Biblical Lightning and Fire from Heaven

[whirlwind]

Luke 10:18 And He said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.


While Jesus walked on earth He "beheld Satan" fall...past tense. So, was Satan kicked out of heaven by Michael before the crucifixion as written in Revelation? Or is something else being said?

• Revelation 12:7-9 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

I always saw that as future, when he was cast down for his great tribulation at the 6th vial, 6th trump and 6th seal...666, but how can that be as Jesus said He "beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven." I believe the solution to this is how he fell...."as lightning." He himself is still in heaven, he and his angels...waiting for the war and the 6th trumpet but his spirit fell at the 5th trumpet.....

• Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

The "star" that fell is an angel, as explained in [Rev.1:20]. Satan's spirit is freely operating among his followers....as the Holy Spirit is leading the children of God, the evil spirit is leading it's children. At the sixth trump Satan, de facto, will be here...not just his spirit but the man! And then....

• Revelation 13:13-14 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Fire, as used in the above verse, can be translated as....lightning! Satan, the second beast mentioned in the above chapter, will make lightning come down from heaven in the sight of men and the first beast, the wounded beast. What is lightning?

• Ezekiel 1:13-14 As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning. And the living creatures ran and returned as the appearance of a flash of lightning.
  
  Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
  
  Matthew 28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and His raiment white as snow:
  
  Matthew 17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

So we see what is meant by lightning and fire....spiritual beings/angels. Are we ready for that event? There is the calling of his, Satan's angels, and then....the lightning of God. This also applies to the fire of Elijah.....

• 11 Kings 1:10 And Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, If I be a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And there came down fire from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty. (12) And Elijah answered and said unto them, If I be a man of God, let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And the fire of God came down from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty.

Fire, as used there is....

• #784 Fire ~ esh; a prim. word: fire - burning, fiery fire, flaming, hot. #786 ish, ident. (in or, and formation) with 784; entity, used only adv. there is or are. are there, none can.

The same fiery entities, lightning like angelic beings, that are with us if we are "men of God," one of the elect...a man child (young man.)

• 11 Kings 6:15-17 And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, "Alas, my master! how shall we do?" And he ansered, "Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them." And Elisha prayed, and said, "LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see." And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man: and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

 

[Vic C.]

Yup, in the Bible, stars sometimes mean angels. :yes

The 666 analogy seems like a bit of a stretch to me. :D

I have come to believe that some of Rev. 12 is past tense for sure.

People in Biblical times saw lightning and "shooting stars" and had no idea they were seeing weather events and meteorites and such entering the atmosphere. So, those visions makes a wonderful way of painting a picture for us of what it may have been like when Satan and his were thrown down from the heavens.

 

[JudaicChristian]

Christians continually forget the the bible is full of parables. If it should apply, the word "fire," "coal," and "lighting" means "judgement." The word "thunder" means "action."

 

[JudaicChristian]

Yup, in the Bible, stars sometimes mean angels. :yes

The 666 analogy seems like a bit of a stretch to me. :D

I have come to believe that some of Rev. 12 is past tense for sure.

People in Biblical times saw lightning and "shooting stars" and had no idea they were seeing weather events and meteorites and such entering the atmosphere. So, those visions makes a wonderful way of painting a picture for us of what it may have been like when Satan and his were thrown down from the heavens.

If the word "angel" was translated into English it would read "messenger."

 

[whirlwind]

Yup, in the Bible, stars sometimes mean angels. :yes

The 666 analogy seems like a bit of a stretch to me. :D

I have come to believe that some of Rev. 12 is past tense for sure.

People in Biblical times saw lightning and "shooting stars" and had no idea they were seeing weather events and meteorites and such entering the atmosphere. So, those visions makes a wonderful way of painting a picture for us of what it may have been like when Satan and his were thrown down from the heavens.

So you believe the lighting, fire and shooting stars are...literal lightning, fire and stars?

 

[Ret]

Luke 10:18 And He said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

While Jesus walked on earth He "beheld Satan" fall...past tense. So, was Satan kicked out of heaven by Michael before the crucifixion as written in Revelation? Or is something else being said?

Luke 10 begins in refrence to Jesus sending out the 70 in 'pairs'. In v 17, the 70 return...

• Luke 10:17-18
  17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying,
  Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
  18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. KJV

However, in Luke 10 - a couple verses earlier, before the 70 return Jesus says....

