Biblical Mary!

[Bible]

Biblical Mary:

Mother of God Lk 1:43

Immaculate conception (sinless) gen 3:15 enmity or total war none of satans works are found in Mary
Also Lk 1:28 full of grace lk 1:49 great things plural (immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus) Rev12:1 woman clothed with the sun. Immaculate purity

Lk 1:30 found favor with God (the salvation lost by Adam) mother of our salvation Lk 2:30

Perpetual Virgin Isa 7:14 matt 1:21
Lk 1:31-34

 

[WIP]

Perpetual Virgin Isa 7:14 matt 1:21
Lk 1:31-34

The verses you present are not indicative of Mary's perpetual virginity. They only indicate that she was a virgin when she bore our Lord. In fact, Matthew 1:25 clearly states that her husband, Joseph, did not know her UNTIL she brought forth her first-born son, Jesus. It doesn't say Joseph never knew her ever but only until Jesus was born. This strongly implies that Joseph and Mary got together and consummated their marriage at some point afterwards.

I was a virgin until I knew my wife. Does this statement mean that I am still a virgin? Note, I have fathered three children.

 

[Bible]

Thanks for you’re imput

it’s important to know that the Christian church always taught the perpetual virginity of Mary, even the quote reformers see more info below

 

[Bible]

Perpetual Virginity of Mary!

Mary conceived "without any detriment to her virginity, which remained inviolate even after his birth" (apostolic Council of the Lateran, 649) with the jurisdictional authority of Peter and the apostles in holy council! Matt 16:18 18:18 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20 bound on earth bound in heaven!

The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!

And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!

Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)

Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”

Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.

(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)

Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

(The Bible says only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary)

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(A son singular) (only Jesus is savior)

Lk 1:28 Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee!

Blessed art thou amongst all women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
(The fruit of Her womb is blessed and holy)

Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
(A son, singular)

Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s a vow of perpetual virginity, She refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God and mother of our savior if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Her son is God)

Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!

First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!

The Bible says Joseph a just and therefore a chaste man, it does not say he has gone into Mary anywhere in scripture, 2 Sam 12:24 And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him. Never says this about a Joseph, for He was full of fear and reverence for Her immaculate purity and holiness! Especially after hearing from an angel that her child was of the Holy Spirit!



Brothers and sisters of Jesus?

They are not the children of Mary!

Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)

James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3

In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.

Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..

Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.

The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They had 4 mother’s, These may be brothers but they are simply not the children of One mother and the brothers of Jesus are not the children of Mary!

Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!

Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

Is Mary the mother of James?
If you mean the Blessed Virgin Mary then no. Her sister-in-law, Mary of Clopas, was the wife of Alphaeus (St. Joseph's brother), and mother of Simon, Joseph, and the apostles Judas Thaddeus, and James (the Less, brother of the Lord): Jesus' cousins.

The "sisters" of Jesus refer to women disciples.

Salome, or Mary Salome, was the wife of Zebedee, and mother of apostles John (the beloved), and James (the greater).


Regarding Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3, two of the four "brethren" are James and Judas of Alphaeus (cf. Mat. 10:2-3, Lk. 6:15-16, Act. 1:13). The third, Joseph, is identified in Mk. 15:40 as the brother of James of Alphaeus. The fourth, Simon, is identified in Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3 as the brother of Joseph, James, and Judas of Alphaeus. Therefore, all four are were the sons of Alphaeus, not St. Joseph and the Blessed Virgin Mary.

When Jesus was twelve they went up to Jerusalem, the holy family, Joseph, Mary, and Jesus. Where are the brothers and sisters?

Jesus on the cross gives His mother to John, why? Why not James or a brother? Perhaps the law of Moses requires a mother to be given to the next oldest son? Because he was an only Son!
Only begotten of the Father, only begotten of the Mother.

Only God can be born of a Virgin-mother!

“You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord’s body, that court of the eternal king” (ancient writer)

Martin Luther

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

John Calvin

(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)

Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])

John Wesley

‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).


St Augustine, Sermons 186.1 (early 5th century):

“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).

“It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?” (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).

 

[Bible]

“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).

St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III.28.3 (13th century):

"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children.

For, in the first place, this is derogatory to Christ's perfection: for as He is in His Godhead the Only-Begotten of the Father, being thus His Son in every respect perfect, so it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring.

“Secondly, this error is an insult to the Holy Ghost, whose "shrine" was the virginal womb, wherein He had formed the flesh of Christ: wherefore it was unbecoming that it should be desecrated by intercourse with man.

“Thirdly, this is derogatory to the dignity and holiness of God's Mother: for thus she would seem to be most ungrateful, were she not content with such a Son; and were she, of her own accord, by carnal intercourse to forfeit that virginity which had been miraculously preserved in her.

“Fourthly, it would be tantamount to an imputation of extreme presumption in Joseph, to assume that he attempted to violate her whom by the angel's revelation he knew to have conceived by the Holy Ghost.

