Beer and Alcohol

[Soma-Sight]

Who referred to Jesus as a "winebibber"? (Matt. 11:17-19) It was Jesus' enemies, the Pharisees. Their characterization of Christ as a "winebibber" should be automatically taken as suspect given their intense antagonism toward him. The Pharisees also called Jesus "gluttonous". Do we take this as true? Of course not! Christ would not have been the perfect sacrifice he was meant to be if he was either a winebibber or a glutton. These descriptions of Christ were meant to be slanderous, not accurate. As such, they communicate nothing about the true nature of Jesus' conduct. Therefore, these accusations cannot be made to serve as proof that Jesus drank alcohol.

EXACTLY

 

[Scott]

I agree that the comments made about Jesus were slanderous, but would like to remind you all again that wine was still wine back then. As I mentioned in an earlier post, they could not stop fermentation.

Is purposely poisoning yourself, then, however mildly, by drinking alcohol glorifying to God?

So drinking wine is purposely poisoning yourself!? That is quite an accusation when so many in God's Word drank wine.

 

[aiki]

Hey! How's it goin'?

KnarfKS:

How does watching a movie, going for a walk, listening to music, socializing with people. All of these things can be bad if they are not used properly.

None of these things are inherently chemically addictive. None of these things erode self-control in the way alcohol does. None of these things have the toxic quality of alcohol. Apples and oranges here, I think.

The US is just about the only country who's Christians have a problem with alcohol use in moderation. The others know that it is just a drink that in moderation is something to be enjoyed. Do we have a problem with caffinated beverages? Caffeine is as addictive as alcohol. Who here can't function without the morning cup?

Well, I don't drink coffee. Gives me a headache. Don't like the taste much, either.

I'm sure that there are Christians out there who sip wine or knock back a cold one without any significant negative impact on their walk with the Lord. BUt this happens in spite of the risks associated with alcohol use, not because alcohol is harmless. Europe, generally, has just about the highest rate of alcoholism in the world. This is not surprising given the strong cultural inclination of European countries toward alcohol use.

One beer to most people will not hinder self control in any way, unless they are already addicted, then that is another problem from the start. If you have a problem with self control and alcohol then you shouldn't drink. The self control issues come before the alcohol effects it.

How does one find out if one has a problem with alcohol and self-control? It seems to me that, to discover if you have an addictive personality toward alcohol, you'd have to try alcohol and become addicted. But getting drunk even once, let alone addicted, is sin. So, you would have a person sin in order to avoid sinning? That doesn't make good sense to me. Isn't it more prudent, more wise, simply to avoid alcohol consumption and its related risks altogether? I think so.

Kind of true, the body can handle roughly one drink per hour for the average person and have absolutely no ill effects, except maybe a slight diuretic effect (you pee more). Driinking heavily over a long period of time will affect these other organs like the liver and brain as well as nutritional imbalances with niacin and many others. But in small amounts it doesn't damage anything.

Fascinating. I can drink a litre of water, or lemonade, or tea, or milk in a matter of minutes and not worry one bit about exceeding my body's toxin tolerance limit. I wonder how many people who drink alcohol regularly take pains to adhere to the one drink per hour limit you've described? None that I know of -- and I know quite a few.

I have even met european Christians who are strong in their faith and had beer regularly at bible study.
There are many things we do that are connected to sinful practices. The act of dancing or music can also be linked to these establishments too. But we don't have a problem if we use those two responsibly. They are not necessary either.

My point wasn't about responsible use, but about glorifying God and how that is accomplished through the use of a substance commonly associated in our culture with very ungodly things. The same thing applies to dancing and music. Does one's dancing and music glorify God? If not, then they should be set aside -- especially if one's choices in these areas have a clear connection to what is evil.

Not really compared to most things. Psychologically it may be addictive for some people. But physically it actually takes several years to make your body addicted to it.

I have read rather different facts from what you say above. Please provide some reference for your claims.

Alcohol is more chemically addictive than bread, or butter, than pizza, or chicken, or jam, or any of a very large variety of things one may eat and drink. Really I think, compared to most things, it is a good deal more addictive. I don't see the Bible warning me off steak, or pancakes, or hot chocolate. BUt kings, priests, and prophets are all commanded in scripture to abstain entirely from alcohol. Why is that, do you think?

