hell

Where did you pull that from?. Jesus was very clear when he said that people were judged on what they know. God doesnt judge people who cant have heard of him. I dont know exactly how that works but god is a righteous god he wont send someone to hell just because we hadnt got there with the gospel yet.

I suppose you also belive that christianity teaches that all childeren go to hell if they die young because they havent accepted jesus yet.....

 

[destiny]

such as all Africans that never heard of Jesus went to hell

Where did you pull that from?. Jesus was very clear when he said that people were judged on what they know. God doesnt judge people who cant have heard of him. I dont know exactly how that works but god is a righteous god he wont send someone to hell just because we hadnt got there with the gospel yet.

I suppose you also belive that christianity teaches that all childeren go to hell if they die young because they havent accepted jesus yet.....

Thats right will, and a person would have to be either very gullible or not in relationhip with God to deconvert just because of someone teaching something that doesn't even line up with scripture. Thats why it's essential to know the one whom you are in relationship with intimately, not just by word but by spirit. You have to know God for yourself.
The bible tells us to let the Holy Spirit teach us, thats because the word of God isn't just natural it's also supernatural. The Holy Spirit has to play a part in teaching us so that man can't lead us astray.
Theres a spiritual side to knowing God, and if you don't have it you are just a sitting duck for a snake oil salsesman, or for deconversion. This the part that isn't explainable to an atheist.

 

[reznwerks]

atheist

Been there... done that. Any atheists are welcome to contact me and hear the real story.

It is doubtful that you were ever really an atheist. To become an atheist one usually does so after being a theist. A true atheist acquires this reality after testing the evidence and after finding it wanting walks away from belief. The evidence for Christianity hasn't gotten any better so the reasons for believing again are limited. As I said one reason for walking away from atheism is that you were never really an atheist, or in spite of the evidence decided you would rather really believe just in case or because there is safety in numbers or you valued the social interaction of the majority.The bottom line is that the most you have to convince anyone that you are right is just belief and nothing more. I would rather know than believe.

 

[reznwerks]

truth

Although I have never 'converted' to atheism, I have entertained periods of atheistic thought. I may have actually become one had there been any logical reason to do so, or if atheism would have offered anything at all positive, or useful. .

How about the truth? Would you rather believe in a falsehood because it feels good or would you rather know the truth? Not all people can or should try to handle the truth. You are correct that atheism offers nothing in itself. It doesn't offer life everlasting for just believing, it doesn't offer support of social interaction as a byproduct of believing, and you will most likely be looked down upon by those that do believe. The one thing that atheism will give you is the freedom to live your life in peace and free from the guilt induced ideas of Christianity and the life long fear of failing to do what is required to end up in eternity in and everburning hell.

 

[Featherbop]

Wow, you really are shaping up into quite an atheist fundy, rezn.

First of all, you have already closed your mind to the fact that many people are theistic or christian because they are convicted by the evidence, not because there is none in their support(Are you blatantly lying, or just spewing propaganda to try to wear others down?)

Secondly, what evidence do you have that is suggestive of God not existing? Please, give it. You are all talk and no action here. You really need to stop saying things that you can't back up.

 

[destiny]

It doesn't offer life everlasting for just believing

neither does christianity.

it doesn't offer support of social interaction as a byproduct of believing

neither does true christianity, assembling ourselves with another believer can be only two people, everything you see out there in the organized church is a far cry from biblical assembling and you'd be surprized at how few are trully 'christians'. It's not what you think.

you will most likely be looked down upon by those that do believe.

John 15:18-19
If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

The one thing that atheism will give you is the freedom to live your life in peace and free from the guilt induced ideas of Christianity

Jesus took all of my guilt away and gave me a new life, He gave me the peace that I could never obtain in the world.
Everything you have said just proves that you don't have a clue as to what true christianity really is, nor have you ever been a true christian or known God.
Maybe you've had some pee poor representation, but you don't even begin to know who God really is.

free from the guilt induced ideas

*ideas* need I say more?

 

[Chupacabra]

So true. Atheism's inability to answer those kinds of questions is one of the many reasons I have rejected atheism. It is not even a complete or holistic world view.

So because atheism doesn't offer an answer to everything it must be wrong?

Christian belief is not separated from philosophy. Today, as it has always been throughout history, some of the most respected philosophers are Christians as well.

