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"Believe" in the present tense

JLB said:
They shall never perish is future.
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Yep. Never shall His sheep perish (in the future) after being given eternal life in the present. Welcome to OSAS. Glad to have you aboard.

JLB said:
Since you can die, this is a future reference.
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Who said anything about physical death being the same as perishing (other than you)? His sheep do not fear death because we (our soul) goes to be with Him and await the resurrection (of our dead bodies, Matt 10:28). Don't you believe Abraham, Moses, the thief on the cross who believed and Paul are with the Lord today absent their dead bodies?

JLB said:
Do you believe this statement to be true or false?

  • those who have done good, to the resurrection of life.

  1. True
  2. False
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True.

JLB said:
Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
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Don't you think it's marvelous that a future hour is coming in which all His sheep hear His voice while their dead bodies are still in the graves? I do.

Is it possible for a dead body(still in the grave) to hear His voice?

Or Is it marvelously possible for a living soul (that had eternal life give to Him way prior to his death) to hear His voice, even while his dead body is still in the grave?
 
Gen 3:4-5
But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

When will people wake up and quit falling for the lie of satan?

Mat 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Trust in Christ, believe in His work alone for your redemption - don't continue in your self righteousness and lawlessness.
 
Papa Zoom said:
How does it apply is the question. Can you just spend some times explaining your reasoning?
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Thank you. Rom.6:22: "--and the end everlasting life" (KJV). I understand the eternal or everlasting life is not given until the "end". Anyone wishing to make an affirmative on the one-on-one? God bless.
 
billybalke said:
Thank you. Rom.6:22: "--and the end everlasting life" (KJV). I understand the eternal or everlasting life is not given until the "end". Anyone wishing to make an affirmative on the one-on-one? God bless.
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The most obvious meaning of "and the end, everlasting life" is that it refers to eternity itself, after we die physically.

And John 5:24 actually indicates WHEN one possesses eternal life:
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

So, whoever hears and believes HAS eternal life. Why wouldn't that apply the MOMENT one FIRST believesS?

Without specific Scripture that says WHEN one is given eternal life, we can easily understand that eternal life is given WHEN one believes.
 
chessman said:
Yep. Never shall His sheep perish (in the future) after being given eternal life in the present. Welcome to OSAS. Glad to have you aboard.


Who said anything about physical death being the same as perishing (other than you)? His sheep do not fear death because we (our soul) goes to be with Him and await the resurrection (of our dead bodies, Matt 10:28). Don't you believe Abraham, Moses, the thief on the cross who believed and Paul are with the Lord today absent their dead bodies?


True.



Don't you think it's marvelous that a future hour is coming in which all His sheep hear His voice while their dead bodies are still in the graves? I do.

Is it possible for a dead body(still in the grave) to hear His voice?

Or Is it marvelously possible for a living soul (that had eternal life give to Him way prior to his death) to hear His voice, even while his dead body is still in the grave?
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So you agree that John 10:28 and the eternal life that He will give us, is future and contingent upon attaining the resurrection of life.

Now you must see why we don't believe OSAS.


JLB
 
FreeGrace said:
Guaranteed from the MOMENT one receives eternal life.
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Please post the scripture that says we are garaunteed to remain in Him, once we are in Him.

Those who are in Him have access to the eternal life that is within Him.

If you are cut off because of unbelief, then you no longer have access to that eternal life.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

JLB
 
FreeGrace said:
The most obvious meaning of "and the end, everlasting life" is that it refers to eternity itself, after we die physically.

And John 5:24 actually indicates WHEN one possesses eternal life:
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

So, whoever hears and believes HAS eternal life. Why wouldn't that apply the MOMENT one FIRST believesS?

Without specific Scripture that says WHEN one is given eternal life, we can easily understand that eternal life is given WHEN one believes.
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My offer still stands. God bless
 
FreeGrace said:
Yes, dead branches asre broken off and burned. Does that refer to loss of salvation?

It CAN'T. Why not? Because Jesus said those He gives eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28

So the metaphor Jesus used in John 15 isn't about losing salvation or His claim in 10:28 cannot be true. So the farming metaphor is about something else; service and fellowship. Or lack thereof.
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So you're saying the man who falls away from his teaching can not be destroyed because Jesus said the man who hears and follows his teaching has eternal life. What kind of argument is that?
 
eternal life can be thought of as something that Christians experience now. Believers don’t have to “wait” for eternal life, because it’s not something that starts when they die. Rather, eternal life begins the moment a person exercises faith in Christ. It is our current possession. John 3:36 says, “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life.” Note that the believer “has” (present tense) this life (the verb is present tense in the Greek, too). We find similar present-tense constructions in John 5:24 and John 6:47. The focus of eternal life is not on our future, but on our current standing in Christ.

https://www.gotquestions.org/what-is-eternal-life.html

If you have passed from death to life, it's now. Not just for the future but a guarantee now. It's a promise of God.

1 John:5:13
: “These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life….” That knowing is present knowledge and that having is present possession. When anyone puts his faith in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, he receives the “gift of God,” which is “eternal life” (Rom:6:23
--, our emphasis). The gift is received immediately and lasts forever.
https://www.thebereancall.org/content/april-2013-q-and-a-2

What I see here is the OSTL side quoting only one side of the issue and forcing meaning into the text. Perhaps Pegasus, whom I fully respect, will correct me if I have this wrong, but what I see here is a classic case of eisegesis. Forcing the text to mean what you want.

Eisegesis
Eisegesis is the process of interpreting a text or portion of text in such a way that the process introduces one's own presuppositions, agendas, or biases into and onto the text. This is commonly referred to as reading into the text.

I find no convincing arguments coming from the OSTL side of this argument. Just a butchering of Scripture in many cases or a simple stretching in others.
 
dirtfarmer here

Are people physically born sheep? Are we not born as enemies of God? If we are born enemies of God then there has to be a death of the enemy of God(wolves) and a change of character. This happens when we by, belief, faith receive the new life of Christ being lived through; we are changed from enemies to heirs, from wolves to sheep. Some are wolves in sheep's clothing, not truly born from above.

The only people that are called lost sheep is Israel, never gentiles.
 
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