I enjoy a beer every once in a while because I like the taste. I know there are few people who do, but I'm one of them. I enjoy wine with a meal, but this rarely happens. I would say that I only drink maybe 2 or 3 drinks a month and usually not at the same time. I usually don't even keep it around the apartment. If others have a problem with drinking, then they shouldn't and they should let me know if I'm around them so I won't. I won't drink if there is a remote possibility that they might stumble. It has never been a problem of causing others to stumble thus far and I take it seriously enough that it won't ever become a problem.

Hey, that's great! I'm glad you take such pains to avoid offense through your drinking. I wish more "sipping saints" would be as temperate in their use of alcohol as are you.

In Christ, Aiki.

 

[KnarfKS]

Quote:
How does watching a movie, going for a walk, listening to music, socializing with people. All of these things can be bad if they are not used properly.

None of these things are inherently chemically addictive. None of these things erode self-control in the way alcohol does. None of these things have the toxic quality of alcohol. Apples and oranges here, I think.

My point was that they may have spiritually toxic qualities, thats how it is apples to apples.

How does one find out if one has a problem with alcohol and self-control? It seems to me that, to discover if you have an addictive personality toward alcohol, you'd have to try alcohol and become addicted. But getting drunk even once, let alone addicted, is sin. So, you would have a person sin in order to avoid sinning? That doesn't make good sense to me. Isn't it more prudent, more wise, simply to avoid alcohol consumption and its related risks altogether? I think so.

How are we sinning to avoid sin? I'm not advocating people go out and get drunk and people don't get chemically addicted to alcohol even within their first few times of drinking. I have no idea where you get the idea that it takes a very short time to become chemically dependant on alcohol, but it is wrong. I still say we should also be weary of avoiding risks of being legalistic about rules and regulations that the bible is not clear on. Drunkeness and addiction are bad, but a single drink in the hands of a mature Christian isn't a sin.

Fascinating. I can drink a litre of water, or lemonade, or tea, or milk in a matter of minutes and not worry one bit about exceeding my body's toxin tolerance limit. I wonder how many people who drink alcohol regularly take pains to adhere to the one drink per hour limit you've described? None that I know of -- and I know quite a few.

I'm sorry that the people you know don't have the self control to limit themselves. Actually I would watch out with milk, it may cause problems because of the enzyme that digest lactose is limited, thats why it is impossible to drink a gallon in one hour. Or the water if taken in very large quantities can actually cause problems because it throws off the electrolyte imbalances and can actually cause brain swelling. Or the lemonade that contains large amounts of sugar that can eventually lead to the formation of Type II diabetes. Or the Tea which contains caffeine and also tannins that strip the bones of calcium. See all these things taken to the extreme have adverse reactions, even water. That is if used improperly.

Alcohol is more chemically addictive than bread, or butter, than pizza, or chicken, or jam, or any of a very large variety of things one may eat and drink.

Tell that to the extrodinarily obese person who is addicted to food in general. It is as much an addiction as alcohol.

My point wasn't about responsible use, but about glorifying God and how that is accomplished through the use of a substance commonly associated in our culture with very ungodly things.

Deut. 14:26 as someone else stated earlier is actually associated with feasting and giving tithes to God. Wouldn't that be giving glory to God. Are we throwing the baby out with the bath water? Are we assuming that anything connected with evil is automatically worthless and should be avoided. Sex is associated with evil most of the time actually except when it is actually allowed but does anyone here completely abstain within the bounds of marriage??? Is there a right way to partake in alcohol? I think yes, and of course there is a wrong way also.

"sipping saints"

Thanks for the nickname, I think I'll refrain from telling you yours. :-D

 

[Sean]

As a Baptist, it's a rule somewhere that we can't drink. I personally don't believe in the rule, but I don't drink for other reasons (one being that I'm a minor 8-) ). I remember that in 6th grade our sunday school teacher kinda co-erced us into vowing not to drink. I wish I hadn't of, just so I could say that I don't drink just for the heck of it. But hey, a vow's a vow.

Wow... I kinda ran around on that one.

 

[cubedbee]

I'm drinking a beer as we speak. One beer. For the taste. It's absolutely amazing ---- the Westmalle Trappist Tripel. Brewed by monks---Christians, just like me, who know that God created beer (well the yeast that enables beer to be made) to be enjoyed by his creation.

 

[Asimov]

oh.......dear.....

cubedbee, you're drinking a beer???? :o

I can't believe it, I wont believe it!!

 

[aiki]

KnarfKS:

Hello.

My point was that they may have spiritually toxic qualities, thats how it is apples to apples.

Well, certainly I can agree with that.

