Believing Must Be The First Step, Right?

[hawkman]

The idea that simply saying one believes in Jesus is enough for salvation—without repentance, obedience, or transformation—developed gradually but became especially popular in the 20th century due to televangelism, mass evangelism, and a shift away from discipleship.

Believing must be the first step, right?

 

[Fish153]

Believing must be the first step , right?

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved". (2 Thess. 2:10) It appears NOT believing is what leads one to perish. So believing is how one is saved--correct. The thief on the cross BELIEVED---there was no time for obedience or transformation. He was with Jesus in paradise that very day. I appreciate what Anchor of Hope is saying----but we need to be careful not to fall into a trap of believing that Grace PLUS something else saves us---very dangerous.

 

[Anchor Of Hope]

Believing must be the first step , right ?

Right, my good friend, this is verified in Hebrews 11:6:

"But without faith, it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

We know that without faith, it is impossible to please the Lord. But the writer didn’t stop there—the second part of this verse is just as important as the first. It says, "and He is a Rewarder of them that diligently seek Him."

There is a scripture in Luke where the Lord is speaking to His disciples. It is found in Luke 16:16 (KJV):

"The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."

The phrase "every man presseth into it" suggests an intense striving, an eagerness, or even a struggle to enter the Kingdom. Likewise, diligently seeking Him is, at times, a pressing, a pushing, a struggle.

When the Lord spoke to Nicodemus in John 3, it was a very interesting discussion. Nicodemus was a very religious man in his day. After he finished commending the Lord, Jesus responded in John 3:3:

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

As you know, my good friend, when the Lord said "Verily, verily," He was emphasizing, "What I am saying is absolute—end of story."

The Lord said that unless a person is born again, they cannot even see the Kingdom of God, much less enter it. This statement rattled Nicodemus, for he had never heard such words before. His next response was:

John 3:4 – "Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?"

And the Lord answered him again:

John 3:5 – "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." What the Lord just told Nicodemus you must be Baptized, and filled with the Holy Ghost. For the Lord Jesus said if Not' you can not enter the Kingdom of God.

I said all of this to verify a point: when a woman gives birth to a child, that child is not born without much struggle. In fact, most doctors say that a woman is at the point of death during childbirth.

Luke 16:16 confirms this point:

"The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."

Being born again is a Spiritual birth. Many times, we struggle when seeking God because we are flesh. But if we are truly hungry for the Lord, we will not stop until we have experienced our own Day of Pentecost.

The Disciples of the Lord were waiting in Jerusalem in the upper room, because the Lord had told them in Acts 1:4
And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. verse 5, For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
They waited and prayed for about 10 straight days before the Holy Ghost was poured out on the Day of Pentecost.

These preachers today who present a soft gospel—telling people to just say, "I believe in Jesus Christ, and now you are saved"—have only given them half-truth. And half-truth is deception. Anyone who truly knows the Scriptures understands that the word "believe" is an action word, not just something we say.

Jesus said in John 7:38:
He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

And verse 39, (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

In summary--
Faith is essential to pleasing God, but Hebrews 11:6 emphasizes that faith is more than just belief—it requires diligent seeking. This idea is reinforced in Luke 16:16, where Jesus describes the Kingdom of God as something people must press into, implying effort, struggle, and determination.

Jesus highlighted this further when speaking to Nicodemus in John 3, declaring that unless a person is born again, they cannot even see the Kingdom, let alone enter it. This spiritual Birth, like natural birth, often involves struggle—a pressing and seeking after God. Acts 2:1-4 shows us a picture of what being Born-Again looks like.

This contradicts the soft gospel preached today, which claims that simply saying, "I believe," is enough for salvation. However, John 7:38-39 reveals that true belief is an action, leading to being filled with the Holy Ghost—a transformation that only comes through seeking and pressing into God’s Kingdom.

In short: Salvation is not passive—it requires pursuit, spiritual Birth, and a hunger that leads to the fullness of the Holy Ghost. A Transformation for sure.

 

[Fish153]

Anchor of Hope---I appreciate what you are saying. But when you stand before Christ and he asks why you should enter Heaven are you going to say: "You did your part Lord, and I did mine. I struggled very hard to enter Heaven and that striving I believe has helped me to enter Heaven". I understand what you mean about "easy-believism". When a Joel Osteen says "if you said that prayer we believe you got born-again" after preaching a watered down, feel good sermon many are deceived into believing they are saved. But being saved IS as easy as asking the Lord to come into your life. If you are truly sincere, and really believe that Jesus rose from the dead (Romans 10) you will be saved. You don't "strive" to be born-again. Being born-again is a GIFT of God. We are not born of our own will, but "OF GOD" (John 1:13).