To a degree. There have indeed been many great Christian philosophers, but many less-than-stellar ones as well. Because to be a Christian you really must accept all of Christianity, one is forced to presuppose that a great amount of material is true prior to thinking about it and must come to a conclusion first (by faith) and rationalize it later. A good example of such a Christian sophist is St. Anselm, the originator of the ontological argument for the existance of a god. There have also been numerous non-Christian philosophers and social theorist throughout the years, particularly in Greece, the far East, and Germany.

Besides, there is nothing wrong in questioning.... that is exactly what many Christians spend the rest of their lives doing. Questioning and learning.

In my opinion the idea of hell is major inhibitor to critical thought in Christianity. After all, if one is wrong one may be cast in the lake of fire simply for straying from Christianity or from a narrow interpretation of Christianity.

 

[Vic C.]

such as all Africans that never heard of Jesus went to hell

Where did you pull that from?. Jesus was very clear when he said that people were judged on what they know. God doesnt judge people who cant have heard of him. I dont know exactly how that works but god is a righteous god he wont send someone to hell just because we hadnt got there with the gospel yet...

Hi Will, I have posted this many times here, but will post it again because of it's revelance.

Romans 2

-11- For there is no partiality with God.
-12- For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law
-13- (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
-14- for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
-15- who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)

 

[Gary]

Gary: Been there... done that. Any atheist is welcome to contact me and hear the real story.

rez: It is doubtful that you were ever really an atheist.

Gary: I was an atheist for over 30 years. I have seen your arguments and "reasoning" before. In fact, I could argue the case for atheism better than you can!! As I have suggested several times, if you read books at all, I can suggest a few books for you to read.

I was "Christian" until 16 and then atheist for an additional 30 years. Still so sure rezn that I was NOT an atheist? How should I prove that? I can give you a few user names I used and the chat rooms I "debated" in.... and you can go ask several Christians if they knew me before my conversion. But I doubt even that would be enough for you.....

I am willing to share that with you in PM. I am also willing to share how/why your atheist "witness" is so weak and why no one really takes you seriously here. Again, let us do that in PM.

rez: To become an atheist one usually does so after being a theist.

Gary: Really? So how long were YOU a theist? We have seen several times that you do not even know the Bible so what kind of theist were you anyway? I doubt you were ever a Christian. IF you think you were a Christian, how long was that for? What was your favorite book in the Bible? What were your favorite verses? What parables did you find most striking? How did you follow Jesus Christ? How did you do that? Did you read the Bible regularly? Did you attend church? Were you part of any small group / Bible study group?

rez: A true atheist acquires this reality after testing the evidence and after finding it wanting walks away from belief.

Gary: And a true Christian gets to know his Maker and Creator and Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, by the grace of God; it is a gift from Him (John 3:8 1 Cor 1:28-31). However, we must accept this gift (Luke 13:24-25 John 17:3 Romans 10:8-12). All honest seekers are rewarded (Matthew 7:7-8). Then the reality of God is revealed to that honest seeker (Hebrews 11:6). Jesus is at the door knocking. YOU decide if you want to let Him in (Revelation 3:20). Obviously, there is also a big difference about knowing ABOUT Jesus and knowing Him (Hebrews 4:2).

If there is still something you do not understand about conversion from atheism, please ask. I am interested in what books you have read on both sides of the fence. We could compare notes on those books.

 

[reznwerks]

belief

Gary: Been there... done that. Any atheist is welcome to contact me and hear the real story.

rez: It is doubtful that you were ever really an atheist.

Gary: I was an atheist for over 30 years. I have seen your arguments and "reasoning" before. In fact, I could argue the case for atheism better than you can!! As I have suggested several times, if you read books at all, I can suggest a few books for you to read.
If you use all the arguements that atheists use it is highly unlikely you would still believe. As I said if you believe you do so in spite of the evidence not because of it.

I was "Christian" until 16 and then atheist for an additional 30 years. Still so sure rezn that I was NOT an atheist? How should I prove that? I can give you a few user names I used and the chat rooms I "debated" in.... and you can go ask several Christians if they knew me before my conversion. But I doubt even that would be enough for you.....
You could claim to be an atheist for 50 years and it would not matter. If you weren't convinced that the evidence for Christianity is based on mere faith and no solid evidence then in your heart you weren't an atheist. For you to claim that you were a true atheist and now are a Christian the analogy would be something like 2+2=4 but you still believe it is something else.

