Being Baptized Again

[Solo]

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matthew 28:19-20

Why did Jesus command His disciples to TEACH all nations prior to BAPTIZING them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost? When Jesus commanded His disciples to TEACH, did He not command them to TEACH all nations to OBSERVE ALL THINGS whatsoever He had COMMANDED them?

Are infants able to be taught to OBSERVE ALL THINGS whatsoever Jesus COMMANDED them?
Are the aborted unborn going to hell because they were not baptized?
Is infant baptism commanded in the Scriptures, or is infant baptism a tradition of men?

When one can understand that water baptism is the symbol of what occurs spiritually upon the belief of one into the Kingdom of God, then one has rightly divided the Word of truth; until then there remains more study. John the Baptist baptized with water the baptism of repentence, but Jesus Christ baptized with the Holy Spirit and fire those who believed unto Salvation. It really cannot be stated any more clear than this.

 

[Guest]

I took some asprin yesterday for a headache.

Question - did I take the asprin to GET a headache or beacuse I already HAD a headache?

One doest not get baptized for the remission of sins, but rather because one has already had remission of sins through belief in Jesus Christ.

I see infant dedication as 'membership' in to the local church body - a member of XYZ church on the corner of 5th and main. Baptism signfies the public testimony of the inner reality of salvation - and is the public declaration of membership into the Body of Christ.

 

[Fnerb]

I believe that all infants are born in innocence and that they have a special relationship with God. I reject infant damnation because of this.

Since when are infants innocent?

Psalm 51:5
Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

And if infants truly were sinless, they wouldn't die.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death...

Are all that are baptized saved and going to heaven? Why or why not?

Is baptism a guaranteed ticket to heaven? Certainly not. We cannot see in to the hearts of the wicked Solo. A person that comes to you and asks to be baptized may be no more saved that someone who doesn't. This however could easily lead into a OSAS debate though, so we must be careful...

Water baptism is different...Did you folks know that the Pharasses practiced water baptism? Many don't know this...This is why the pharisees where so upset with John the Baptist...This is also why the saducess did not care to much about John the Baptist ministry They did not believe in baptism...Anyway, where any of those that the Pharisees baptized saved? NO...

It's not the water that is the power of baptism, it's the Word.

As I posted earlier (and as Veritas has posted) I believe that there are explicit promises tied to baptism, and that by being baptized, we are clothed with Christ's righteousness.

How great will it be when we all meet in heaven at our Savior's feet...all will be known! :angel:

 

[handy]

Fnerb,

I find the translations of Psalm 51:5 to give very different connotations. Most translations state:

Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity...

Which is different than saying that one is sinful at birth.

However, I believe that is beside the point. For even if we are 'born in sin', this does not make one a sinner, until one actually sins. Babies are incapable of sinning, even if they are born with a sin nature. Which is why if an infant dies, they go to heaven, because they have no sin against them.

As for whether or not an infant would physically not die because of a lack of sin, all I can say is what sins have chickens committed, or dogs, or cats, or goldfish? I've had each and they die.

The wages of sin is death, for it is by sin that death entered into this world. And because of sin, we also die spiritually. Which is why Paul said, "I was once alive apart from the Law, but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died."

If we are truly 'sinful at birth' as the NIV rather unfortunately translates that verse, then at what time was Paul ever alive?

 

[jgredline]

It's not the water that is the power of baptism, it's the Word.

As I posted earlier (and as Veritas has posted) I believe that there are explicit promises tied to baptism, and that by being baptized, we are clothed with Christ's righteousness.

How great will it be when we all meet in heaven at our Savior's feet...all will be known! :angel:

Are you speaking of water baptism or spiritual baptism???
When you say ''word'' what do u mean??


Solo and Destiny, Thank you
Alone, I also agree with your post...I have stated something similar some time ago...

 

[Solo]

Are all that are baptized saved and going to heaven? Why or why not?

Is baptism a guaranteed ticket to heaven? Certainly not. We cannot see in to the hearts of the wicked Solo. A person that comes to you and asks to be baptized may be no more saved that someone who doesn't. This however could easily lead into a OSAS debate though, so we must be careful...

Then why get baptized if it has nothing to do with being a member of the body of Christ. Since you cannot see into the hearts of the wicked, why are you baptizing them when they are infants? Why would one baptize an infant if it has nothing to do with Salvation? Tradition of men!

 

[Veritas]

First of all, I do want to say that I enjoy talking with everyone about baptism. If I'm wrong about infants being baptized, I would like to know, and I would like to know from scripture. And just so everyone knows, I certainly don't see anything wrong with adults being baptized either.

You make a good observation, but I don't think I can accept the example of John's being filled with the Spirit in utero as proof that infants should be baptized. While we know that John was filled with the Spirit from the womb, we only know this because it's recorded in God's Word. Most of us will have no way of knowing if an infant is filled with the Spirit or not.

