Banned From The Bible

[DivineNames]

If you want to say that the Bible is the standard by which the Quran has to, "measure up and agree with", then it can be pointed out that the Old Testament is the standard by which the New Testament has to measure up to.

And the New Testament does, are you insinuating that it does not ?

Well certainly some people would think that it doesn't. So I was pointing out that the argument you gave can perhaps be turned against Christianity.

 

[DivineNames]

If something is mentioned in a work that is false, that does not necessarily mean that that thing is false. In other words, if God is e.g. mentioned in a work that is deceitful, that does not necessarily mean that God does not exist. Therefore if the Quran mentions the story of Jesus causing clay birds to come alive, the mere fact that the story appears in the Quran does not necessarily mean that the story is untrue.

Presumably the argument in play is something along the lines–

(a) The Quran contains material from the Talmud and Apocrypha.
(b) This is understandable if the Quran is the work of man, (they borrowed material to write it), but why would God need to plagiarize from those sources?

 

[Lewis]

In 1997 I read the whole book that Robert Morey, put out called, The Islamic Invasion. From this book I learned the truth about Islam. It lets you know mostly everything. It tells you the history and what books the Quran got most of their stuff from, and it is a lot of them. I have them I just don't feel like typing all the names at this moment. Unless someone prompts me to.
You can find out about the book here.

http://www.chick.com/catalog/books/0173.asp

http://www.chick.com/bc/1993/islamicinvasion.asp

About Robert Morey
http://www.chick.com/information/authors/morey.asp

 

[snowfloater]

Re: more

* The Book of Jubilees: This obscure Hebrew text offers an answer to a
question that has vexed Christians for centuries -- if Adam and Eve
only had sons, and if no other humans existed, who gave birth to
humanity? This text reveals that Adam and Eve had nine children and
that Cain's younger sister Awan became his wife. The idea that humanity
was born of incest would have been radical -- and heretical.

This is a question I've always found interesting. A lot of people don't much like to think about this question. The only options, really, are:

- God created people other than Adam and Eve, but failed to mention it.
- Incest used to be okay, but stopped being okay at some indeterminate point in the Bible.
- Genesis, or at least parts of it, are metaphorical.

If you're a literalist, you're more or less compelled to go with the incest option, but that conflicts with a lot of people's built-in ick-mechanisms.

Does the Bible say that Cane and Able were Adam and Eve's first children? If they were then who were the people that Cane was scared of after he killed his brother? How much time was Adam and Eve on the planet before they had children and how old were Cane and Able when they had it out? I also find this line of questions very interesting. Thanks for the new study topic! Snowfloater

 

[Lewis]

Re: more

* The Book of Jubilees: This obscure Hebrew text offers an answer to a
question that has vexed Christians for centuries -- if Adam and Eve
only had sons, and if no other humans existed, who gave birth to
humanity? This text reveals that Adam and Eve had nine children and
that Cain's younger sister Awan became his wife. The idea that humanity
was born of incest would have been radical -- and heretical.

This is a question I've always found interesting. A lot of people don't much like to think about this question. The only options, really, are:

- God created people other than Adam and Eve, but failed to mention it.
- Incest used to be okay, but stopped being okay at some indeterminate point in the Bible.
- Genesis, or at least parts of it, are metaphorical.

If you're a literalist, you're more or less compelled to go with the incest option, but that conflicts with a lot of people's built-in ick-mechanisms.

Does the Bible say that Cane and Able were Adam and Eve's first children? If they were then who were the people that Cane was scared of after he killed his brother? How much time was Adam and Eve on the planet before they had children and how old were Cane and Able when they had it out? I also find this line of questions very interesting. Thanks for the new study topic! Snowfloater

Hmmmm, a subject that I studied years ago, I'll tell you what go to this link and read, and when you finish, you will know the truth. Because I don't feel like explaining it all, I was getting ready to, but that is to much typing. And well taught Christians know the truth, and we know that the Adam and Eve had more children, the man lived to be 930 years old, and sisters and brothers married, God did give the command to populate the earth. But anyway I found a link for the people that don't know. Oh and one more thing I am not ashamed because that went on at that time, because I know the reason why. And after the fall, as decay began to set in the blood lines as time went on in mans downward spiral. It was not good to do this anymore because problems would arise because of the changes created by the fall. And as the earth populated and got to a certain point God decreased the years that men could live gradually. Hey I said that I was not going to do a lot of typing.

