Atheist Conversions

[reznwerks]

alright

Attack? All I did was ask questions. They should be easy to answer.

8-) 8-)

P.S. Feel free to ask me ANY question as to why I abandoned atheism.

Alright I'll bite , why did you abandon atheism? Feel better now?

 

[radical]

Well I've actually seen two christians deconvert. It actually took place on a message board! One lady was at one time real strong in her faith, then started hanging out with the wrong crowd,later started hanging out in clubs,and rationalizing her behavior as a christian. At this time the board became filled with liberal christians and atheist...she soon took on their philosophy.Make a long story short -she had an affair (she had a good hubby and 3kids together) I'm assuming she didn't want to be called a hypocrite, so she publicly denounced her faith bc she wanted to live a sinful lifestyle. Instead of her just being honest, she fooled herself into believing she hadn't enough proof etc.

I said all that to say this! I do believe christians deconvert for many reasons such as what they deem contradictions etc, but also a vast majority fall away b/c they want to live a lifestyle of sin, but mask their reason for deconverting as some of the reasons mentioned above!

~IN HIM

 

[DivineNames]

Re: belief

You think you know him. This is in your mind. Consider it a form of self hypnosis. The brain is the cause of all this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/20 ... rain.shtml

The programme summary you gave a link for doesn't exactly prove what you claim.

I have seen the episode.

The scientists involved claimed to have reproduced religious experience in the laboratory with their "wired-up helmet designed to concentrate magnetic fields on the temporal lobes of the wearer." Therefore religious experience is purely bio-chemical-electrical in origin.


Firstly, it seems that they didn't reproduce religious experience-

"Sykes does, though, see a great difference between a 'sensed presence' and a genuine religious experience."


What they managed to reproduce seems more like the content of "sleep paralysis" or an edge of sleep kind of experience.



Secondly, if they had reproduced religious experience it wouldn't be anything original. It has already been done, certain kinds of (apparent) mystical experience can be catalyzed with psychedelic drugs.


Pahnke's "Good Friday Experiment": A Long-Term Follow-Up and Methodological Critique by Rick Doblin

http://druglibrary.org/schaffer/lsd/doblin.htm


"On Good Friday, 1962, before services commenced in Boston University's Marsh Chapel, Walter Pahnke administered small capsules to twenty Protestant divinity students. Thus began the most scientific experiment in the literature designed to investigate the potential of psychedelic drugs to facilitate mystical experience"



We know that bio-chemical-electrical changes in the brain (at least) plays a part in (at least) some religious experience, but this doesn't tell us whether or not there is a God, or whether or not that kind of religious experience is genuine.

 

[huj05]

Atheist.. been that way since i was 7.. I did sorta try a few other religions. Went to church a few times. Read large portions of the bible.. But gave up. I see too many falacys that can't be explained logically.

When i put it scale to scale, on which one has more problems.. christianity seems to be it. I can answer 98% of things for atheism, or have someoen else that knows.. But christianity ive onyl found about 70% of the answers to be relevant and not include a "just because god is" in it


But ya.. If god came to me, or allah or anyone else, and said "hey, I am real so start believing before i smite you" i would convert..

 

[Featherbop]

Re: ad

Still no answers...

Gary: If you (rez) think you were a Christian, how long was that for? What was your favorite book in the Bible? What were your favorite verses? What parables did you find most striking? How did you follow Jesus Christ? How did you do that? Did you read the Bible regularly? Did you attend church? Were you part of any small group / Bible study group?

Those should be fairly easy questions for you to answer.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gary: If there is still something you do not understand about conversion from atheism, please ask. I am interested in what books you have read on both sides of the fence. We could compare notes on those books.

rez: I don't need to read a book to tell me how to weigh the evidence and make a decision.

Gary: So you have not read any books about atheism nor any about Christianity? Is that what you are implying? If not, which books have you read?

:wink:

As usual when Gary can't dispute the message attack the messenger.

All you are doing is stating your baseless opinions. Why not debate with Gary instead of flouting your *false* beleifs?

You are continue being an easy target unless and until you can control your lying tongue. Or would you just like to ignore this as usual?

 

[Quath]

such as all Africans that never heard of Jesus went to hell

Where did you pull that from?. Jesus was very clear when he said that people were judged on what they know. God doesnt judge people who cant have heard of him. I dont know exactly how that works but god is a righteous god he wont send someone to hell just because we hadnt got there with the gospel yet.

They base it on passages like John 14:6 - "I am the way, the truth, and the life: No man cometh unto the father, but by me". Therefore, Africans that never heard of Jesus can not come to heaven.

I suppose you also belive that christianity teaches that all childeren go to hell if they die young because they havent accepted jesus yet.....

If you believe John 14:6, then babies must not go to heaven. Doesn't mean they have to go to hell. Maybe they go to purgatory or get unmade.

