Baptism Doesn't Save You.

[kingdavid]

"Christ" already chose? Where is the Scriptures for that, please...

God desires ALL men to be saved. If He "picks and chooses" before they are even born, then He does not desire all men to be saved. You misunderstand Scriptures.

Being baptized is a work of God, my friend. No one baptizes themselves. Didn't you pay attention at your catechism classes? It is through baptism that we are buried with Christ. (see Romans 6:2-6) Without Christ, you aren't saved. Does the Bible suggest another means of being saved, then by uniting oneself to Christ? Unless you are born from above through water and the Spirit (baptism)...

Regards

Seriously, you need to study God's Word.

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, " Eph. 1:4-5

Annie, you are making a mistake here, no doubt because of the false teachings you follow that force you to read the above the way you do...

It says God predestined us to be His adopted children. Not that Jesus would chose who would go to heaven and be saved...

The JEWS were God's "adopted children", as well. Will all Jews go to heaven as a result? Would you like the pertinent Bible verses?

Entering the Church, being a child of God, is only the first step in inheriting eternal salvation. One must persevere until the end. We must have faith working in love.

You are presuming that once a child of God, you will enter heaven automatically. That makes a LOT of the Bible superfluous, don't you think? All that talk about obeying the commandments, obeying God, love, etc... All would be pointless if God picks and chooses and we do nothing.

God does not desire ALL men to be saved. Where have you seen this in the Bible?

I need to study the Bible??? Annie, the Lord loves mankind - why would He not desire that we all be saved??? He didn't send His only Son to die for a handful of people...

This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a full knowledge of the truth. 1 Tim 2:4 ESV

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth 1 Tim 2:4 KJV

Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?...For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye. Ez 18: 23, 32 KJV

Catechism classes?

You claimed to have went to Catholic school for what, 10 years? Didn't you learn anything there?

Truth is found only in the Bible...

Baloney. Where does the Bible discuss the Great Wall of China or the cure for small pox? How about space travel or microbiology? The Bible is not the "only" place to find the truth...

Furthermore, the Catechism and the Creed are Biblically based.

"All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. -2Tim. 3:16-17

Nothing about the ONLY source of truth, Annie. This is the most misapplied verse in Scriptures, no doubt, leading so many men and women into false teachings.

Of course it is PROFITABLE. So is fasting and alms-giving. But so is the Church that you left...

He {Christ} gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ Eph 4:11-13

Down falls the tradition of men, sola scriptura...

Your religious beliefs contradict the truth found in God's Word, my friend. You must study the Bible for truth... not a catechism.

I am here to tell you, Annie, that not one person on this forum in the long time I have been here has proven that any solemnly defined teaching of the Catholic Church is wrong. Lots of people THINK they know what they are talking about, but when they decide to go against the pillar and foundation of the Truth (according to the Bible), they inevitably fall short.

God is calling you back. Do not turn away from Him.

Regards

no, the commandment of the Lord in revelations 18 is to come out of her- that apostate church-the great whore. the church which paul espoused to christ but she allowed herself to be seduced/beguiled by that false prophet/pope and all his cardinal birds that lodged in the tree and corrupted it. these evil and wicked men that propagate false teaching and doctrines of devils. they sow the enemies seed and corrupt your mind which is the womb of the spirit and thereby you are just as beguiled/seduced as eve was in the beginning.

they propagate all the pagan teachings from the old babylonian false religion b4 them. they teach intecessors of saints which comes from the intercession of the ancestors in babylon. they preach the mother and son false religion from babylon. they wear the old babylonian dagons on their heads that look like a fish's mouth. they took the nun and convent system from the babylonian religion. they made a priestly hierarchy in the church which emulates the babylonian religion. they took all the babylonian idols and put saints names to them(the statue mary was the babylonian goddess semuramis and the baby was osiris or osiris reborn as the son-god). it is pure paganism wolf teachings but given a sheeps covering. it's the delusion of the devil. she even assurps the name of the church and not the name of Jesus Christ. the Lord commanded us to take his NAME but she doesn't. she takes titles of father, son, and holy ghost and not his name like the true church originally did. they understood that they should baptize in the name of jesus christ which is the name of the father, son and holy ghost. Jesus said i come in my Father's name and the holy ghost will come in my NAME. that name is the name of jesus christ and the true apostles know and understand this and the true church, and she will be true to his Name. this apostate church does not live true to her husband and refuses to repent and take his NAME.

 

[francisdesales]

no, the commandment of the Lord in revelations 18 is to come out of her- that apostate church-the great whore.

The Bible doesn't call the "harlot" the Church. ANYWHERE. Only in your deluded nightmares. John is a man of the Church, writing to the Church, leading the members of the Church, being a PART of the Church. Yet again, your ignoramous interpretation contradicts the very Bible that you pretend to defend.

John is calling people out of the "world". Have you read the OT? "Babylon" and "harlot" refer to the wicked ways of the world, the ways that are against God, not an "organization" or a ESPECIALLY a "religion". Your misapplication of "harlot" to the Church has no biblical backing, it is just eigesis, which is par for the course for you. Have you even given ONE Scriptural verse in context yet?

 

[Paidion]

At one time, I thought you came on a little too strong, Francis. But not any more. The propagators of some of these inane pronouncements need to be strongly rebuked and corrected.

Though I think the early church gradually evolved into modern Catholicism, the latter having swerved from its original practices and teachings, I believe the truth that it still retains is far greater than that which remains in Protestantism, and especially in some of its fanatical offshoots.