• Luke 10:15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell. KJV

I perceive this as a spiritual application of the domain of Satan. A war of the mind goes on...does Satan, the Devil, control my 'heavenly' space, or does Satan/Devil reside there. For Jesus to reside there, Satan must be cast out, as Jesus says 'I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.' The work of the '70' corresponded to this in the casting out demons that take up controlling the human being.

• Revelation 12:7-9 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

I always saw that as future, when he was cast down for his great tribulation at the 6th vial, 6th trump and 6th seal...666, but how can that be as Jesus said He "beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven." I believe the solution to this is how he fell...."as lightning." He himself is still in heaven, he and his angels...waiting for the war and the 6th trumpet but his spirit fell at the 5th trumpet.....

At the death of Jesus Christ, the 'prince of this world was JUDGED' and the devil and his angels were cast OUT of HEAVEN...as stated in John 12:31 and restated in Rev 12:7-9

• John 12:31-33
  31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
  32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
  33 This he said, signifying what death he should die. KJV

• Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

The "star" that fell is an angel, as explained in [Rev.1:20]. Satan's spirit is freely operating among his followers....as the Holy Spirit is leading the children of God, the evil spirit is leading it's children. At the sixth trump Satan, de facto, will be here...not just his spirit but the man!

• Rev 9:1
  Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit. NKJV

Two things...first, the NKJ states 'fallen from heaven to the earth', doesn't say when it fell. I believe Jesus answered this in John 12:31. Next, I believe you are referring to Rev 20:1 not Rev 1:20. Rev 9:1 talks about a 'fallen star', whereas Rev 20:1 speaks of an angel who lays hold of the serpent, devil, satan and binds him 1000 years.

And then....

• Revelation 13:13-14 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Fire, as used in the above verse, can be translated as....lightning! Satan, the second beast mentioned in the above chapter, will make lightning come down from heaven in the sight of men and the first beast, the wounded beast. What is lightning?

• 2 Corinthians 11:14
  14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. KJV

 

[JudaicChristian]

Zechariah 3:8.
" 'Listen, O high priest [of] Joshua [Yahshua] and your associates seated before you, who are men symbolic of things to come:

Mark 3:17.
James son of Zebedee and his brother John (to them he gave the name Boanerges, which means Sons of Thunder

Revelation 1:19. "Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later. 20 The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampsticks is this: The seven stars are the messengers of the seven congregations, and the seven lampsticks are the seven congregations.

Revelation 4:5.
From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumblings and peals of thunder. Before the throne, seven lampsticks were blazing. These are the seven spirits of God.

Revelation 10:3.
and he gave a loud shout like the roar of a lion. When he shouted, the voices of the seven thunders spoke.

Revelation 10:4.
And when the seven thunders spoke, I was about to write; but I heard a voice from heaven say, "Seal up what the seven thunders have said and do not write it down."

Revelation 19:6.
Then I heard what sounded like a great multitude, like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, shouting: "Hallelujah! For our Lord God Almighty reigns.

 

[whirlwind]

Luke 10:18 And He said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

While Jesus walked on earth He "beheld Satan" fall...past tense. So, was Satan kicked out of heaven by Michael before the crucifixion as written in Revelation? Or is something else being said?

Luke 10 begins in refrence to Jesus sending out the 70 in 'pairs'. In v 17, the 70 return...

• Luke 10:17-18
  17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying,
  Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
  18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. KJV

However, in Luke 10 - a couple verses earlier, before the 70 return Jesus says....

• Luke 10:15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell. KJV

I perceive this as a spiritual application of the domain of Satan. A war of the mind goes on...does Satan, the Devil, control my 'heavenly' space, or does Satan/Devil reside there. For Jesus to reside there, Satan must be cast out, as Jesus says 'I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.' The work of the '70' corresponded to this in the casting out demons that take up controlling the human being.

Well that's an interesting take. His seeing Satan fall was a spiritual falling from those the seventy had cleansed. Wow! I'm not certain it's correct yet but I sure admire the thought and will consider it.

• Revelation 12:7-9 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

I always saw that as future, when he was cast down for his great tribulation at the 6th vial, 6th trump and 6th seal...666, but how can that be as Jesus said He "beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven." I believe the solution to this is how he fell...."as lightning." He himself is still in heaven, he and his angels...waiting for the war and the 6th trumpet but his spirit fell at the 5th trumpet.....