I am willing to share that with you in PM. I am also willing to share how/why your atheist "witness" is so weak and why no one really takes you seriously here. Again, let us do that in PM.
I am not here to "witness". No one comes to atheism unless one thinks. Atheism is not a denomination.

rez: To become an atheist one usually does so after being a theist.

Gary: Really? So how long were YOU a theist? We have seen several times that you do not even know the Bible so what kind of theist were you anyway? I doubt you were ever a Christian. IF you think you were a Christian, how long was that for? What was your favorite book in the Bible? What were your favorite verses? What parables did you find most striking? How did you follow Jesus Christ? How did you do that? Did you read the Bible regularly? Did you attend church? Were you part of any small group / Bible study group?
You're arguements don't hold water.If you read your bible you could not possibly worship this creator if he existed. The God of the bible is an ego maniac that craves power and submission.He demands worship and attention. These are traits of a child with a tantrum. There is nothing in the bible that is verifiable except some historical locations and maybe some historical figures. That doesn't mean the whole bible is true. The rest of the story has been borrowed by other religions and the fact that no one outside of the bible records these fantastic stories is strongly suggestive they are false.Their are other saviors in mans history with just as much evidence as Jesus. However only yours is the real one. It wouldn't matter if I memorized the whole bible or went to church every day of the week. The evidence is lacking, contradictory, and false. Just because one studies a book means nothing. If I met with a group that studied mythology all that it would mean is that I am well versed in mythology.

rez: A true atheist acquires this reality after testing the evidence and after finding it wanting walks away from belief.

Gary: And a true Christian gets to know his Maker and Creator and Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, by the grace of God; it is a gift from Him (John 3:8 1 Cor 1:28-31). However, we must accept this gift (Luke 13:24-25 John 17:3 Romans 10:8-12). All honest seekers are rewarded (Matthew 7:7-8). Then the reality of God is revealed to that honest seeker (Hebrews 11:6). Jesus is at the door knocking. YOU decide if you want to let Him in (Revelation 3:20). Obviously, there is also a big difference about knowing ABOUT Jesus and knowing Him (Hebrews 4:2).
You think you know him. This is in your mind. Consider it a form of self hypnosis. The brain is the cause of all this.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/20 ... rain.shtml

If there is still something you do not understand about conversion from atheism, please ask. I am interested in what books you have read on both sides of the fence. We could compare notes on those books.
I don't need to read a book to tell me how to weigh the evidence and make a decision . If something has no evidence or if the evidence is unlikely or if the evidence is likely to be suspect and if there isn't any other corroborating evidence then the claim is likely to be bogus unless proven otherwise.To believe in spite of the lack of evidence is to be dishonest with oneself to believe so as to cover all the bases is like whistling in the dark.

 

[Gary]

Still no answers...

Gary: If you (rez) think you were a Christian, how long was that for? What was your favorite book in the Bible? What were your favorite verses? What parables did you find most striking? How did you follow Jesus Christ? How did you do that? Did you read the Bible regularly? Did you attend church? Were you part of any small group / Bible study group?

Those should be fairly easy questions for you to answer.



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Gary: If there is still something you do not understand about conversion from atheism, please ask. I am interested in what books you have read on both sides of the fence. We could compare notes on those books.

rez: I don't need to read a book to tell me how to weigh the evidence and make a decision.

Gary: So you have not read any books about atheism nor any about Christianity? Is that what you are implying? If not, which books have you read?

:wink:

 

[reznwerks]

ad

Still no answers...

Gary: If you (rez) think you were a Christian, how long was that for? What was your favorite book in the Bible? What were your favorite verses? What parables did you find most striking? How did you follow Jesus Christ? How did you do that? Did you read the Bible regularly? Did you attend church? Were you part of any small group / Bible study group?

Those should be fairly easy questions for you to answer.



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Gary: If there is still something you do not understand about conversion from atheism, please ask. I am interested in what books you have read on both sides of the fence. We could compare notes on those books.

rez: I don't need to read a book to tell me how to weigh the evidence and make a decision.

Gary: So you have not read any books about atheism nor any about Christianity? Is that what you are implying? If not, which books have you read?

:wink:

As usual when Gary can't dispute the message attack the messenger.

 

[Gary]

Attack? All I did was ask questions. They should be easy to answer.

8-) 8-)

P.S. Feel free to ask me ANY question as to why I abandoned atheism.