As I see it, the Catholic church has retained the true teaching about baptism and salvation (though incorrect about infant "baptism"), about the meaning of "enabling grace", about the position of Scripture as a witness without adopting bibliolatry, and about the free will of man. That's a pretty fair record.

 

[kingdavid]

no, the commandment of the Lord in revelations 18 is to come out of her- that apostate church-the great whore.

The Bible doesn't call the "harlot" the Church. ANYWHERE. Only in your deluded nightmares. John is a man of the Church, writing to the Church, leading the members of the Church, being a PART of the Church. Yet again, your ignoramous interpretation contradicts the very Bible that you pretend to defend.

John is calling people out of the "world". Have you read the OT? "Babylon" and "harlot" refer to the wicked ways of the world, the ways that are against God, not an "organization" or a ESPECIALLY a "religion". Your misapplication of "harlot" to the Church has no biblical backing, it is just eigesis, which is par for the course for you. Have you even given ONE Scriptural verse in context yet?

Jesus spoke himself in matthew 13:33 about this woman(i.e a church) that hid leaven/error in 3 measures of meal(father, son, and holy ghost) and leavened the whole lump with her false teaching/doctrine.

i have given several verses to support what i said. paul himself said i have espoused you a chaste virgin unto Christ(this is scripture the last time i read). the church is likened to a woman and is identified in the feminine. the church is a she. she became beguiled/seduced just like paul feared by all these cardinal birds that came and lodged in the tree and corrupted her mind(which is the womb of the spirit) with their false teachings and doctrines and then she herself spread these spiritual fornications and adulteries all through out the world and martyred those who would not bow down to her as John spoke in revelations 17, yet a few genuine believers came out of her in every age and would not receive her marks of unbelief.


catholicism didn't stand fast with the Lord's name as the saints did for the first 300 years.


the church became or received the seeds of babylon into her instead of waiting for her husband to come and receive His seed. thus, she became babylon. revelations 17 says the great whore is that great city that reigneth over all the kings of the earth, so it is not the world because the world is not a great city that sits on seven mountains. it is the holy roman empire that adopted all the pagan babylonian false theology/religion. christ has to put her away in divorce and take another because the first church did not stay true to her husband-the Word.


the apostles spoke of the enemies mostly within not on the outside. they warned of the false christians creeping in and would even take over and corrupt the entire church and leave her desolate.

 

[francisdesales]

Jesus spoke himself in matthew 13:33 about this woman(i.e a church) that hid leaven/error in 3 measures of meal(father, son, and holy ghost) and leavened the whole lump with her false teaching/doctrine.

:naughty

Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

Perhaps in your hatred, you don't even realize what you are saying.

One more time...

Your interpretation has Christ calling the "Kingdom of Heaven" the harlot that teaches false doctrine. YOU are confused, not the Scriptures.

The Kingdom of Heaven is LIKE...!!!

Yours is clearly an exposition from the devil, so I don't think I need to comment any further on your satanic fantasies.

 

[kingdavid]

Jesus spoke himself in matthew 13:33 about this woman(i.e a church) that hid leaven/error in 3 measures of meal(father, son, and holy ghost) and leavened the whole lump with her false teaching/doctrine.

:naughty

Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

Perhaps in your hatred, you don't even realize what you are saying.

One more time...

Your interpretation has Christ calling the "Kingdom of Heaven" the harlot that teaches false doctrine. YOU are confused, not the Scriptures.

The Kingdom of Heaven is LIKE...!!!

Yours is clearly an exposition from the devil, so I don't think I need to comment any further on your satanic fantasies.

THE scripture says satan tainted heaven itself which is why the Lord will destroy heaven it self and create a new heaven and a new earth. Satan working in the framework of the apostate church tainted/corrupted/polluted the preaching of the kingdom of heaven also.

 

[francisdesales]

THE scripture says satan tainted heaven itself which is why the Lord will destroy heaven it self and create a new heaven and a new earth.

Again, you satanic interpretations border on the ridiculously silly.

"Heavens" refers to the PHYSICAL heaven, the planets and other such astronomical bodies. Heaven "where" God dwells will not be destroyed.

Scriptures say nothing unclean shall enter heaven. Satan has not tainted heaven. Your understanding of Scriptures is tainted by your hatred of God's Church.

Clearly, you have very little of value to add to this thread except for divisive "interpretations". Perhaps you should take up a different hobby to fill out your time, like actually reading the bible...

 

[Paidion]

Hey, I just received a revelation, kingdavid!

And Peter said to Jesus, "Master, it is well that we are here; let us make three booths, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah." Mark 9:5 RSV

Peter, being the first pope of the apostate church tried to set up the first Trinity right there, consisting of Jesus, Moses, and Elijah, and he wanted to construct a special shrine for each, so that the apostate church members could come to worship them in idolatry.

 

[francisdesales]

Hey, I just received a revelation, kingdavid!

And Peter said to Jesus, "Master, it is well that we are here; let us make three booths, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah." Mark 9:5 RSV

Peter, being the first pope of the apostate church tried to set up the first Trinity right there, consisting of Jesus, Moses, and Elijah, and he wanted to construct a special shrine for each, so that the apostate church members could come to worship them in idolatry.

You forgot to put the smiley face to indicate you are just joking... :halo

 

[Adullam]

But seek not Bethel, nor enter into Gilgal, and pass not to Beersheba: for Gilgal shall surely go into captivity, and Bethel shall come to nought. Amos 5;5

God does not condone religious shrines. God moves on and so must we. God is dynamic and not static. Once God has moved on, the impure and the futile fills the vacuum.