How are we sinning to avoid sin? I'm not advocating people go out and get drunk and people don't get chemically addicted to alcohol even within their first few times of drinking. I have no idea where you get the idea that it takes a very short time to become chemically dependant on alcohol, but it is wrong.

I know people personally who became addicted after their first round of alcohol. This is what they claim, at least. Whether or not they were truly physiologically addicted at the time they claimed to be is not something I'm able to establish. I'm quite willing to concede to your claims about the raw chemistry and biology of addiction to alcohol, but what you claim doesn't really help much those who believe they were addicted to alcohol the first time they tried it.

I still say we should also be weary of avoiding risks of being legalistic about rules and regulations that the bible is not clear on. Drunkeness and addiction are bad, but a single drink in the hands of a mature Christian isn't a sin.

I don't think I said that it was. I only went so far as to say that, based on what I see in scripture and because of the nature of alcohol itself, it isn't a good idea to drink it. I agree with the idea of avoiding legalism. I also think that the opposite, liberal extreme is equally to be avoided. I heard a very wise man say that legalism is law without love and liberalism is grace without love. I have had newly-saved friends who drank beer with a meal, or just to cool off on a hot day. They did this when I was around. I never made an issue of it because I recognized that they were newborns spiritually and that I could trust God to change them when and how He saw fit. My job was to love these guys as God loved them, not jump down their throats everytime they did something with which I didn't agree. Eventually, they asked me why I didn't drink. I told them my reasons and then left it between them and God as to what they would choose to do. Now, if they had been taking the Lord's name in vain, or watching a porno movie in my presence I'd have lovingly, but very plainly, told them to stop. But, as you say, KnarfKS, the alcohol issue doesn't appear to be quite as cut-and-dried as are these other kinds of behaviour. So, in the interests of being loving, I flex a little.

I'm sorry that the people you know don't have the self control to limit themselves. Actually I would watch out with milk, it may cause problems because of the enzyme that digest lactose is limited, thats why it is impossible to drink a gallon in one hour. Or the water if taken in very large quantities can actually cause problems because it throws off the electrolyte imbalances and can actually cause brain swelling. Or the lemonade that contains large amounts of sugar that can eventually lead to the formation of Type II diabetes. Or the Tea which contains caffeine and also tannins that strip the bones of calcium. See all these things taken to the extreme have adverse reactions, even water. That is if used improperly.

Actually, if you are exercising vigorously and sweating heavily, consuming large quantities of water is perfectly safe -- but this is beside the point, isn't it? Why is it that I've never heard of someone suffering brain swelling from excessive water intake, but I've known personally hundreds of people who have gotten so drunk they vomited and/or passed out? Why is this true of drinking tea, milk, and lemonade, too? I know of no one who has been diagnosed as having diabetes specifically because of drinking lemonade. But I know of several people who have been medically diagnosed with scirossis (sp?) of the liver as a direct result of drinking too much alcohol.

Tell that to the extrodinarily obese person who is addicted to food in general. It is as much an addiction as alcohol.

Morbidly obese people who are addicted to food are so, not because food itself is highly addictive and toxic, but for a variety of other reasons that manifest themselves in the form of a food addiction. This is why bread, jam, butter, etc, may be sold to minors. I've never seen a 16 year old asked for ID when buying a box of cereal. Have you?

Are we throwing the baby out with the bath water? Are we assuming that anything connected with evil is automatically worthless and should be avoided. Sex is associated with evil most of the time actually except when it is actually allowed but does anyone here completely abstain within the bounds of marriage??? Is there a right way to partake in alcohol? I think yes, and of course there is a wrong way also.

In this respect, as far as alcohol is concerned, you and I are of differing opinions. That's okay with me. I can agree to disagree. I'm not going to go away thinking evil of you -- much. :wink: :-D

Thanks for the nickname, I think I'll refrain from telling you yours.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this sounds like you're getting bent out of shape about my perspective. It wasn't a slam when I called you a "sipping saint", so don't get your hackles up.

Cubed bee:

I just wanted to say that your last post just oozes God's love. It was so careful to avoid offense or stumbling to any other Christian who might feel sensitively about what you flaunted in it. Way to show the love of Christ! (NOT! :-? :roll: )

In Christ, Aiki.

 

[davrob]

KnarfKS:

Hello.

My point was that they may have spiritually toxic qualities, thats how it is apples to apples.

Well, certainly I can agree with that.

