Believing Must Be The First Step, Right?

[Anchor Of Hope]

What James is teaching is that many can say "I am a believer" and yet show no fruits to prove they really are. An apple tree produces apples. A Christian should produce good fruit because they have been changed (saved). Many misunderstand what James is teaching. They think he is teaching that you must do good works to be saved. When in reality he is really teaching that if you are SAVED the RESULT will be good works.

Abraham shows this. Abraham REALLY believed God, and we see this as a RESULT when he offers his son Isaac to God. The FRUIT of Abraham's belief in God is shown in his obedience. So, again, James isn't teaching that doing good works will save you or justify you before God. Good works are the RESULT of true belief. This is what he is teaching.

I know what James taught, and I know what the Lord taught, it is evident you are complacent with half-truth, I have no problem with that carry on friend.

 

[Fish153]

Baptism doesn't save us---we are baptized to REVEAL AND SHOW OTHERS that we believe and have been SAVED. I'm sorry Anchor, but you have it backwards. --
That's not what Peter said in 1 Peter 3:21: The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"

Anchor---- I will not go into an "attempt" on my part to answer this. Please go to this link: https://www.gotquestions.org/baptism-1Peter-3-21.html

It clearly shows what Peter is teaching.

 

[Fish153]

every way you turn you can't quiet get it right my friend can you?

LOL----so I guess you are saying that if I don't see it your way then I'm not getting it "right".

 

[Anchor Of Hope]

LOL----so I guess you are saying that if I don't see it your way then I'm not getting it "right".

No, I'm not saying that at all, but if you don't keep the Word of God in context, you will have problems. You may need to go to that this link dear friend "KnowtheScripture101.com"

 

[Fish153]

No, I'm not saying that at all, but if you don't keep the Word of God in context, you will have problems. You may need to go to that this link dear friend "KnowtheScripture101.com"

Did you check the link for 1 Peter 3:21 above or just refuse? It really does have a very clear explanation of that verse if you will take the time to read it. I've enjoyed the discussion. God bless you!

 

[Anchor Of Hope]

Did you check the link for 1 Peter 3:21 above or just refuse? It really does have a very clear explanation of that verse if you will take the time to read it. I've enjoyed the discussion. God bless you!

No, and I'm not interested, Because I am full of the Holy Ghost, and My Jesus alone has opened my understanding to His Precious Word. I don't need a prop, For I pray often Luke 24:45 and here is where I get my understanding to the Scripture. Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

 

[for_his_glory]

These preachers today who present a soft gospel—telling people to just say, "I believe in Jesus Christ, and now you are saved"—have only given them half-truth. And half-truth is deception. Anyone who truly knows the Scriptures understands that the word "believe" is an action word, not just something we say.

It's so sad that any Preacher that presents, what you call it as being a soft gospel will have to account for those who truly were never taught about being Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit. So many go to Church, but truly are not of the body of Christ. It takes faith to believe as it only begins as the size of a mustard seed.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[Fish153]

No, and I'm not interested, Because I am full of the Holy Ghost, and My Jesus alone has opened my understanding to His Precious Word. I don't need a prop, For I pray often Luke 24:45 and here is where I get my understanding to the Scripture. Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Proverbs says that fools hate correction. If you think that you alone have understanding you're treading dangerous ground. There are a LOT of people out there who think they are filled with the Holy Ghost but refuse to be corrected, or make sure that what they are believing is correct doctrine. David Berg, leader of the "Children of God" believed he was filled with the Holy Spirit and would not accept correction from anyone. I just post that as warning---not to rebuke your sincerity. All the best to you!

 

[JLB]

Salvation is not predicated on what you believe, it is what the Scripture says, and when you say you believe the thieft on the cross was the first in the church is completely out of context with Scripture.

I guess no one was born again under Jesus’s ministry?

Do you really believe that?

 

[Anchor Of Hope]

I guess no one was born again under Jesus’s ministry?

Do you really believe that?

That’s right No One was Born Again While Jesus was on Earth. Why would you think otherwise? The Church was Born on the Day of Pentecost.