Quath

 

[Quath]

Thats right will, and a person would have to be either very gullible or not in relationhip with God to deconvert just because of someone teaching something that doesn't even line up with scripture. Thats why it's essential to know the one whom you are in relationship with intimately, not just by word but by spirit. You have to know God for yourself.

I think it just opens the door of doubt. Once you doubt one scripture, it is a lot easier to start questioning everything. For some, it may be that God supported slavery. For others, it may be that God made hell. And yet for others it may be doubting the literal stories. It can becime a slippery slope.

The bible tells us to let the Holy Spirit teach us, thats because the word of God isn't just natural it's also supernatural. The Holy Spirit has to play a part in teaching us so that man can't lead us astray.

If this is true, who do some people get guided by the Holy Spirit and others do not? Also, the people that claim to be guided by the Holy Spirit are going in opposite directions from each other. This would indicate that either they are making up the feeling of being led or there is more than one holy spirit.

Theres a spiritual side to knowing God, and if you don't have it you are just a sitting duck for a snake oil salsesman, or for deconversion. This the part that isn't explainable to an atheist.

It seems that this spiritual side is either a special state of the brain that one can et frommeditation or it is just the desire for something to be real so it seems real. But maybe I am wrong. But until I get more proof, I have to doubt.

Quath

 

[reznwerks]

Re: ad

All you are doing is stating your baseless opinions. Why not debate with Gary instead of flouting your *false* beleifs?

You are continue being an easy target unless and until you can control your lying tongue. Or would you just like to ignore this as usual?

A debate is not necessary or possible with Gary. Gary only uses one book and it is not considered reliable. When someone makes a claim there should be at least several reliable sources in order to make a reliable assumption that something is true.What you term "false beliefs" are based on known evidence or known lack of evidence. You just believe for the sake of believing. I would rather know than believe.

 

[Gary]

Re: ad

All you are doing is stating your baseless opinions. Why not debate with Gary instead of flouting your *false* beleifs?

You are continue being an easy target unless and until you can control your lying tongue. Or would you just like to ignore this as usual?

A debate is not necessary or possible with Gary. Gary only uses one book and it is not considered reliable. When someone makes a claim there should be at least several reliable sources in order to make a reliable assumption that something is true.What you term "false beliefs" are based on known evidence or known lack of evidence. You just believe for the sake of believing. I would rather know than believe.

Gary: I am interested in what books you have read on both sides of the fence. We could compare notes on those books.

rez: I don't need to read a book to tell me how to weigh the evidence and make a decision.

Gary: So you have not read any books about atheism nor any about Christianity? Is that what you are implying? If not, which books have you read?

These are very simple questions rez. Which books have you read?

 

[huj05]

using a 1500k+ year old book, that has been re-translated many many times, and new words sometiems appear in there to make some things work better (the whole if animals were created before or after man thing) isnt very reliable. Especially since it wasnt written the day, year or even close to when it happened (all of it)


I think teh bible takes the cake for teh longest game of telephone..

Im not trying to be rude, But it is not a very good piece of evidence..

 

[destiny]

hujo5, its spelled T-H-E not teh, it's T-H-E!!

 

[huj05]

ok.. let me take my wonderful left hand, which happens to have a slightly deformed finger due to an acident, and make that pointer finger of mine thats slightly shorter than the rest, a lil longer so it can type better....

I dont TRY to type bad like that. But because of that injury (suffered about 8 months ago) i tend to misplace some letters, especially in the word 'the' I try not to, But sometimes i dont have all the time of the day to write out a message here..

Let me go get a pair of tongs and a partner.. we can extend that for you..

 

[reznwerks]

Re: ad

[quote="Darck Marck":4fbd7]All you are doing is stating your baseless opinions. Why not debate with Gary instead of flouting your *false* beleifs?

You are continue being an easy target unless and until you can control your lying tongue. Or would you just like to ignore this as usual?

A debate is not necessary or possible with Gary. Gary only uses one book and it is not considered reliable. When someone makes a claim there should be at least several reliable sources in order to make a reliable assumption that something is true.What you term "false beliefs" are based on known evidence or known lack of evidence. You just believe for the sake of believing. I would rather know than believe.

Gary: I am interested in what books you have read on both sides of the fence. We could compare notes on those books.

rez: I don't need to read a book to tell me how to weigh the evidence and make a decision.

Gary: So you have not read any books about atheism nor any about Christianity? Is that what you are implying? If not, which books have you read?

These are very simple questions rez. Which books have you read?

[/quote:4fbd7]
Try to understand this one point Gary.If a book is not going to reveal some way to reveal solid evidence then I'm not going to bother reading it.I don't need to read volumes of books on atheism or Christianity to know that Christianity has no basis for firm beliefs and nothing has changed to make "atheism" obsolete.It would be on the six oclock news if it did. You don't get common sense from a book. I am a skeptic in more areas than just religion. Being skeptical is a healthy state of mind. It keeps you from accepting all kinds of bull%^% as fact. It extends into political ideas, commerce, and just about any other area that makes a claim.