[quote:7b93a]How are we sinning to avoid sin? I'm not advocating people go out and get drunk and people don't get chemically addicted to alcohol even within their first few times of drinking. I have no idea where you get the idea that it takes a very short time to become chemically dependant on alcohol, but it is wrong.

I know people personally who became addicted after their first round of alcohol. This is what they claim, at least. Whether or not they were truly physiologically addicted at the time they claimed to be is not something I'm able to establish. I'm quite willing to concede to your claims about the raw chemistry and biology of addiction to alcohol, but what you claim doesn't really help much those who believe they were addicted to alcohol the first time they tried it.

I still say we should also be weary of avoiding risks of being legalistic about rules and regulations that the bible is not clear on. Drunkeness and addiction are bad, but a single drink in the hands of a mature Christian isn't a sin.

I don't think I said that it was. I only went so far as to say that, based on what I see in scripture and because of the nature of alcohol itself, it isn't a good idea to drink it. I agree with the idea of avoiding legalism. I also think that the opposite, liberal extreme is equally to be avoided. I heard a very wise man say that legalism is law without love and liberalism is grace without love. I have had newly-saved friends who drank beer with a meal, or just to cool off on a hot day. They did this when I was around. I never made an issue of it because I recognized that they were newborns spiritually and that I could trust God to change them when and how He saw fit. My job was to love these guys as God loved them, not jump down their throats everytime they did something with which I didn't agree. Eventually, they asked me why I didn't drink. I told them my reasons and then left it between them and God as to what they would choose to do. Now, if they had been taking the Lord's name in vain, or watching a porno movie in my presence I'd have lovingly, but very plainly, told them to stop. But, as you say, KnarfKS, the alcohol issue doesn't appear to be quite as cut-and-dried as are these other kinds of behaviour. So, in the interests of being loving, I flex a little.

I'm sorry that the people you know don't have the self control to limit themselves. Actually I would watch out with milk, it may cause problems because of the enzyme that digest lactose is limited, thats why it is impossible to drink a gallon in one hour. Or the water if taken in very large quantities can actually cause problems because it throws off the electrolyte imbalances and can actually cause brain swelling. Or the lemonade that contains large amounts of sugar that can eventually lead to the formation of Type II diabetes. Or the Tea which contains caffeine and also tannins that strip the bones of calcium. See all these things taken to the extreme have adverse reactions, even water. That is if used improperly.

Actually, if you are exercising vigorously and sweating heavily, consuming large quantities of water is perfectly safe -- but this is beside the point, isn't it? Why is it that I've never heard of someone suffering brain swelling from excessive water intake, but I've known personally hundreds of people who have gotten so drunk they vomited and/or passed out? Why is this true of drinking tea, milk, and lemonade, too? I know of no one who has been diagnosed as having diabetes specifically because of drinking lemonade. But I know of several people who have been medically diagnosed with scirossis (sp?) of the liver as a direct result of drinking too much alcohol.

Tell that to the extrodinarily obese person who is addicted to food in general. It is as much an addiction as alcohol.

Morbidly obese people who are addicted to food are so, not because food itself is highly addictive and toxic, but for a variety of other reasons that manifest themselves in the form of a food addiction. This is why bread, jam, butter, etc, may be sold to minors. I've never seen a 16 year old asked for ID when buying a box of cereal. Have you?

Are we throwing the baby out with the bath water? Are we assuming that anything connected with evil is automatically worthless and should be avoided. Sex is associated with evil most of the time actually except when it is actually allowed but does anyone here completely abstain within the bounds of marriage??? Is there a right way to partake in alcohol? I think yes, and of course there is a wrong way also.

In this respect, as far as alcohol is concerned, you and I are of differing opinions. That's okay with me. I can agree to disagree. I'm not going to go away thinking evil of you -- much. :wink: :-D

Thanks for the nickname, I think I'll refrain from telling you yours.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this sounds like you're getting bent out of shape about my perspective. It wasn't a slam when I called you a "sipping saint", so don't get your hackles up.

Cubed bee:

I just wanted to say that your last post just oozes God's love. It was so careful to avoid offense or stumbling to any other Christian who might feel sensitively about what you flaunted in it. Way to show the love of Christ! (NOT! :-? :roll: )

In Christ, Aiki.[/quote:7b93a]

I don't agree with everything you've said but when I read this post I thought to myself, "I wish more people would disagree in this fashion."

