Bible Study Bible & homosexual marriage

[jocor]

Doing, under the law, without love, is just an action that even non-Christians are capable of doing.

So are these (non-christians) justified because they followed the law?

Agape is what sets us apart from the world - not following a list of things we should or shouldn't do.

Who said anything about being justified? We don't abstain from homosexuality in order to be justified by the Law, but because we love Yahweh and want to obey His commandments. We don't abstain from stealing in order to be justified by the Law, but because we love our neighbor and do not want to wrong him in any way. The same holds true with all the Law.

 

[jasonc]

this post i going south from the O.P . the debate is same sex marriage if a person is saved and will read what paul had to say about same sex relationships .there should be no debate among Christians is it ok. the key word is NO it is not alright. you either agree with the word of God or you don,t law no law n.t says it is wrong and a abomination.period this is exactly how the devil gets a foot in the door=======liberalism. its the same way with abortion as birth control it becomes murder.

not me.

 

[jocor]

law no law n.t says it is wrong and a abomination.period

I agree. The NT says it is wrong because the OT says it is wrong. Same law for both covenants.

 

[Abigail123]

this post i going south from the O.P . the debate is same sex marriage if a person is saved and will read what paul had to say about same sex relationships .there should be no debate among Christians is it ok. the key word is NO it is not alright. you either agree with the word of God or you don,t law no law n.t says it is wrong and a abomination.period this is exactly how the devil gets a foot in the door=======liberalism. its the same way with abortion as birth control it becomes murder.

No one is advocating same sex marriage nor homosexuality. What is disturbing is people who believe we're to abstain because we're still under the Law. We're to abstain because God said it was an abomination and we're loving Him enough not to go there.

 

[Abigail123]

Who said anything about being justified? We don't abstain from homosexuality in order to be justified by the Law, but because we love Yahweh and want to obey His commandments. We don't abstain from stealing in order to be justified by the Law, but because we love our neighbor and do not want to wrong him in any way. The same holds true with all the Law.

Jocor - if you go back and read my posts this is exactly what I've been saying, over and over again I've been saying this but you insisted that we're under OT Law and continued arguing. So if you do KNOW this, then why are you arguing against loving God???

We LOVE the Lord - that's what keeps us in the boundaries of do's and don'ts.

 

[OzSpen]

T
Hebrews 10:30 is referencing Deuteronomy 32:35-36 in which YHWH is the speaker and in which "YHWH" appears in the text. I did not substitute "YHWH" for "kurios". I restored "YHWH" where it should be in order to rightly understand the text. Our Greek copies substituted "kurios" in place of "YHWH". That causes confusion concerning which "lord" is referred to. Since Paul said there are many lords (1 Cor. 8:5), restoring "YHWH" identifies the exact being referred to.

You are incorrect here. Our Greek NT does not 'copy' kurios (Lord) in place of YHWH. The infallible NT has stated that this kurios, Lord, is God himself according to Heb 10:31 (ESV) the context: 'It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God'.

Do you believe that for a person to receive salvation he/she needs to obey certain laws of the OT?

 

[OzSpen]

this post i going south from the O.P . the debate is same sex marriage if a person is saved and will read what paul had to say about same sex relationships .there should be no debate among Christians is it ok. the key word is NO it is not alright. you either agree with the word of God or you don,t law no law n.t says it is wrong and a abomination.period this is exactly how the devil gets a foot in the door=======liberalism. its the same way with abortion as birth control it becomes murder.

ezra,

This thread is not 'going south' from the OP. Instead, some in this thread are trying to clarify the place of the OT for the NT believer. This is important as it is the OT that states that homosexuality is 'an abomination' (Lev 18:22 ESV). Is the language of the OT that homosexuality before God is an abomination, still applicable for NT believers to use?

That's why the relationship of the OT to NT believers is being pursued by me. There is a reason and it is directly related to the OP, to obtain clarification.

As you understand homosexuality, is describing it as 'an abomination' (OT language) applicable for Christians to use today?

Oz

 

[ezra]

ezra,

This thread is not 'going south' from the OP. Instead, some in this thread are trying to clarify the place of the OT for the NT believer. This is important as it is the OT that states that homosexuality is 'an abomination' (Lev 18:22 ESV). Is the language of the OT that homosexuality before God is an abomination, still applicable for NT believers to use?

That's why the relationship of the OT to NT believers is being pursued by me. There is a reason and it is directly related to the OP, to obtain clarification.

As you understand homosexuality, is describing it as 'an abomination' (OT language) applicable for Christians to use today?