 

[Gary]

... do you read ANY books? Have you ever read ONE?

Magazines? Newspapers? Comics?




Please elaborate...





(P.S. You said: "It would be on the six oclock news if it did."
Does Associated Press -AP- news qualify?
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=12297
and
http://www.ap.org/
especially
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=12292 )

:wink: :wink:

 

[reznwerks]

lol

... do you read ANY books? Have you ever read ONE?

Magazines? Newspapers? Comics?




Please elaborate...





(P.S. You said: "It would be on the six oclock news if it did."
Does Associated Press -AP- news qualify?
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=12297
and
http://www.ap.org/
especially
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=12292 )

:wink: :wink:

LOL This is why theists have a hard time with evidence. Flew was a philosopher not a scientist. I thought we settled that a while ago.
Here is a link that might help you with your thinking process.
http://www.austhink.org/critical/

 

[Gary]

Scientists who are Christians

LOL... I could recommend a few books.... but as you do not read books, I will give you a web site instead.

http://www.rae.org/believe.html

and for a fuller list, by author
http://www.rae.org/essay_author.html

I know you don't read books, but check this out...
http://www.christiananswers.net/creatio ... /home.html



:bday: :bday:

Maybe a friend could read this to you or you could look at the pictures:
http://www.christiananswers.net/catalog/bk-sixdays.html
Why 50 Scientists Choose to Believe in Creation

:wink:

 

[destiny]

ok.. let me take my wonderful left hand, which happens to have a slightly deformed finger due to an acident, and make that pointer finger of mine thats slightly shorter than the rest, a lil longer so it can type better....

I dont TRY to type bad like that. But because of that injury (suffered about 8 months ago) i tend to misplace some letters, especially in the word 'the' I try not to, But sometimes i dont have all the time of the day to write out a message here..

Let me go get a pair of tongs and a partner.. we can extend that for you..

I apologize, i really have seen people spell it that way on purpose and i never could figure out why. I had no idea about your accident, so please forgive my lack of sensitivity.

 

[Quath]

Scientists who are Christians

If you value the opinion of scients, then here are some interesting polls.

From Scientific American, September 1999: Whereas 90% of the general population has a distinct belief in a personal god and a life after death, only 40% of scientists on the B.S. level favor this belief in religion and merely 10 % of those who are considered 'eminent' scientists believe in a personal god or in an afterlife."

From Nature, 394(6691):313, 23 July 1998: A recent survey of members of the National Academy of Sciences showed that 72% are outright atheists, 21% are agnostic and only 7% admit to belief in a personal God.

Quath

 

[reznwerks]

subject

Scientists who are Christians

LOL... I could recommend a few books.... but as you do not read books, I will give you a web site instead.
You should put the books down because apparantly you don't understand what you read.

http://www.rae.org/believe.html
Here is a quote from this site which shows the man is not unbiased in his approach to science.
What are your goals as a scientist?

Dr. Baumgardner:" I would say my primary goal in my scientific career is a defense of God's Word, plain and simple. In our day it's like the Philistines in the days of Saul and David. When David came to the battle to bring some supplies to his brothers, he heard Goliath taunting the armies of Israel. And David said, "Who is this uncircumcised Philistine that he should defy the armies of the living God?" (1 Samuel 17:26). I believe the church is like the Israelite army, cowering in the face of Goliath, when there ought to be people stepping forth to slay Goliath. God's Word is being mocked and ridiculed today throughout the academic world, and I say it's time for Christians to stand up and take on these challenges. "


Soon after I became a Christian, when I was 26 years old, I started to see what was going on. I guess God put it in my heart to try to do something about this situation.




and for a fuller list, by author
http://www.rae.org/essay_author.html
This site is nothing more than "creation scientists" who do not have an unbiased opinion and more importantly offer no evidence to support their belief or in scientific jargon "theory". Come on Gary you know better.

I know you don't read books, but check this out...
http://www.christiananswers.net/creatio ... /home.html
Amazing all these scientists and 98% still accept evolution as fact. Keep trying Gary. It's all about evidence Gary. It's all about evidence, it's all about evidence. The sad fact is that evidence is on the atheist side. There is no evidence for a God or evidence that Christianity is real.


:bday: :bday:

Maybe a friend could read this to you or you could look at the pictures:
http://www.christiananswers.net/catalog/bk-sixdays.html
Why 50 Scientists Choose to Believe in Creation
Another sad fact of this book is that of all those 'scientists" many have questionable degrees or degrees that are not pertinant to the subject matter. Perhaps looking at he pictures is all you do when you open a book. LOL

:wink:

 

[Gary]

Re: subject - rez and books

Another sad fact of this book is that of all those 'scientists" many have questionable degrees or degrees that are not pertinant to the subject matter.

Gary: Really? Please prove that "fact." By the way, what degree do you have that you are so knowledgable about all these topics without having ever read a book?

:-?