 

[KnarfKS]

Actually, if you are exercising vigorously and sweating heavily, consuming large quantities of water is perfectly safe -- but this is beside the point, isn't it? Why is it that I've never heard of someone suffering brain swelling from excessive water intake, but I've known personally hundreds of people who have gotten so drunk they vomited and/or passed out? Why is this true of drinking tea, milk, and lemonade, too? I know of no one who has been diagnosed as having diabetes specifically because of drinking lemonade. But I know of several people who have been medically diagnosed with scirossis (sp?) of the liver as a direct result of drinking too much alcohol.

I said that it is possible to drink enough water to become toxic. I could go into the osmotic forces of the electrolytes and the blood brain barrier, but I think I'll hold off on that. Type II Diabetes can occur because of excessive amounts of sugar or at least be brought on when predisposing factors are also present. If you are interested in the physiology of these two previous statements I would ask you to look them up in a physiology book. I am in nursing school so I have had quite a bit of education on these topics thats how I know. But my point is, people should not abuse food, or anything else, this includes alcohol. If you are not responsible with things they can become toxic, some things are more easily physiologically dangerous like alcohol and drugs, but food and other things we do on a daily basis if taken to an extreme can have a severe effect on our life too.
BTW I have met people diagnosed with type II diabetes that had a direct correlation with over consumption of sugar. He drank almost 4 liters of soda a day. Not good for the health at all.

But, as you say, KnarfKS, the alcohol issue doesn't appear to be quite as cut-and-dried as are these other kinds of behaviour. So, in the interests of being loving, I flex a little.

Thank you, I understand your concern, and I do take the use of alcohol seriously. If I ever thought at any point I was causing a problem I would immediately stop. But as of yet, there has been absolutely no problem for me personally or the people who I drink around.

Morbidly obese people who are addicted to food are so, not because food itself is highly addictive and toxic, but for a variety of other reasons that manifest themselves in the form of a food addiction.

I like this point, but it is also very true of alcoholism too. Alcoholics don't start drinking because they are immediately addicted physiologically. They drink because there is an underlying problem psychologically or spiritually. Then of course the physiological addiction comes later. But I would say from the recovering alcoholics I have been around the bigger problem was not the physiological addiction, but the mental problems that origionally perpetuated the problem.

so don't get your hackles up

What are hackles?

 

[Steve]

I do not drink. I don't like the taste of it, so why drink something I don't even like?

Far as others are concerned, I have no prob with anyone taking a drink. I was raised around alcohol. But there is NOTHING worse than having a drunk all up in my face.

Here where I work, the clients are all drug users, (or dealers), and that includes alcohol. I have a young guy now who has red spots on his liver, and keeps right on drinking. Then it becomes a prob. Their justification is that alcohol is 'legal.' So, they stop using Heroin and start drinking....'It's LEGAL!!!!' They don't think marijuana is a drug, either: 'They give it in the Hospital, don't they?' Or, 'It's a plant, right from the earth.' So, they think it's not correct to call someone 'addicted' who uses marijuana habitually.

 

[Scott]

They don't think marijuana is a drug, either

Besides being illegal my biggest problem with these people (potheads) is they are unmotivated and scatterbrained. It amazes me how people get away with it in the workplace these days without being fired. I think a lot of it is because the higher-ups use it too so theyend up just looking the other way.

 

[LottomagicZ4941A]

It is easier for me to give up beer then pop.

Totally craving a pop.

And I do drink pop at times to the point of glutony.

Makes my knees hurt and sometimes messes up the sleep from the caffene(sp). Actually have a 2 liter of caffeene(sp) free but don't want to open a whole two liter.

 

[KrissyLen]

I think I've polled this before, but I can't find it. :-?

What are your thoughts on this? I ask because there are times we go out to eat and I enjoy a mixed drink. Also, the doctors have told my mom AND me to drink a glass of wine once a day since my mom has heart disease. The only problem with that is that I think wine is DISGUSTING. YUCK!

The strange thing is that you get the same benefits of a glass of wine out of 100% grape juice, red or white. If you don't like wine, you don't have to drink it.

Personally though, alcoholic beverages are banned from my house.

 

[reznwerks]

I think I've polled this before, but I can't find it. :-?

What are your thoughts on this? I ask because there are times we go out to eat and I enjoy a mixed drink. Also, the doctors have told my mom AND me to drink a glass of wine once a day since my mom has heart disease. The only problem with that is that I think wine is DISGUSTING. YUCK!