 

[Anchor Of Hope]

Proverbs says that fools hate correction. If you think that you alone have understanding you're treading dangerous ground. There are a LOT of people out there who think they are filled with the Holy Ghost but refuse to be corrected, or make sure that what they are believing is correct doctrine. David Berg, leader of the "Children of God" believed he was filled with the Holy Spirit and would not accept correction from anyone. I just post that as warning---not to rebuke your sincerity. All the best to you!

Where is your doctrine taken from? Romans 10:9-10 and Ephesians 2:8-9?

 

[Anchor Of Hope]

It's so sad that any Preacher that presents, what you call it as being a soft gospel will have to account for those who truly were never taught about being Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit. So many go to Church, but truly are not of the body of Christ. It takes faith to believe as it only begins as the size of a mustard seed.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

That is so true, it is sad, people don’t know how to rightly divide the Word of Truth. I’m really sorry about that, For His Glory.

 

[JLB]

That’s right No One was Born Again While Jesus was on Earth. Why would you think otherwise? The Church was Born on the Day of Pentecost.

Because Jesus preached the Gospel to many people and they believed and were saved.

The condition for salvation is to believe (obey) the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved

By your claim the day of Pentecost with the baptism with the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues is the only evidence of salvation.

The Apostles were born again when they believed the gospel message and began following Him.

So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
John 20:21-22

 

[JLB]

That’s right No One was Born Again While Jesus was on Earth. Why would you think otherwise? The Church was Born on the Day of Pentecost.

This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
Acts 7:38


How was Abraham saved?

 

[Hopeful 2]

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved". (2 Thess. 2:10) It appears NOT believing is what leads one to perish. So believing is how one is saved--correct. The thief on the cross BELIEVED---there was no time for obedience or transformation. He was with Jesus in paradise that very day. I appreciate what Anchor of Hope is saying----but we need to be careful not to fall into a trap of believing that Grace PLUS something else saves us---very dangerous.

Can any one be saved without loving God with all their heart, soul, mind, and strength...and their neighbor as themselves ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

What James is teaching is that many can say "I am a believer" and yet show no fruits to prove they really are. An apple tree produces apples. A Christian should produce good fruit because they have been changed (saved). Many misunderstand what James is teaching. They think he is teaching that you must do good works to be saved. When in reality he is really teaching that if you are SAVED the RESULT will be good works.

Abraham shows this. Abraham REALLY believed God, and we see this as a RESULT when he offers his son Isaac to God. The FRUIT of Abraham's belief in God is shown in his obedience. So, again, James isn't teaching that doing good works will save you or justify you before God. Good works are the RESULT of true belief. This is what he is teaching.

With that post in mind, you must be able to see that those bringing forth evil works-sin, are not believers.

 

[Free]

Belief implies repentance and repentance implies belief. You cannot have one without the other; they are two sides of the same coin.

 

[onlysaved]

Yes, the first step is to believe God.
That is not just mere intellectual agreement that God exists.
The Word translated as "believe" has a form that means to believe and keep on believing.

"Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness."

Abraham so trusted God that he was willing to sacrifice his son on God's command. Keep in mind that God had also previously promised that He would make a great nation out of his son. So really Abraham believed that he could kill his son AND that God would still be able to make him into a great nation.
Anyway... Yes the first step is to believe God, that belief is trusting that God's plan of salvation through the death and resurrection of His Son Jesus Christ. Everything after that is sanctification which is really nothing more than becoming more Christ like through obedience to God's word.
Where Christ likeness isn't occurring there is room to question the validity of belief, but since that's between the individual and God so that's best used as self evaluation.

 

[Anchor Of Hope]

Because Jesus preached the Gospel to many people and they believed and were saved.

The condition for salvation is to believe (obey) the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved

By your claim the day of Pentecost with the baptism with the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues is the only evidence of salvation.

The Apostles were born again when they believed the gospel message and began following Him.

So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
John 20:21-22

Have you never read John 3:1-10? Nicodemus a religious man of his day, come to Jesus by night, he commended the Lord because of the works and miracles that was seen and talked about all over Jerusalem. John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
So who says when we say we have faith that is the Born Again Experience? show me the scripture.

 

[Free]

In short: Salvation is not passive—it requires pursuit, spiritual Birth, and a hunger that leads to the fullness of the Holy Ghost. A Transformation for sure.

Do you deny that salvation is a work of God from start to finish? Do you deny that justification is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone?