Bible Study Baptism?

[jerry63935]

When we are forgiven our sins, we at that moment are clean,
sanctified, and holy, and are just as if we had never sinned.

Now we have His Spirit, and the ability to walk according to His Spirit, rather than according to the desires of our flesh.



JLB

no disagreement on this

 

[JLB]

this is why i believe in a know so salvation . i also believe that those who are truly saved and fall away will return. .i realize lots thinks judas was saved.. personally i don't

Ok. Fair enough.

We can start a thread on Judas in the Soteriology Section.


Lets discuss baptism in this thread.


Im sorry if I have steered the discussion off topic.

I only wanted to answer your questions in a straightforward way, without dodging.


Here is the OP question by Religiot.


Is baptism required for salvation?


I answered which baptism.


What is your answer?




JLB

 

[jerry63935]

What is your answer?

i said no certainly the bapt of the spirit bringing us into the body is a must by one spirit are we all baptized
Corinthians 12:13

“For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”

but water baptism does not save .it follows salvation ,to use water baptism takes way the atonement /covering along with justification .but we should be baptized

 

[Religiot]

i said no certainly the bapt of the spirit bringing us into the body is a must by one spirit are we all baptized
Corinthians 12:13

“For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”

but water baptism does not save .it follows salvation ,to use water baptism takes way the atonement /covering along with justification .but we should be baptized

Why should I get baptized?

 

[jerry63935]

Why should I get baptized?

if your not saved you shouldnt

 

[Religiot]

if your not saved you shouldnt

Why should a saved person get baptized?

 

[jerry63935]

Why should a saved person get baptized?

its a commandment of Christ w follow his foot steps. its a outward testimony to the world your saved .its symbolic the old man is buried in the watery grave. the new man resurrects a new creation in Christ.. plz note symbolic .the Blood cleans us forgives us Christ gives us a new heart . he paid the price on the cross .not in a watery grave

 

[Religiot]

its a commandment of Christ w follow his foot steps. its a outward testimony to the world your saved .its symbolic the old man is buried in the watery grave. the new man resurrects a new creation in Christ.. plz note symbolic .the Blood cleans us forgives us Christ gives us a new heart . he paid the price on the cross .not in a watery grave

Yes, but why should I obey His commandments if I'm already saved?

 

[jerry63935]

Yes, but why should I obey His commandments if I'm already saved?

why ask why im not going to keep answering questions there one word that is the answer and i am done -LOVE

 

[Religiot]

why ask why im not going to keep answering questions there one word that is the answer and i am done -LOVE

But I already love Him...

How does that mean that I should have to get baptized?

 

[jerry63935]

But I already love Him...

How does that mean that I should have to get baptized?

good night no more time or desire for childish questions

 

[Religiot]

good night no more time or desire for childish questions

You are indeed right about my questions being childish, tho I like to call them basic: this line of questioning, if answered, will bring the respondent to necessary conclusions--you sensed this, and chose not to continue.

That is your prerogative.

Goodnight.

 

[ourforgiveness-com]

This is yet another controversial topic. Some say is a commandment/requirement, while others say is optional. What saith the scripture?

 

[ourforgiveness-com]

This is yet another controversial topic. Some say is a commandment/requirement, while others say is optional. What saith the scripture?

In Mark 16:16 it says:
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved."

Why don't we take a brief look at some of the examples from the book of Acts and see if they who believed (the Gospel) were baptized or if it was optional.

Acts 2:38 & 41
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
***to repent, you first need to believe (the Gospel).

Acts 2:41
"Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

In Acts 10:48
"And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days."
*** see Acts 10:44 "While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word."

Acts 8 :36-37
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
***Did you noticed how it was the Eunuch who asked the question about baptism?, that means Philip must of told him that baptism was necessary when he was preaching the word to to the Eunuch.

Acts 16:30-34
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
*** this is in reference to the jailer asking the question

31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
*** Paul and Silas replied Believe (in the Gospel/the Word, NOT in the name itself.) To believe is to repent, to obey, to be baptized, or else, how is the jailer going to be baptized if he does not repent and believe in everything that Jesus taught and preached.

32And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
*** the jailer receives the word (believes) before he is baptized. Now, here is where it gets bumpy for them that believe in infant baptism, because it says (and to all that were in his house), but did you notice the word (and) that means that Paul and Silas preached the Word to other members of the jailers house, and whoever they may be, they had to hear the Gospel and believe as well. unless we are to believe that an infant or a child can repent and believe? although we don't know who these member are, we do know that they had to believe.

33And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
*** Again, believing comes first before water baptism.

34And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
*** Both the jailer and his house believed and rejoiced in God. Can an infant do this?

And Finally,

Paul gets Baptized as well

Acts 9:16
16 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
*** Paul was first called Saul
17 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized."

And there are a few more other verses, but I think these would suffice. As you can see brothers, Baptism is part of your salvation, it is an error to say that it is a work. Please, do not challenge one verse of scripture with another verse; for scriptures are in perfect harmony. We need to study and interpret the verses correctly to avoid confusion.