The strange thing is that you get the same benefits of a glass of wine out of 100% grape juice, red or white. If you don't like wine, you don't have to drink it.
That may not be entirely true. Autopsies done on alchoholics show typically that their arteries are squeaky clean. This is not an endorsement of binging but the evidence is pretty clear that those that have some alchohol on a regular basis whether it be wine or liquer fare better health wise.

Personally though, alcoholic beverages are banned from my house.

 

[JM]

I drink beer, gin (I always have a bottle of Beef Eaters in the house), wine, etc...I don't see anything wrong with a Christian doing such things as long as it is done in a mature fashion, and by that I mean not drinking at the bar or throwing it in the face of weaker Christians who can't handle it.

peace

 

[Vic C.]

To say drinking alcohol at all is a sin, is clearly an overboard statement. We Know for a fact that Jesus drank wine....

Upon further research and reflection I believe that knowingly drinking alcohol apart from any medical reason (I dont know of any) is a sin.

I dont believe Christ drank any fermented substances.

Research all you wat, I don't know where you come up with some of the things you say.

Traditionally, even before Jesus' time, wine was diluted... 3 parts wine to one part water, if my Jewish sources at work are correct. Now... why dilute a drink that was unfermented? I will concede that fermentation in those days was not as sophisticated as today, but it still did fermented.

 

[Tofuy]

American "beer" such as Bud, Miller, Coors is not real beer---it is watered-down flavorless additive-filled nastiness. If all you've tried is nationally produced American beer, then I don't blame you for hating the taste ---I hate it too. Real beer has an amazing range of tastes. From nutty brown ales, to chocolaty stouts, to fruity Belgians, to bitter IPAs, to caramely doppelbocks---there's a beer for any taste.

YES! i hardly ever use the word "sin" but if ever there was one, it would be using crap like bud, miller, coors etc to represent all beers.

i've heard that 60-70% of deaths in the middle ages are as a result of "accident". this comes from surviving court and local government records. in the cities, people drank just as much alcohol, if not more, than they drank water. the proccess of fermentation would destroy the bugs in the water which would otherwise make people sick. so drinking alcohol might've been a much nicer alternative to some diseases. history teachers never spend enough time on the interesting stuff like that. :-?

 

[reznwerks]

wine

Jesus tell us he drank and others called him a drunkard. Why would Jesus say this unless He was drinking fermented substances?

There are a couple of arguments....

1. That the greek tranlation of the "wine" refers to unfermented.
There is no arguement. They knew what wine was and how to make it.

2. Looking at this text it says he DRANK a non specific substance and was PERCIEVED to be a drunkard.
Why is it that when other subjects are of question in the bible you are more than willing to imply suggestion, interpretation, definition etc to make the event or meaning confirm to your belief but when something as simple as he drank and appeared drunk , somehow you don't want to believe it?

If you look at it this way Jesus could have been drinking Welches grape juice and was ACCUSED by others of being a drunk.
Look the first miracle that Jesus is credited with is making wine at the wedding feast. Who do you suppose confirmed that it was wine? Do you think maybe it was those who were doing the drinking? Why don't you read the event again and you will see that not only did Jesus make wine but he made VERY GOOD WINE. You see it was customery to serve the good wine at the beginning of a feast then substitute the so so stuff later so as not to give away too much. Here we see Jesus being accused of giving the good stuff right to the end. Its all there just read it.

I dont believe He drank fermented stuff and thats what I believe. You can believe what you want.
Believe whatever you want but your bible implies something else. Why would it bother so much anyway?

I think drinking is Sin in any amount.
Why is that? Is it because alchohol changes ones behavior? Caffeine does the same as well as sugar over the counter meds , prescription meds, miss a meal and see how some people act, etc etc etc.

 

[StillSmallVoice]

I dont believe Christ drank any fermented substances.

Jesus told us He did. Here is where.

Matthew 11:17-19
" 'We played the flute for you,
and you did not dance;
we sang a dirge
and you did not mourn.' For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners." ' But wisdom is proved right by her actions."

Jesus tell us he drank and others called him a drunkard. Why would Jesus say this unless He was drinking fermented substances?

Because they wrongly accused jesus he ate but was never gluttonous he drank unfermented Wine but never got drunk! i say drinking is wrong in the days when the king james bible was being made there was no word for Grapejuice so they called it wine new wine for unfermented and old for fermented study this out for yourselves jesus said you dont put new wine into old bottles because when the new expands the old can not take the preashur of the fermentation process so it busts u have to study out each situation in the bible to see what it is talking about.