At the death of Jesus Christ, the 'prince of this world was JUDGED' and the devil and his angels were cast OUT of HEAVEN...as stated in John 12:31 and restated in Rev 12:7-9

• John 12:31-33
  31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
  32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
  33 This he said, signifying what death he should die. KJV

That one I'm not certain of. I see the accuser as still being there although his spirit is certainly here. As those verses say that he "will draw all men unto me," that is an ongoing process as is the "judgment of the world," or at least those in the world. I think the prince of this world is still there but his spirit is here.

• Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

The "star" that fell is an angel, as explained in [Rev.1:20]. Satan's spirit is freely operating among his followers....as the Holy Spirit is leading the children of God, the evil spirit is leading it's children. At the sixth trump Satan, de facto, will be here...not just his spirit but the man!

• Rev 9:1
  Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit. NKJV

Two things...first, the NKJ states 'fallen from heaven to the earth', doesn't say when it fell. I believe Jesus answered this in John 12:31. Next, I believe you are referring to Rev 20:1 not Rev 1:20. Rev 9:1 talks about a 'fallen star', whereas Rev 20:1 speaks of an angel who lays hold of the serpent, devil, satan and binds him 1000 years.

Revelation 1:20 was just quoted to show where the definition for "star" as angels was given.

Revelation 20:1 is where he is locked away for the millennium so that wasn't what I was referring to.

In 9:1, at the fifth trump, a star (angel) falls and he opens the pit. If the star is Satan then he isn't in the pit as he unlocks it but I believe this is when his spirit (as the star/lightning/spirit) comes to earth. He himself is still in heaven but not his spirit. The thread was about what lighting, stars and fire represent...and that is a spiritual being. So although the verse doesn't "say when it fell" it does tell us it happens at the fifth trump.

And then....

• Revelation 13:13-14 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Fire, as used in the above verse, can be translated as....lightning! Satan, the second beast mentioned in the above chapter, will make lightning come down from heaven in the sight of men and the first beast, the wounded beast. What is lightning?

• 2 Corinthians 11:14
  14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. KJV

Yes indeed...an angel of light/lightning.

 

[whirlwind]

Zechariah 3:8.
" 'Listen, O high priest [of] Joshua [Yahshua] and your associates seated before you, who are men symbolic of things to come:

Mark 3:17.
James son of Zebedee and his brother John (to them he gave the name Boanerges, which means Sons of Thunder

Revelation 1:19. "Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later. 20 The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampsticks is this: The seven stars are the messengers of the seven congregations, and the seven lampsticks are the seven congregations.

Revelation 4:5.
From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumblings and peals of thunder. Before the throne, seven lampsticks were blazing. These are the seven spirits of God.

Revelation 10:3.
and he gave a loud shout like the roar of a lion. When he shouted, the voices of the seven thunders spoke.

Revelation 10:4.
And when the seven thunders spoke, I was about to write; but I heard a voice from heaven say, "Seal up what the seven thunders have said and do not write it down."

Revelation 19:6.
Then I heard what sounded like a great multitude, like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, shouting: "Hallelujah! For our Lord God Almighty reigns.

I almost added the "sons of thunder" verse to the OP but didn't. I'm glad you put it here.

 

[Ret]

The thread was about what lighting, stars and fire represent...and that is a spiritual being.

In zeal for the religion of the fathers, murder had spiritually bound Saul/Paul in the 'bottomless pit' till a journey to Damascus, where he was struck with lightning casting out the demon of murder under which he was bound...setting Saul/Paul free to follow Jesus Christ, the Son of God!

• Job 36:32 "He covers His hands with the lightning,
  And commands it to strike the mark. NASU

 

[researcher]

What about:

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Lightning
G796
From G797; lightning;
G797
Probably from G792; to flash as lightning: - lighten, shine.
G792
Probably from the base of G4766; a star

Stars rise out of the East. Maybe his coming will be like a star coming out of the East and not lightning. :o Lol. ;) :D

Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

:o :P

 

[JudaicChristian]

What about:

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Lightning
G796
From G797; lightning;
G797
Probably from G792; to flash as lightning: - lighten, shine.
G792
Probably from the base of G4766; a star

Stars rise out of the East. Maybe his coming will be like a star coming out of the East and not lightning. :o Lol. ;) :D

Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

:o :P

That would mean that he came in a flash. (In an instant.)