-May the love of God, and Grace of our Lord, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

 

[WIP]

I have a question, if baptism is so required for salvation, then why is there no record of Jesus requiring baptism? Yes, He did tell His disciples to baptize but there is no record of Jesus actually requiring baptism of those that were saved after encountering Him.

For example...
In John 8:1-11, with the woman caught in adultery, after He forgave her, His only command was to "sin no more." Why did He not also tell her to get baptized?

In Mark 2:1-12, when He healed the paralytic and forgave his sins He did not also tell him to get baptized.

In Luke 17:1-19, when Jesus healed the ten lepers and one came back to thank Him and praise God, He told him to go his way for his faith made him well. He did not also require that he get baptized.

In Luke 8:43-38, when the woman touched His garment and was healed he said, "Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace." (ESV) He did not also require she get baptized.

In Mark 10:46-52, when Jesus healed Bartimaeus of his blindness He said, “Go your way; your faith has made you well.” (ESV) He did not also require that he get baptized.

I'm sure I can find others. I think it should be noted too that when Jesus used the phrase, "Your faith has made you well," I believe He was speaking about more than just the physical healing but actually speaks about spiritual healing or salvation.

 

[jerry63935]

baptism follows salvation it is NOT i repeat NOT required for salvation. for anyone to say ye must be baptized to be saved is wrong. the Blood atonement of Christ saves us .we are justified by the Blood . i love how this song is presented

 

[jerry63935]

. I think it should be noted too that when Jesus used the phrase, "Your faith has made you well," I believe He was speaking about more than just the physical healing but actually speaks about spiritual healing or salvation.

agreed

 

[WIP]

That is not to say that we should avoid baptism. Jesus lead by example and even He submitted to obedience of baptism. We are Christians and by definition we are followers of Christ. If He felt it was so important that He submitted, we too ought to submit.

 

[Religiot]

I have a question, if baptism is so required for salvation, then why is there no record of Jesus requiring baptism? Yes, He did tell His disciples to baptize but there is no record of Jesus actually requiring baptism of those that were saved after encountering Him.

For example...
In John 8:1-11, with the woman caught in adultery, after He forgave her, His only command was to "sin no more." Why did He not also tell her to get baptized?

In Mark 2:1-12, when He healed the paralytic and forgave his sins He did not also tell him to get baptized.

In Luke 17:1-19, when Jesus healed the ten lepers and one came back to thank Him and praise God, He told him to go his way for his faith made him well. He did not also require that he get baptized.

In Luke 8:43-38, when the woman touched His garment and was healed he said, "Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace." (ESV) He did not also require she get baptized.

In Mark 10:46-52, when Jesus healed Bartimaeus of his blindness He said, “Go your way; your faith has made you well.” (ESV) He did not also require that he get baptized.

I'm sure I can find others. I think it should be noted too that when Jesus used the phrase, "Your faith has made you well," I believe He was speaking about more than just the physical healing but actually speaks about spiritual healing or salvation.

A few things you've overlooked, dear brother:

Firstly, Jesus had His disciples baptize only those who were becoming themselves disciples of Christ.

Secondly, John baptized everyone, except for the lawyers and religious leaders:

"Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness. And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins; as it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight." --Luke 3:2-4

"Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, and were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins." --Matthew 3:5-6

"And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins." --Mark 1:5

"Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: when John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel. And as John fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh one after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose. Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent." --Acts 13:23-26

John was more than a prophet, yet the religious leaders still rejected him:

"And when the messengers of John were departed, he began to speak unto the people concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness for to see? A reed shaken with the wind? But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? Behold, they which are gorgeously apparelled, and live delicately, are in kings' courts. But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and much more than a prophet. This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he. And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him." --Luke 7:24-30

That same legalism, that caused many to reject such simple counsel from God, is still in effect today: --they parse words, like lawyers, and extrapolate meanings from writings that would astonish the very authors for how far removed the conclusions are from what was intended...

--It becomes us all to accept the simple counsels of God, and follow in the steps of He who showed the way:

"Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him." --Matthew 3:13-15

Regardless of what textual critics may say, the following are the words of the Lord, and they have been around long before the critics, during the critics, and will be long after the critics, and forevermore:

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." --Mark 16:16

Godspeed.

 

[WIP]

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." --Mark 16:16

And I believe these words. The problem as I see it is that people like to inject their own views on this text by saying a couple things.

First, they claim that the text defines the order in which these events must occur, in other words, believe first and then be baptized. The word "and" is a conjunction and only specifies that both events are to take place and does not specify the order of events. If my wife calls me at work and asks me to stop on my way home to pick up a loaf of bread and a pound of ground beef, she is not implying that I must pick them up in that order. Her only concern is that I get both.

Second, notice the second half of that verse only speaks to he that does not believe and says nothing about he that is not baptized.

I also have to question which baptism is really being spoken of. Is it John's baptism of water or Jesus' baptism with the Holy Spirit?