"As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him" (Col. 2: 6). We don't receive Christ by faith and then think we are going to "strive" our way to Heaven. We walk the same way we received him---by faith.

"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely". (Rev. 22:17)

The water of life is freely offered----we just "take" it by faith. We can walk to the fountain and drink. Many think they have to crawl on their hands and knees to the fountain before they drink, but that's not true.

 

[Anchor Of Hope]

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved". (2 Thess. 2:10) It appears NOT believing is what leads one to perish. So believing is how one is saved--correct. The thief on the cross BELIEVED---there was no time for obedience or transformation. He was with Jesus in paradise that very day. I appreciate what Anchor of Hope is saying----but we need to be careful not to fall into a trap of believing that Grace PLUS something else saves us---very dangerous.

The thief on the cross was before the Church Dispensation began. Which is a total different discussion

 

[Anchor Of Hope]

Anchor of Hope---I appreciate what you are saying. But when you stand before Christ and he asks why you should enter Heaven are you going to say: "You did your part Lord, and I did mine. I struggled very hard to enter Heaven and that striving I believe has helped me to enter Heaven". I understand what you mean about "easy-believism". When a Joel Osteen says "if you said that prayer we believe you got born-again" after preaching a watered down, feel good sermon many are deceived into believing they are saved. But being saved IS as easy as asking the Lord to come into your life. If you are truly sincere, and really believe that Jesus rose from the dead (Romans 10) you will be saved. You don't "strive" to be born-again. Being born-again is a GIFT of God. We are not born of our own will, but "OF GOD" (John 1:13).

"As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him" (Col. 2: 6). We don't receive Christ by faith and then think we are going to "strive" our way to Heaven. We walk the same way we received him---by faith.

"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely". (Rev. 22:17)

The water of life is freely offered----we just "take" it by faith. We can walk to the fountain and drink. Many think they have to crawl on their hands and knees to the fountain before they drink, but that's not true.

My friend Fish, most of the scriptures you are quoting are from the Epistles: "As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him" (Col. 2: 6)." Scriptures you quoted.
Who was Paul writing to? He was writing to the Colossian Church, they had already repented of their sins, and was Baptized in water in the Name of Jesus Christ, and most had already received the Gift of the Holy Ghost. Believing is an action word, it is not just something we say. So saying I believe is not the summation of the Born-Again Experience. When Peter told the people in Acts 2:38 they must repent, it wasn't a suggestion. When he told them they must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, it wasn't a suggestion, saying I believe is not receiving the Baptism of the Holy Ghost like they received on the Day of Pentecost. Acts 2:1-4 paints a vivid picture of what receiving the Baptism of the Holy Ghost looks like. This experience still happens today, because the Church Dispensation is still in effect.

 

[Fish153]

The thief on the cross was before the Church Dispensation began. Which is a total different discussion

I disagree. The thief on the cross is in the Gospel of Luke for a reason. The Holy Spirit put the story of his death there for a good reason. It is to show us that salvation is based on Faith alone. The thief wasn't baptized. The thief had no time for striving for sanctification. He simply "looked" to Jesus and believed.

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:14-16).

The serpent Jesus speaks of is in Numbers 21:

"And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived". (Numbers 21:8,9)

Note: the people were spared when they "looked upon it". The people did no striving. They simply looked at the serpent and believed what Moses had said.

And on the contrary: I believe the thief on the cross was the FIRST member of the church. You become a Christian by believing Jesus died on the cross for you, and gave his life for you. So I believe he may have been the first believer----the Roman Centurion who said "surely this man was the Son of God" may have been the second.

 

[Anchor Of Hope]

I disagree. The thief on the cross is in the Gospel of Luke for a reason. The Holy Spirit put the story of his death there for a good reason. It is to show us that salvation is based on Faith alone. The thief wasn't baptized. The thief had no time for striving for sanctification. He simply "looked" to Jesus and believed.

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:14-16).

The serpent Jesus speaks of is in Numbers 21:

"And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived". (Numbers 21:8,9)

Note: the people were spared when they "looked upon it". The people did no striving. They simply looked at the serpent and believed what Moses had said.