 

[veteran]

Found your thread whirlwind,

Something I believe Ret brought up I wanted to bring into consideration with the thread...

I understand what you're saying in relation to Rev.9:1 with the 5th trumpet. And isn't Satan's spirit already working on earth today?

I believe per the Book of John that Satan was cast out of this world when Christ defeated him de facto on the cross. Hebrews 2:14 tells us Christ came in the flesh so through death He would defeat both death and the devil. Later in John 14:30 our Lord said "Hereafter, I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me." I think that refers to his being cast down to this earth per Rev.12:7-9. Note more of the flow of those Rev.12 verses...

Rev 12:7-13
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

There's some major pointers in these verses which reveal the timing. This is one of the first ones underlined. A later verse is going to show us what Satan was doing in Heaven just before this casting out.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

When Satan and his angels are cast out of Heaven, right then comes Salvation... and the power of Christ Jesus... in Heaven, meaning Christ's Salvation in the Heavenly, but not on earth. Notice what Satan was doing while his place was in Heaven. He stood as the accuser of our brethren, accusing God's people before God, much like what Satan did in Heaven with accussing Job before God's Throne.

Question: would that Salvation and power of Christ have been possible there if that was about Satan's first rebellion and falling as lightning from Heaven? No, for Christ Jesus had not yet come to die on the cross when Satan first rebelled. So that's the first major time marker, pointing that event for at least a time after Christ's death and resurrection.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Now we're given a picture of the saints that overcome Satan by the Blood of Christ Jesus. And the time of a Testimony for Christ is given along with that. It's a very strong tribulation timing marker.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Rejoicing begins in Heaven, but 'woes' begin upon the earth, and a warning to those upon the earth when that happens. There's a marker to the 3 woe periods, the events of the last 3 trumpets. That also includes a marker to the seventh king of Rev.17:10 who is to continue "a short space", meaning a short space of time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
(KJV)

The "woman" of Rev.12:1 is a symbol for Israel, from Genesis 37:9 about Joseph's dream. That is Satan (dragon) cast to the earth with his angels to persecute God's people...

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

There's that 1260 days of verse 6 of this chapter, and also the 3.5 years of the Book of Daniel, also the 42 months of Rev.11 and 13.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

Remember Rev.9 we were told the locust army's power was in their mouths, i.e., deception caused by lies from the dragon, working like an overflowing flood, i.e., even like a Satanic version of Noah's flood using lies. But the earth protects God's people during that period of the flood of deception by the dragon. That marks a sixth trumpet and second woe timing.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
(KJV)

Because of the earth protecting God's people (the woman), the dragon becomes angry in final, and goes to make war upon the saints, meaning the undeceived. I think this also is a marker for a certain passage in Ezekiel 38...

Ezek 38:9-12
9 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.
10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:
11 And thou shalt say, "I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land."
(KJV)

And when Satan tries to make that war upon the saints, that's when God says further in Ezekiel 38 that fury will come up in His Face, and He will cause a great shaking in the land, and every WALL will fall to the ground at His Presence. And God will rain great hailstones, fire and brimstone upon that army. That's marks the seventh trumpet and third woe timing.

So the Rev.12:6-17 verses serve as another condensed view of which trumpets? I think only the 6th and 7th trumpets, and 2nd and 3rd woes. The only time I can figure for the 5th trumpet in this, is that first example of 1260 days the woman fled into the wilderness, per Rev.12:6. I've always considered that period of Rev.12:6 as just a pointer to the later 14th verse of "a time, and times, and half a time" (3.5 years). But now I'm think Rev.12:6 is about the first half of the symbolic "one week" of Dan.9, and the Rev.12:14 time is about the last half, showing the actual time of persecution by the dragon.
.

 

[whirlwind]

What about:

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Lightning
G796
From G797; lightning;
G797
Probably from G792; to flash as lightning: - lighten, shine.
G792
Probably from the base of G4766; a star

Stars rise out of the East. Maybe his coming will be like a star coming out of the East and not lightning. :o Lol. ;) :D

Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

:o :P

I see the lightning from the east to the west being about Christ in us...all of us around the world. At the time of the lighting the "change" has happened and we are in our spiritual bodies, our "lightning like appearance."

• 1 Thessalonians 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

 

[whirlwind]

The thread was about what lighting, stars and fire represent...and that is a spiritual being.

In zeal for the religion of the fathers, murder had spiritually bound Saul/Paul in the 'bottomless pit' till a journey to Damascus, where he was struck with lightning casting out the demon of murder under which he was bound...setting Saul/Paul free to follow Jesus Christ, the Son of God!

• Job 36:32 "He covers His hands with the lightning,
  And commands it to strike the mark. NASU

Excellent verse Ret! In considering it I thought...we are His lightning, even now. He uses us, leads and guides us, to strike the mark...the mark being whatever soul He wants to be reached. When we allow His Spirit to reach others through us, through His Words that we teach, then they, as Paul....receive sight. So many love the Father but they, as Paul, haven't truly been touched by the Spirit of truth. They are misled as he was, as we were...until the Spirit teaches.

Then the struggle is to grow in that truth. To allow Him to feed us stronger and stronger meat. To become a powerful bolt of lightning!

 

[whirlwind]

Found your thread whirlwind,

Something I believe Ret brought up I wanted to bring into consideration with the thread...

I understand what you're saying in relation to Rev.9:1 with the 5th trumpet. And isn't Satan's spirit already working on earth today?

Yes, I believe the fifth trumpet has sounded. What I couldn't reconcile was the locust army being released but your explanation about the stages of the locust made it clearer.

I believe per the Book of John that Satan was cast out of this world when Christ defeated him de facto on the cross. Hebrews 2:14 tells us Christ came in the flesh so through death He would defeat both death and the devil. Later in John 14:30 our Lord said "Hereafter, I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me." I think that refers to his being cast down to this earth per Rev.12:7-9.

He does say...."through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;" [Hebrews 2:14]. But that destruction doesn't happen until the end of the millennium....

• Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

The crucifixion of Christ gave us power over death but death himself wasn't destroyed....yet. You could be right and Satan could well have been cast down already as shown in [Rev.12:7-9] or it could be as I believe for where Christ said, "the prince of this world cometh," could be referring to the fifth trump and his spirit on earth, his spirit in his men.

Note more of the flow of those Rev.12 verses...

Rev 12:7-13
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

There's some major pointers in these verses which reveal the timing. This is one of the first ones underlined. A later verse is going to show us what Satan was doing in Heaven just before this casting out.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

When Satan and his angels are cast out of Heaven, right then comes Salvation... and the power of Christ Jesus... in Heaven, meaning Christ's Salvation in the Heavenly, but not on earth. Notice what Satan was doing while his place was in Heaven. He stood as the accuser of our brethren, accusing God's people before God, much like what Satan did in Heaven with accussing Job before God's Throne.

Question: would that Salvation and power of Christ have been possible there if that was about Satan's first rebellion and falling as lightning from Heaven? No, for Christ Jesus had not yet come to die on the cross when Satan first rebelled. So that's the first major time marker, pointing that event for at least a time after Christ's death and resurrection.

I agree. Excellent point.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Now we're given a picture of the saints that overcome Satan by the Blood of Christ Jesus. And the time of a Testimony for Christ is given along with that. It's a very strong tribulation timing marker.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Rejoicing begins in Heaven, but 'woes' begin upon the earth, and a warning to those upon the earth when that happens. There's a marker to the 3 woe periods, the events of the last 3 trumpets. That also includes a marker to the seventh king of Rev.17:10 who is to continue "a short space", meaning a short space of time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
(KJV)

The "woman" of Rev.12:1 is a symbol for Israel, from Genesis 37:9 about Joseph's dream. That is Satan (dragon) cast to the earth with his angels to persecute God's people...

Yes, the woman is Israel. The man child are the very elect, the saints.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

There's that 1260 days of verse 6 of this chapter, and also the 3.5 years of the Book of Daniel, also the 42 months of Rev.11 and 13.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

Remember Rev.9 we were told the locust army's power was in their mouths, i.e., deception caused by lies from the dragon, working like an overflowing flood, i.e., even like a Satanic version of Noah's flood using lies. But the earth protects God's people during that period of the flood of deception by the dragon. That marks a sixth trumpet and second woe timing.

How does the earth do that? Earth represents mankind...how do they help? I too see this as the 6th trump..when Satan is here.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
(KJV)

Because of the earth protecting God's people (the woman), the dragon becomes angry in final, and goes to make war upon the saints, meaning the undeceived. I think this also is a marker for a certain passage in Ezekiel 38...

Ezek 38:9-12
9 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.
10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:
11 And thou shalt say, "I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land."
(KJV)

And when Satan tries to make that war upon the saints, that's when God says further in Ezekiel 38 that fury will come up in His Face, and He will cause a great shaking in the land, and every WALL will fall to the ground at His Presence. And God will rain great hailstones, fire and brimstone upon that army. That's marks the seventh trumpet and third woe timing.

So the Rev.12:6-17 verses serve as another condensed view of which trumpets? I think only the 6th and 7th trumpets, and 2nd and 3rd woes. The only time I can figure for the 5th trumpet in this, is that first example of 1260 days the woman fled into the wilderness, per Rev.12:6. I've always considered that period of Rev.12:6 as just a pointer to the later 14th verse of "a time, and times, and half a time" (3.5 years). But now I'm think Rev.12:6 is about the first half of the symbolic "one week" of Dan.9, and the Rev.12:14 time is about the last half, showing the actual time of persecution by the dragon.
.

The 3 1/2 years when the witnesses testify and the woman is in the wilderness I see as the last 3 1/2 years of this age...and I think we're wandering in that wilderness right now. It is the last part of the fifth trump. When the sixth trump sounds it begins the five month period of the great tribulation.

 

[Ret]

...we are His lightning, even now. He uses us, leads and guides us, to strike the mark...the mark being whatever soul He wants to be reached. When we allow His Spirit to reach others through us, through His Words that we teach, then they, as Paul....receive sight. So many love the Father but they, as Paul, haven't truly been touched by the Spirit of truth. They are misled as he was, as we were...until the Spirit teaches.

Then the struggle is to grow in that truth. To allow Him to feed us stronger and stronger meat. To become a powerful bolt of lightning!

Sounds like modern day Elijah, who was very zealous for the Lord in the days of Ahab.

• 1 Kings 19:11-12
  11 And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:
  
  12 And after the earthquake a fire;
  but the LORD was not in the fire:
  and after the fire a still small voice. KJV

WW...You can be the 'bolt of lightning', I'll stay with the 'still small voice', ...

 

[researcher]

What about:

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Lightning
G796
From G797; lightning;
G797
Probably from G792; to flash as lightning: - lighten, shine.
G792
Probably from the base of G4766; a star

Stars rise out of the East. Maybe his coming will be like a star coming out of the East and not lightning. :o Lol. ;) :D

Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

:o :P

That would mean that he came in a flash. (In an instant.)

You mean, like a thief? Lol ;)

 

[researcher]

What about:

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Lightning
G796
From G797; lightning;
G797
Probably from G792; to flash as lightning: - lighten, shine.
G792
Probably from the base of G4766; a star

Stars rise out of the East. Maybe his coming will be like a star coming out of the East and not lightning. :o Lol. ;) :D

Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

:o :P

I see the lightning from the east to the west being about Christ in us...all of us around the world. At the time of the lighting the "change" has happened and we are in our spiritual bodies, our "lightning like appearance."

• 1 Thessalonians 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Well I suppose. Although

Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Mar 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

He is seen first, then afterwards gathers the elect. lol

 

[whirlwind]

...we are His lightning, even now. He uses us, leads and guides us, to strike the mark...the mark being whatever soul He wants to be reached. When we allow His Spirit to reach others through us, through His Words that we teach, then they, as Paul....receive sight. So many love the Father but they, as Paul, haven't truly been touched by the Spirit of truth. They are misled as he was, as we were...until the Spirit teaches.

Then the struggle is to grow in that truth. To allow Him to feed us stronger and stronger meat. To become a powerful bolt of lightning!

Sounds like modern day Elijah, who was very zealous for the Lord in the days of Ahab.

• 1 Kings 19:11-12
  11 And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:
  
  12 And after the earthquake a fire;
  but the LORD was not in the fire:
  and after the fire a still small voice. KJV

WW...You can be the 'bolt of lightning', I'll stay with the 'still small voice', ...

The "still small voice" is the bolt of lightning. :yes The power, the Light, is in His voice.