Beer and Alcohol

[Lyric's Dad]

I dont believe Christ drank any fermented substances.

Jesus told us He did. Here is where.

Matthew 11:17-19
" 'We played the flute for you,
and you did not dance;
we sang a dirge
and you did not mourn.' For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners." ' But wisdom is proved right by her actions."

Jesus tell us he drank and others called him a drunkard. Why would Jesus say this unless He was drinking fermented substances?

Because they wrongly accused jesus he ate but was never gluttonous he drank unfermented Wine but never got drunk! i say drinking is wrong in the days when the king james bible was being made there was no word for Grapejuice so they called it wine new wine for unfermented and old for fermented study this out for yourselves jesus said you dont put new wine into old bottles because when the new expands the old can not take the preashur of the fermentation process so it busts u have to study out each situation in the bible to see what it is talking about.

What did Jesus turn the water into? So you are saying that He gave others sinful drinks but did not partake? Nah, I think you are off base on this one.

 

[Soma-Sight]

What did Jesus turn the water into? So you are saying that He gave others sinful drinks but did not partake? Nah, I think you are off base on this one.

Hes saying the actual drink should be translated "unfermented grape juice" instead of "wine".

If the chracter of Christ is totally that of an enlightened and pure being..... than I agree that it is not feasible or reasonable to assume that his actions would lead Him to drinking alcohol for any cause....

If He never even had a lustful thought.... than I just dont see Him drinking Wine.....

Alcohol from my experience leads to the darkside of the force......

 

[antitox]

The bible says Jesus changed water to WINE, not unfermented grape juice. So many naysayers on this issue can't manage the thought that God made wine possible for man. Why would it state in Psalms 104 that God did?
If He didn't as some say, then why would He require a drink offering in the O.T.? God always requires a tithe or offering of what is given to us initially. Jesus drank wine because he knew his Father had given it to him.
God does not talk out of both sides of His mouth.

 

[StillSmallVoice]

the Bible talks of 2 Different Kinds of wine unfermented and fermented
the new wine the wine of the vine and good wine are all fresh off the vine because wine would not keep vary long and also about jesus turning water into wine its not talking about fermented but the freshest wine the first wine off the grape as it is called now grapejuice since they did not have that word back when the KJV was ritten they instead named it new or first or good wine

and i quote.

And Saith Unto Him Every Man doth set forth good wineand when men have well drunk(saying when they have had their fill) then that which is worse but thou hast kept the GOOD WINE until now I.E freshest off the vine


i do not belive that jesus would set a intoxicating drink before men and give them the potential to sin because he said avoid the vary appearance of evil

 

[Lyric's Dad]

the Bible talks of 2 Different Kinds of wine unfermented and fermented
the new wine the wine of the vine and good wine are all fresh off the vine because wine would not keep vary long and also about jesus turning water into wine its not talking about fermented but the freshest wine the first wine off the grape as it is called now grapejuice since they did not have that word back when the KJV was ritten they instead named it new or first or good wine

and i quote.

And Saith Unto Him Every Man doth set forth good wineand when men have well drunk(saying when they have had their fill) then that which is worse but thou hast kept the GOOD WINE until now I.E freshest off the vine


i do not belive that jesus would set a intoxicating drink before men and give them the potential to sin because he said avoid the vary appearance of evil

But it is so obvious He did. It says that most people bring out the cheap stuff when the party had had much to drink and could not tell the difference. Not this time, the WINE that Jesus gave was the best. What do you think them having drank too much to tell would mean????

Look, if you don't wish to drink any alcoholic drink, more power to you. But that does not mean you should step on the freedoms in Christ that another has with legalism. The Bible only says to not be drunken. If I have a beer or a glass of wine, I am not sinning. This teetotaling legalism is not within the confines of what Jesus came to do away with.

 

[KnarfKS]

Alcohol from my experience leads to the darkside of the force......

Too much Star wars obviously :-D

 

[antitox]

the Bible talks of 2 Different Kinds of wine unfermented and fermented
the new wine the wine of the vine and good wine are all fresh off the vine because wine would not keep vary long and also about jesus turning water into wine its not talking about fermented but the freshest wine the first wine off the grape as it is called now grapejuice since they did not have that word back when the KJV was ritten they instead named it new or first or good wine

and i quote.

And Saith Unto Him Every Man doth set forth good wineand when men have well drunk(saying when they have had their fill) then that which is worse but thou hast kept the GOOD WINE until now I.E freshest off the vine


i do not belive that jesus would set a intoxicating drink before men and give them the potential to sin because he said avoid the vary appearance of evil

The bible says WINE, not unfermented grape juice. People accused Jesus of being a winebibber because He drank real wine on occasion.
Stop trying to sterilize the bibllical account.

 

[Nikki]

Alcohol from my experience leads to the darkside of the force......

Too much Star wars obviously :-D

:

 

[Scott]

If He never even had a lustful thought.... than I just dont see Him drinking Wine.....

That didn't make any sense Soma.

 

[Soma-Sight]

That didn't make any sense Soma.