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c004.html

 

[Cern]

In 1997 I read the whole book that Robert Morey, put out called, The Islamic Invasion. From this book I learned the truth about Islam. It lets you know mostly everything. It tells you the history and what books the Quran got most of their stuff from, and it is a lot of them. I have them I just don't feel like typing all the names at this moment. Unless someone prompts me to.
You can find out about the book here.

http://www.chick.com/catalog/books/0173.asp

http://www.chick.com/bc/1993/islamicinvasion.asp

About Robert Morey
http://www.chick.com/information/authors/morey.asp

Such a pity you use Chick as the source. Jack Chick is rather extreme in his beliefs about what goes on in other faiths. Extreme to the point of pure invention. But if we're going on the basis that a source that is proven to be false (just take a look at his hallowe'en tracts then ask some Pagans or even some sane/honest ex pagans if he is in his right mind. Yes he really is grossly incorrect in his views about most Pagans) cannot contain anything that is accurate then your book recommendation would also fall into that category. Mind you, I'm just a Pagan so I must be lying, eh? ;)

BB

Mike

 

[stray bullet]

Is this a pro-Catholic segment about the apocrapha or deuterocannonical books? I don't have the history channel.

The deuterocanon is not banned from the bible- it was removed from protestant bibles during the Reformation. It was considered canon by all other Christians groups, from east to west, north and south.

The name of the show is incredibly misleading- nothing was 'banned', books were just not included because they weren't Christian texts.

 

[Vic C.]

It would be worthy to note that the Greek Septuagint included these writings but the Masoretic Text (the OT in Hebrew) did not. The Jewish Council of Jamnia in 90 A.D. based their Hebrew Canon on this text.

In this light, omitting the Deuterocanonical books predates the Reformation by hundreds and hundreds of years.

 

[thessalonian]

It would be worthy to note that the Greek Septuagint included these writings but the Masoretic Text (the OT in Hebrew) did not. The Jewish Council of Jamnia in 90 A.D. based their Hebrew Canon on this text.

In this light, omitting the Deuterocanonical books predates the Reformation by hundreds and hundreds of years.

The Septuagint was used by Jesus and the Disciples. We know that from the many quotes they used from the Septuagint, over 300 of them. So if it was good enough for them why is it not good enough for us. Do you think the Holy Spirit guided what went on at Jamnia? (there was no real council there). Including them by the way predates the reformation by hundreds and hundreds of years. They were included by Christians so that would seem to add weight over them being left out by Jews at Jamnia.

 

[Vic C.]

... The Septuagint was used by Jesus and the Disciples. We know that from the many quotes they used from the Septuagint, over 300 of them.

Agreed... and if you will remember, we both qouted a few examples a while back.

So if it was good enough for them why is it not good enough for us. Do you think the Holy Spirit guided what went on at Jamnia? (there was no real council there). Including them by the way predates the reformation by hundreds and hundreds of years. They were included by Christians so that would seem to add weight over them being left out by Jews at Jamnia.

My post was only to add some extra historical facts to the thread. I'm just tired of reading it was the Reformers that did this, when in fact, they were just following suit... most likely to further seperate theirselves from Rome. :wink:

No Holy Spirit guiding was evident in Jamnia. They had ulterior motives for excluding those writings. IMO, the outakes do not necessarily discredit Christianity at all... that should explain their motives, heh? 8-)

 

[thessalonian]

Ok

 

[LittleNipper]

My take is that what is contained in the Holy Scriptures points to the LORD JESUS CHRIST and HIS eternal purpose. The other texts are mostly Gnostic texts that tend to redirect the focus from GOD and places it on man and or mystic powers. Also the Gnostic books appear to have been written after Revelation. The date of Revelation being about 95 to 97AD.