“We must therefore simply assert that the Mother of God, as she was a virgin in conceiving Him and a virgin in giving Him birth, did she remain a virgin ever afterwards."

The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!

 

[WIP]

Thanks for you’re imput

it’s important to know that the Christian church always taught the perpetual virginity of Mary, even the quote reformers see more info below

I understand. This reminds of how many times when something was called into question at my employment and the response was, "That's how we've always done it!"

If what the church has always taught is in contrast with Scripture, should it not be reconsidered? Both can't be correct, right?

 

[jaybo]

I simply don't understand the thoughts about Mary by some. She was a teenager selected by God to give birth to Jesus and, along with Joseph, raise Him until He went on His own. Nothing more than that.

It is my strong belief that there is a need in some cultures to elevate Mary, and by extension, motherhood, way beyond what the Bible says about her. There is no indication that she was fulfilling the role that those in matriarchal cultures -- including the Catholic church -- of being quasi-divine and is right behind Jesus in heaven advising Him and/or telling Him what to do for those who ask her.

It is really, really wrong to take some earthly (non-Biblical) doctrine based on one's culture and apply that as some universal truth revealed by God.

 

[jaybo]

“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).

St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III.28.3 (13th century):

"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children.

For, in the first place, this is derogatory to Christ's perfection: for as He is in His Godhead the Only-Begotten of the Father, being thus His Son in every respect perfect, so it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring.

“Secondly, this error is an insult to the Holy Ghost, whose "shrine" was the virginal womb, wherein He had formed the flesh of Christ: wherefore it was unbecoming that it should be desecrated by intercourse with man.

“Thirdly, this is derogatory to the dignity and holiness of God's Mother: for thus she would seem to be most ungrateful, were she not content with such a Son; and were she, of her own accord, by carnal intercourse to forfeit that virginity which had been miraculously preserved in her.

“Fourthly, it would be tantamount to an imputation of extreme presumption in Joseph, to assume that he attempted to violate her whom by the angel's revelation he knew to have conceived by the Holy Ghost.

“We must therefore simply assert that the Mother of God, as she was a virgin in conceiving Him and a virgin in giving Him birth, did she remain a virgin ever afterwards."

The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!

a) I believe the Bible, not the (invented) doctrines of some denomination.
b) Jesus had brothers. Matthew 12:46, "While Jesus was still speaking to the crowds, his mother and brothers came and stood outside, asking to speak to him." Where did these siblings come from if not from Mary's womb?
c) Where does something like "it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring" come from? Certainly not the Bible.

 

[Bible]

I understand. This reminds of how many times when something was called into question at my employment and the response was, "That's how we've always done it!"

If what the church has always taught is in contrast with Scripture, should it not be reconsidered? Both can't be correct, right?

The church wrote the NT and cannot teach error jn 16:13

 

[Bible]

I simply don't understand the thoughts about Mary by some. She was a teenager selected by God to give birth to Jesus and, along with Joseph, raise Him until He went on His own. Nothing more than that.

It is my strong belief that there is a need in some cultures to elevate Mary, and by extension, motherhood, way beyond what the Bible says about her. There is no indication that she was fulfilling the role that those in matriarchal cultures -- including the Catholic church -- of being quasi-divine and is right behind Jesus in heaven advising Him and/or telling Him what to do for those who ask her.

It is really, really wrong to take some earthly (non-Biblical) doctrine based on one's culture and apply that as some universal truth revealed by God.

Please be specific

 

[Bible]

a) I believe the Bible, not the (invented) doctrines of some denomination.
b) Jesus had brothers. Matthew 12:46, "While Jesus was still speaking to the crowds, his mother and brothers came and stood outside, asking to speak to him." Where did these siblings come from if not from Mary's womb?
c) Where does something like "it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring" come from? Certainly not the Bible.

Where does the Bible say it must be in the Bible? Acts 2:42 the kept the doctrine of the apostles

 

[Bible]

a) I believe the Bible, not the (invented) doctrines of some denomination.
b) Jesus had brothers. Matthew 12:46, "While Jesus was still speaking to the crowds, his mother and brothers came and stood outside, asking to speak to him." Where did these siblings come from if not from Mary's womb?
c) Where does something like "it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring" come from? Certainly not the Bible.

There are no denominations in the Bible only one true church founded by Christ on peter and the apostles Matt 16:18 18:18 jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20

 

[Hopeful]

Biblical Mary:

Mother of God Lk 1:43

Immaculate conception (sinless) gen 3:15 enmity or total war none of satans works are found in Mary
Also Lk 1:28 full of grace lk 1:49 great things plural (immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus) Rev12:1 woman clothed with the sun. Immaculate purity

Lk 1:30 found favor with God (the salvation lost by Adam) mother of our salvation Lk 2:30

Perpetual Virgin Isa 7:14 matt 1:21
Lk 1:31-34

God didn't need a mother, as He has always existed.
Jesus, the Word, needed a mother in order to be manifested in the flesh.