And on the contrary: I believe the thief on the cross was the FIRST member of the church. You become a Christian by believing Jesus died on the cross for you, and gave his life for you. So I believe he may have been the first believer----the Roman Centurion who said "surely this man was the Son of God" may have been the second.

what you believe is not in the scripture concerning the Church, when it comes to the thief on the cross. The Chuch wasn't Born until the Day of Pentecost.

 

[Anchor Of Hope]

what you believe is not in the scripture concerning the Church, when it comes to the thief on the cross. The Chuch wasn't Born until the Day of Pentecost.

Salvation is not predicated on what you believe, it is what the Scripture says, and when you say you believe the thieft on the cross was the first in the church is completely out of context with Scripture.

 

[Fish153]

My friend Fish, most of the scriptures you are quoting are from the Epistles: "As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him" (Col. 2: 6)." Scriptures you quoted.
Who was Paul writing to? He was writing to the Colossian Church, they had already repented of their sins, and was Baptized in water in the Name of Jesus Christ, and most had already received the Gift of the Holy Ghost. Believing is an action word, it is not just something we say. So saying I believe is not the summation of the Born-Again Experience. When Peter told the people in Acts 2:38 they must repent, it wasn't a suggestion. When he told them they must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, it wasn't a suggestion, saying I believe is not receiving the Baptism of the Holy Ghost like they received on the Day of Pentecost. Acts 2:1-4 paints a vivid picture of what receiving the Baptism of the Holy Ghost looks like. This experience still happens today, because the Church Dispensation is still in effect.

You are missing the point. "as ye therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him". Paul is telling these believers---walk in Christ just as you received him: by faith. Don't think that you were born again by faith, and now YOU have to do something to be sanctified. No---continue believing and receiving. RECEIVE what Christ has for you by faith----don't WORK FOR IT. Continue to walk by faith. Galatians (another Epistle) is written to believers who were leaving that path of Grace and TRYING to change by Keeping rules and regulations. They thought their "striving" would sancfify them, when only Grace can sanctify you.

 

[Fish153]

what you believe is not in the scripture concerning the Church, when it comes to the thief on the cross. The Chuch wasn't Born until the Day of Pentecost.

The official "church" did not start until Pentecost, but there were "believers" before Pentecost. The thief went with Jesus to "Paradise" before it was emptied. But when it was emptied "believers" were taken to Heaven. If you want to get "technical" about it OK. The point I am making is that the thief (and the bronze serpent in Old Testament) shows us clearly that one is redeemed by believing---not striving. Of course, you are free to believe that one is not really saved until they "strive" and receive baptism and the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. I prefer to believe Eph. 2:8,9 and Titus 3:4-7 which have "saved" in the past tense. Not something you strive for---it's something you receive as a free gift.

 

[Anchor Of Hope]

Fish, James goes into detail about Faith, faith is an action word, when we have true Faith we will obey the scripture as laid out for the Church in Acts 2:38. You may disregard it, and say, my faith is my work, but James says I will show you my faith by my works. No getting around repentance and Baptism my dear friend.

 

[Anchor Of Hope]

The official "church" did not start until Pentecost, but there were "believers" before Pentecost. The thief went with Jesus to "Paradise" before it was emptied. But when it was emptied "believers" were taken to Heaven. If you want to get "technical" about it OK. The point I am making is that the thief (and the bronze serpent in Old Testament) shows us clearly that one is redeemed by believing---not striving. Of course, you are free to believe that one is not really saved until they "strive" and receive baptism and the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. I prefer to believe Eph. 2:8,9 and Titus 3:4-7 which have "saved" in the past tense. Not something you strive for---it's something you receive as a free gift.

Jesus is the one speaking concerning Luke 16:16 not me. The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. (Luke 16:16)
then Luke 13:23-24 (KJV):

"Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able."​

 

[hawkman]

Moderator Note .

6. Do not use phrases such as, “You’re wrong,” or any other similar phrase. This is insulting and inappropriate and there are nicer ways to disagree without being insulting.

 

[Fish153]

Anchor---- Repentance and Baptism do not save you. Repentance and Baptism are the RESULT of being saved. Jesus doesn't say "Clean yourself up first and then come to me". He never says that. When we believe and come to Him repentance is the RESULT! The Spirit comes into our hearts and we are CHANGED (2 Cor. 5:17). We are "new creatures". The Spirit gives us the desire to OBEY. We do not obey to be saved----we are saved to obey. Then, as we obey we realize the need for Baptism. it is a command. Baptism doesn't save us---we are baptized to REVEAL AND SHOW OTHERS that we believe and have been SAVED. I'm sorry Anchor, but you have it backwards.