That's fine, I do understand that we wouldn't really know. But I don't think we really know if anyone is truely filled with the Spirit. I think we can be something like 97% sure because we do see fruits (Matthew 7:17-20), however, it is God who looks into the hearts of man and only He truely knows. (1 Samuel 16:7 )

nor is there any references to any being saved without believin with the heart and confession with the mouth.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:10

Solo, yes I agree, but what about people who cannot speak, like the physically disabled or mentally disabled. What about when we are asleep or unconscious? Do we lose faith because we cannot make a confession with our mouth? I don't think so. I'm sure you would agree with me that our spirit has a spirit mouth that can confess.

Solo and handy, I know you may not accept the faith of John in the womb, but there are other places in scripture that attest to infants having faith:

From the lips of children and infants
you have ordained praise Psalm 8:2

You made me trust in You even at my mothers breast Psalm 22:9

I believe that all infants are born in innocence and that they have a special relationship with God. I reject infant damnation because of this. To me the clearest scripture to look at regarding this is Romans 7:9

I do disagree with this. I think babies can either have faith or not have faith even if we can't tell. I will look into Romans 7:9 however and prayfully consider what it means.

Baptism signfies the public testimony of the inner reality of salvation - and is the public declaration of membership into the Body of Christ.

Does scripture explicity say this? This seems like works done by us.

He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit. Titus 3:5

Are you speaking of water baptism or spiritual baptism???

Yes, I think there is a distinction between the two. I'm pretty sure I agree with your previous post too Javier. The Hindu's perform baptisms too, but God is obviously not in that.

Then why get baptized if it has nothing to do with being a member of the body of Christ.

It does have to do with being a member of Christ.

But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:11

Since you cannot see into the hearts of the wicked, why are you baptizing them when they are infants?

Its like preaching the Word to someone; It has saving power. We can preach to babies with a 'visible' Gospel like baptism. I think its a trust that God is doing His work in the hearts of the wicked.

Why would one baptize an infant if it has nothing to do with Salvation? Tradition of men!

Do we really disagree on this point? We probably really need to distinguish like Javier said between a true "spiritual" baptism and just a "water" baptism.

 

[Vic C.]

... Water baptism is different...Did you folks know that the P harasses practiced water baptism? Many don't know this...This is why the pharisees where so upset with John the Baptist...This is also why the Sadducees did not care to much about John the Baptist ministry They did not believe in baptism...Anyway, where any of those that the Pharisees baptized saved? NO...

Just do some research on the Mikvah. 8-)

 

[jgredline]

Just do some research on the Mikvah. 8-)

I agree, folks Do a little studying and you would be surprised that there is nothing new under the son...

 

[stovebolts]

Psalm 51:5 is a hyperbole. To use this verse to sustain your position is to misapply the verse.
Take for instance what David wrote here:
Psalms 139:14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

Was David fearfully and wonderfully made in Sin?... Again, Psalm 51:5 is a hyperbole…

As far as the wages of sin being death, I believe the point is this. We “Earn†our wages, but the gift of Christ is through faith. You see, ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23)… and in that “ALLâ€Â, the Christian is not excluded. Romans 3:23 is not about damnation to hell, it is about missing out on the opportunity of God’s Glory.

When we speak on baptism, we die with Christ in the baptismal waters (Romans 6:3-7).

Jesus told his disciples after his resurrection, Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

This is water baptism…and so much more… But notice, 1. Teach 2. Baptize 3. Teaching them to obey all things.


Now, we know that there is one baptism for simply put, there is but one faith (Ephesians 4:5), but I have heard many places, “Are you speaking about spiritual baptism or water baptism?â€Â

Scripture speaks of a baptism of the Holy Spirit, which is one baptism. Then scripture also speaks of a baptism by fire, which is two baptisms and then we have water baptism, which would be three forms of baptism. I propose that all three are one in the same much like the trinity for we are baptized into the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. When one is immersed into the baptismal waters, it is through obedient faith (a faith from hearing that pricks the heart) in Christ that we are united with Christ. It is God’s grace that gives us the Holy Spirit and it is God’s grace that forgives us of our sins. (Acts 2:37-38). Thus, baptism is a response to the gospel of Christ, not a work nor merely a rite or ordinance.

When we look at Ephesians 2:8-9, we have to look at it’s purpose. In other words, why are we saved? It’s actually very simple. Ephesians 2:10 sums it up; For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. This is in agreement with Christ’s own words in Matthew 28:20. Now then, don’t be confused by how the pharasis interpreted the law and what the true intention of the law was (Galatians 5:14)

In other words, we were saved to perform Mikvah in its truest sense. Paul puts it this way; 1 Timothy 6:17-18 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;

Baptism is a package deal folks, but it starts with faith as we walk in God’s grace.