 

[jaybo]

Do you always contradict yourself?
There are no denominations in the Bible only one true church founded by Christ on peter and the apostles Matt 16:18 18:18 jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20

No, I don't contradict myself at all.

Apparently you aren't aware of the number of churches that existed in the times of the apostles. I listed them elsewhere so I'm not going to repost the same information. Aside from the churches that were the recipients of the various epistles there are also those listed in Revelation.

I am not going to repeat the same information just for you. However, this should start you on the right path: "Now I mean this, that each of you is saying, “I am with Paul,” or “I am with Apollos,” or “I am with Cephas,” or “I am with Christ.” Is Christ divided? Paul wasn’t crucified for you, was he? Or were you in fact baptized in the name of Paul?" 1 Corinthians 1:12-14

Clearly your statement that "there are no denominations in the Bible only one true church" is clearly not biblical.

 

[for_his_glory]

The Catholic doctrine of the eternal virginity of Mary is not supported by scripture. They claim these other children were from a former marriage of Joseph from a former wife, but yet no Biblical foundation, nor that Mary, after marrying Joseph remain a virgin. Joseph only kept her as a virgin until the birth of Christ.

Mary the mother of Jesus, wife of Joseph and also the mother of James and Joses, Juda and Simon. Plus unnamed sisters.

Matthew 13:55-56; Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

Gal 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.
Gal 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.
(James, the half brother of Jesus, is also a disciple, but not one of the original 12, known as James the less not to be confused with James the greater being the son of Zebedee. Notice is says the Lord's brother)

Jesus had four half brothers, James (called the less), Joses/Joseph, Juda/Jude and Simon and some sisters, but it's not known how many sisters he had or what their names were. The reason they were all half brothers an sisters is because Joseph was not the biological father of Jesus.

 

[for_his_glory]

Three mothers named Mary:

1. Mary the mother of Jesus, wife of Joseph and also the mother of James and Joses, Juda and Simon. Plus unnamed sisters.

2. Jesus mother's sister named Mary (Salome) also known as Salome the wife of Cleophas and then Zebedee and the mother of James and John (two of the twelve disciples). Salome is not to be confused with Salome the daughter of Herodias.
(Note: Mary Salome married Alphaeus, also known as Cleophas, and three of their sons were Apostles being Jude, Thaddeuse Simon the Zealot. Later she married Zebedee and was the mother of James and John.)

3. And there with the other two Mary's was Mary Magdalene as all three witnessed the crucifixion of Jesus.

 

[jaybo]

Three mothers named Mary:

1. Mary the mother of Jesus, wife of Joseph and also the mother of James and Joses, Juda and Simon. Plus unnamed sisters.

2. Jesus mother's sister named Mary (Salome) also known as Salome the wife of Cleophas and then Zebedee and the mother of James and John (two of the twelve disciples). Salome is not to be confused with Salome the daughter of Herodias.
(Note: Mary Salome married Alphaeus, also known as Cleophas, and three of their sons were Apostles being Jude, Thaddeuse Simon the Zealot. Later she married Zebedee and was the mother of James and John.)

3. And there with the other two Mary's was Mary Magdalene as all three witnessed the crucifixion of Jesus.

Actually, none of them were named "Mary", which is an Anglo-Saxon name. They were actually named "Miriam".

 

[for_his_glory]

The church wrote the NT and cannot teach error jn 16:13 maybe you’re blinded by fundamentalism which is not biblical

What church are you referring to as the church did not write the Bible as it was God that gave to the Prophets, Jesus and the Apostles what to speak and to write in letters to the church's that many centuries later became what we call the Holy Bible.

John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
John 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

2Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[for_his_glory]

“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).

St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III.28.3 (13th century):

"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children.

For, in the first place, this is derogatory to Christ's perfection: for as He is in His Godhead the Only-Begotten of the Father, being thus His Son in every respect perfect, so it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring.

“Secondly, this error is an insult to the Holy Ghost, whose "shrine" was the virginal womb, wherein He had formed the flesh of Christ: wherefore it was unbecoming that it should be desecrated by intercourse with man.

“Thirdly, this is derogatory to the dignity and holiness of God's Mother: for thus she would seem to be most ungrateful, were she not content with such a Son; and were she, of her own accord, by carnal intercourse to forfeit that virginity which had been miraculously preserved in her.

“Fourthly, it would be tantamount to an imputation of extreme presumption in Joseph, to assume that he attempted to violate her whom by the angel's revelation he knew to have conceived by the Holy Ghost.

“We must therefore simply assert that the Mother of God, as she was a virgin in conceiving Him and a virgin in giving Him birth, did she remain a virgin ever afterwards."

The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!

words without scriptural support!!! Do you really think we are just going to take mans word for what they say.

 

[for_his_glory]

Thanks for you’re imput

it’s important to know that the Christian church always taught the perpetual virginity of Mary, even the quote reformers see more info below

There you have it "What the Christian church teaches" as even the Catholic church calls itself Christian, but yet refuses scripture.