Oz

new testament says its a abomination . do you think the homosexual life style is pleasing to God acceptable in his sight those who practice it can make it to heaven
sin is sin if i do it knowing its wrong is sin if you do it knowing its wrong is sin the law was our school master it points toward what is sin. so we all have some type education h.s graduate college graduate we learned the right way to do things and what is the wrong way . correct me if i understand wrong. but you want to clarify what is sin in the old test. and say under the new testament its not .i understand the old rather well i also understand the new test backs up the old. { Is the language of the OT that homosexuality before God is an abomination, still applicable for NT believers to use? } you answer the ball is in your court.....

 

[jocor]

Jocor - if you go back and read my posts this is exactly what I've been saying, over and over again I've been saying this but you insisted that we're under OT Law and continued arguing. So if you do KNOW this, then why are you arguing against loving God???

We LOVE the Lord - that's what keeps us in the boundaries of do's and don'ts.

I never said we were "under OT Law". I am trying to show you that love does not do away with the Law as you imply. Love fulfills the law. When we don't steal, murder, etc., we fulfill not only the Ten Words, but the Law of Love.

 

[jocor]

You are incorrect here. Our Greek NT does not 'copy' kurios (Lord) in place of YHWH. The infallible NT has stated that this kurios, Lord, is God himself according to Heb 10:31 (ESV) the context: 'It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God'.

Do you believe that for a person to receive salvation he/she needs to obey certain laws of the OT?

It can be said that the original autographs were infallible, but the ensuing copies were certainly not.

Salvation is received by grace through faith alone. Salvation can be lost if a person willfully practices sin, ie; willfully lives a lifestyle of breaking the Ten Words. For example, a believer who falls away and willfully lives and adulterous/idolatrous lifestyle will not be saved.

 

[ezra]

Salvation is received by grace through faith alone. Salvation can be lost if a person willfully practices sin, ie; willfully lives a lifestyle of breaking the Ten Words. For example, a believer who falls away and willfully lives and adulterous/idolatrous lifestyle will not be saved.

i have doubts they was ever saved to start with

 

[Kidron]

Salvation can be lost if a person willfully practices sin,

Its interesting that you have said the bible is a book of errors yet you cant prove it.
And the reason you cant, is because you dont read Hebrew, you dont read Greek, and even if you did, you've never seen the original
pentateuch or original letters of the NT, and because you haven't you cant say that... "as compared to the originals i read"...
My advice to you is to consider that God will preserve His word, and did.

And regarding your idea about "sinning willfully".
Have you never considered that nearly every sin you commit, you did it willfully?
Every Christian on this forum sins willfully or they would not be confessing their sins to Priests, or to God in prayer.
So, really, just get real, and study this verse until you understand it.
Romans 4:8

 

[OzSpen]

new testament says its [homosexuality] a abomination.

Where?

 

[OzSpen]

It can be said that the original autographs were infallible, but the ensuing copies were certainly not.

Salvation is received by grace through faith alone. Salvation can be lost if a person willfully practices sin, ie; willfully lives a lifestyle of breaking the Ten Words. For example, a believer who falls away and willfully lives and adulterous/idolatrous lifestyle will not be saved.

Please provide me with MSS evidence that in Heb 10:31 (ESV) the original MSS behind it used YHWH and was changed to kurios by those who copied Heb 10:31.

You confirmed that salvation is by grace through faith alone. But you did not answer my question: 'Do you believe that for a person to receive salvation he/she needs to obey certain laws of the OT'?

 

[OzSpen]

Like I said, if you're loving your neighbor and loving God, it's difficult to sin against them. It's why Jesus said these were the 2 greatest commandments. Without love there is little else.

You have avoided what I asked: 'So is Heb 10:30 (ESV) not in your Bible? What about 1 Cor 6:9 (NIV)?' So you've dished up a red herring fallacy.

In both of these verses God judged: 'Vengeance is mine [God's]' and 'the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God'. In both of these revelations God declared that he loved us so much that he has to be honest with judgment. You seem to be avoiding the God of judgment. Don't you believe in God, the Judge?

 

[turnorburn]

Where?

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

tob

 

[evenifigoalone]

Where?

http://www.witnessfortheworld.org/homont.html

Interested in what you have to say on this list of Scriptures.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Where?

ROM. 1: 16-32

 

[OzSpen]

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

tob

tob,

That's a red herring of a reply. The statement to me was: 'new testament says its [homosexuality] a abomination'. I asked where and you give me Jude 7. There is not one word in Jude 7 that says that homosexuality is an 'abomination'. Hence your reply does not answer the question and commits a red herring fallacy.

 

[jocor]

i have doubts they was ever saved to start with

i have doubts they was ever saved to start with

I'm not going to get into an OSAS discussion.