 

[jgredline]

Oh those gnostics
http://www.pro4machineworks.com/Gnostic.html

 

[undertow]

The Septuagint was used by Jesus and the Disciples. We know that from the many quotes they used from the Septuagint, over 300 of them. So if it was good enough for them why is it not good enough for us.

An interesting quote from Origen which may reflect on the reliability of the Septuagint:

"Again, through the whole of Job there are many passages in the Hebrew which are wanting in our copies, generally four or five verses, but sometimes, however, even fourteen, and nineteen, and sixteen. But why should I enumerate all the instances I collected with so much labour, to prove that the difference between our copies and those of the Jews did not escape me? In Jeremiah I noticed many instances, and indeed in that book I found much transposition and variation in the readings of the prophecies. Again, in Genesis, the words, "God saw that it was good," when the firmament was made, are not found in the Hebrew, and there is no small dispute among them about this; and other instances are to be found in Genesis, which I marked, for the sake of distinction, with the sign the Greeks call an obelisk, as on the other hand I marked with an asterisk those passages in our copies which are not found in the Hebrew. What needs there to speak of Exodus, where there is such diversity in what is said about the tabernacle and its court, and the ark, and the garments of the high priest and the priests, that sometimes the meaning even does not seem to be akin? And, forsooth, when we notice such things, we are forthwith to reject as spurious the copies in use in our Churches, and enjoin the brotherhood to put away the sacred books current among them, and to coax the Jews, and persuade them to give us copies which shall be untampered with, and free from forgery!" - Origen

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0414.htm

 

[PDoug]

The Septuagint was used by Jesus and the Disciples. We know that from the many quotes they used from the Septuagint, over 300 of them. So if it was good enough for them why is it not good enough for us.

An interesting quote from Origen which may reflect on the reliability of the Septuagint:

"Again, through the whole of Job there are many passages in the Hebrew which are wanting in our copies, generally four or five verses, but sometimes, however, even fourteen, and nineteen, and sixteen. But why should I enumerate all the instances I collected with so much labour, to prove that the difference between our copies and those of the Jews did not escape me? In Jeremiah I noticed many instances, and indeed in that book I found much transposition and variation in the readings of the prophecies. Again, in Genesis, the words, "God saw that it was good," when the firmament was made, are not found in the Hebrew, and there is no small dispute among them about this; and other instances are to be found in Genesis, which I marked, for the sake of distinction, with the sign the Greeks call an obelisk, as on the other hand I marked with an asterisk those passages in our copies which are not found in the Hebrew. What needs there to speak of Exodus, where there is such diversity in what is said about the tabernacle and its court, and the ark, and the garments of the high priest and the priests, that sometimes the meaning even does not seem to be akin? And, forsooth, when we notice such things, we are forthwith to reject as spurious the copies in use in our Churches, and enjoin the brotherhood to put away the sacred books current among them, and to coax the Jews, and persuade them to give us copies which shall be untampered with, and free from forgery!" - Origen

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0414.htm

Origen had no real faith (which was borne out by his actions), and foolishly condemned inspired works because of it. You guys don’t seem to realize that Christ and all of God liked seeding their works with stumbling blocks, to throw off those who in fact don’t have real faith. Origen and the others who blasphemed against the works of the Holy Spirit (‘in the name of God’ at that) tried to do a kind of linear interpretation of the scriptures. This cannot be done. In as much as Christ seemed to contradict the law by working on the Sabbath, and saying things like it is what comes out of a man’s mouth which defiles him (not what goes in), God lined His most holy works with apparent contradictions and absurdities, which only someone counseled by the Holy Spirit, could properly recognize and appreciate. Therefore rather than Origen showing himself to be a righteous, intelligent man, Origen proved to God and all those counseled by the Holy Spirit that he was faithless and ignorant of the things he condemned.