What James is teaching is that a truly saved person, who is changed, WILL DO GOOD WORKS. It is the FRUIT of his salvation. James isn't teaching we need to do good to be saved----he is saying by doing good you show you are truly saved already. Abraham's good works weren't what pleased God---what pleased God is that Abraham BELIEVED GOD. The RESULT of Abraham believing was obedience and good works. That is what James is teaching.

 

[Anchor Of Hope]

Anchor---- Repentance and Baptism do not save you. Repentance and Baptism are the RESULT of being saved. Jesus doesn't say "Clean yourself up first and then come to me". He never says that. When we believe and come to Him repentance is the RESULT! The Spirit comes into our hearts and we are CHANGED (2 Cor. 5:17). We are "new creatures". The Spirit gives us the desire to OBEY. We do not obey to be saved----we are saved to obey. Then, as we obey we realize the need for Baptism. it is a command. Baptism doesn't save us---we are baptized to REVEAL AND SHOW OTHERS that we believe and have been SAVED. I'm sorry Anchor, but you have it backwards.

What James is teaching is that a truly saved person, who is changed, WILL DO GOOD WORKS. It is the FRUIT of his salvation. James isn't teaching we need to do good to be saved----he is saying by doing good you show you are truly saved already. Abraham's good works weren't what pleased God---what pleased God is that Abraham BELIEVED GOD. The RESULT of Abraham believing was obedience and good works. That is what James is teaching.

What please God about Abraham was He Believed God, and because of His Belief, He walked the distance. He didn't just say ok Lord I believe you, now give me the land. Not at all, if Abraham hadn't walked the distance he would have received no land.

 

[Anchor Of Hope]

What please God about Abraham was He Believed God, and because of His Belief, He walked the distance. He didn't just say ok Lord I believe you, now give me the land. Not at all, if Abraham hadn't walked the distance he would have received no land.

I know what you believe, and it is half-Truth

 

[Anchor Of Hope]

Anchor---- Repentance and Baptism do not save you. Repentance and Baptism are the RESULT of being saved. Jesus doesn't say "Clean yourself up first and then come to me". He never says that. When we believe and come to Him repentance is the RESULT! The Spirit comes into our hearts and we are CHANGED (2 Cor. 5:17). We are "new creatures". The Spirit gives us the desire to OBEY. We do not obey to be saved----we are saved to obey. Then, as we obey we realize the need for Baptism. it is a command. Baptism doesn't save us---we are baptized to REVEAL AND SHOW OTHERS that we believe and have been SAVED. I'm sorry Anchor, but you have it backwards.

What James is teaching is that a truly saved person, who is changed, WILL DO GOOD WORKS. It is the FRUIT of his salvation. James isn't teaching we need to do good to be saved----he is saying by doing good you show you are truly saved already. Abraham's good works weren't what pleased God---what pleased God is that Abraham BELIEVED GOD. The RESULT of Abraham believing was obedience and good works. That is what James is teaching.

Baptism doesn't save us---we are baptized to REVEAL AND SHOW OTHERS that we believe and have been SAVED. I'm sorry Anchor, but you have it backwards. --
That's not what Peter said in 1 Peter 3:21: The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"

 

[Anchor Of Hope]

Baptism doesn't save us---we are baptized to REVEAL AND SHOW OTHERS that we believe and have been SAVED. I'm sorry Anchor, but you have it backwards. --
That's not what Peter said in 1 Peter 3:21: The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"

every way you turn you can't quiet get it right my friend can you?

 

[Fish153]

What please God about Abraham was He Believed God, and because of His Belief, He walked the distance. He didn't just say ok Lord I believe you, now give me the land. Not at all, if Abraham hadn't walked the distance he would have received no land.

What James is teaching is that many can say "I am a believer" and yet show no fruits to prove they really are. An apple tree produces apples. A Christian should produce good fruit because they have been changed (saved). Many misunderstand what James is teaching. They think he is teaching that you must do good works to be saved. When in reality he is really teaching that if you are SAVED the RESULT will be good works.

Abraham shows this. Abraham REALLY believed God, and we see this as a RESULT when he offers his son Isaac to God. The FRUIT of Abraham's belief in God is shown in his obedience. So, again, James isn't teaching that doing good works will save you or justify you before God. Good works are the RESULT of true belief. This is what he is teaching.