I am not sure if you know this, but alcohhol consumption usually leads to getting laid....

Christ "for obvious covenant reasons" led the perfect life and would never put Himself IN temptations way....

If He was a drinker the temptation to have "intercourse" would be much higher statistically and since God has machine like calculations going on in His head He would avoid alcohol due to this reason...

 

[cubedbee]

That didn't make any sense Soma.

I am not sure if you know this, but alcohhol consumption usually leads to getting laid....

Funny, I've consumed thousands of alcoholic beverages, yet I've never 'gotten laid'

Christ "for obvious covenant reasons" led the perfect life and would never put Himself IN temptations way....

Christ would never allow his alcohol consumption to cause him to sinfully have extra-marital sex? No, of course he wouldn't. Neither would I. However, I don't abstain from alcohol, and neither did Christ.

If He was a drinker the temptation to have "intercourse" would be much higher statistically and since God has machine like calculations going on in His head He would avoid alcohol due to this reason...

That's the most absurd thing I ever heard. Sure, statistically speaking, alcohol increases the likelihood of intercourse. However, statistically speaking, being in the presense of a woman increases the likelihood far far more. So, if Jesus really was doing these machine-like calculations in his head to minimize the possibility of temptation, he would never have allowed women to be included amongst his followers nor would he visit women in their homes. However, he does both these things. He also drank alcohol. We, just as Jesus, are able to control ourselves after imbibing alcohol, and are able to sinlessly enjoy the beverage God has created for us. Jesus's perfect life didn't involve remaining free from temptation--quite the contrary, Jesus was tempted just like every man, but he was able to perfectly resist those temptations.

 

[Soma-Sight]

That's the most absurd thing I ever heard. Sure, statistically speaking, alcohol increases the likelihood of intercourse. However, statistically speaking, being in the presense of a woman increases the likelihood far far more. So, if Jesus really was doing these machine-like calculations in his head to minimize the possibility of temptation, he would never have allowed women to be included amongst his followers nor would he visit women in their homes

Actually Jesus had only MEN disciples for that very reason!!!

Jesus drinking wine is like the Buddha smoking grass.... it just aint right.

So I guess it is OK to smoke grass and do LSD right? There is no real difference and they all come from plant sources...

Some hippys even claim that the annointing oil that Christ used contained cannabis oil...

So maybe drugs arent all that bad....

 

[Scott]

I am not sure if you know this, but alcohhol consumption usually leads to getting laid....

I'm not sure if your language here is appropriate but I nearly doubled over laughing when I read your post (I'm not sure if that was your intent). Your ananlogy is like saying all people who drive cars purposely run over pedestrians.

Now for starters, let me make it clear that I completely respect anyone who chooses not to drink wine. But when you jump into the subject and try to argue what the Bible means by wine then you need to forget what people are telling you and study the subject. First of all, they couldn't stop fermentation back then. That is proven in Matthew 27:48, vinegar is the result of oxidation or bacteria spoilage of the alcohol in wine resulting in wine vinegar. I know quite a bit about winemaking and the chemical process that occur after the grapes are pressed which is important information to keep in mind. The second point, Paul tells us not to get drunk on wine in Ephesians 5:18. That is another fact that tells us wine was wine. Also in 1 Timothy 5:23, Paul talks about drinking wine in addition to water because wine in moderation is actually good for your body.

Your assumptions about Jesus only reveals that you cast doubt on His self control by saying He didn't drink wine. He was the model of self-control. He fasted for 40 days and 40 nights, what does that tell you about His self-control. That certainly doesn't mean He was a victim of over-indulgance or gluttony.

Furthermore, water was not always plentiful and when they were able to have it, it wasn't always clean. Wine, was a staple in their diet.

Anyway, I respect the fact that you don't drink wine. That's great. But atleast get the factual evidence correct about wine in the Bible because it will certainly effect your credibility when you can't back up what you say. I'm certainly not here to condemn or support, but only to say that facts are facts.

 

[Lyric's Dad]

Christ "for obvious covenant reasons" led the perfect life and would never put Himself IN temptations way....
...

Where again did He go for fourty days after His baptism and what was the purpose????

 

[Lyric's Dad]

Actually Jesus had only MEN disciples for that very reason!!!

That is one of, if not THE most asinine statements I have seen in this forum

Jesus drinking wine is like the Buddha smoking grass.... it just aint right.

So I guess it is OK to smoke grass and do LSD right?....

Sure it is if you are a false demon god like buddha

 

[Soma-Sight]

Your assumptions about Jesus only reveals that you cast doubt on His self control by saying He didn't drink wine. He was the model of self-control. He fasted for 40 days and 40 nights, what does that tell you about His self-control. That certainly doesn't mean He was a victim of over-indulgance or gluttony.

Thats a very good point actually...

For the record I used to work in the Napa Valley at many of those 5 star restaraunts. Now that was some expensive wine! I guess I just dont believe the "fruits" of wine and alcohol consumption are of the Spirit. But as you said... Jesus had obvious self control and would not of just "jumped into the sack" due to a few too many shots.....