[_ Old Earth _] Bill Nye v AIG Creation Museum

[Free]

I thought it was a good debate but wondered why Ken didn't get more scientific than he did.

Probably because he's not what would be considered an actual scientist, from what I have found.

 

[jeff77]

Does Bill Nye who is an atheist say anything about evolution proving the position that there is no God?

 

[turnorburn]

i wasn't aware of that Jeff.. after all these years he reminded me of Mr. Wizard we listened to as children..

then i found this statement..

Now we come to “Bill Nye: The Science Guy” who slams creationists who believe that God created the heavens, the earth, and human beings...

tob

 

[Barbarian]

In 1999, Stephen Gordon, founder of the furniture company Restoration Hardware, teamed up with Renee Whitney, general manager of a toy company called Wild Goose, to recreate the chemistry kits marketed by "Mr. Wizard" in the past. However, they found that most of the items in the original kits are now illegal to sell, and the resulting product they ended up marketing contained just 5 chemicals ("including laundry starch, which was tagged with an ominous warning: HANDLE CAREFULLY. NOT EXPECTED TO BE A HEALTH HAZARD").[18]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Herbert

So things change. I was able, as a 12yo kid, to walk into a pharmacy and get the two components for gunpowder that I could not make, no questions asked. Some of the stuff we did back then would probably get a kid sent away, today. Pity. One of my buds rigged up a capacitor/squirtgun gadget that got him some fear if not respect, from the neighborhood bully. The inspiration was an article in Popular Science. I wonder how that would play today. Another took out his parent's commode, doing a risky experiment, which he thought he could just flush down the toilet if it got out of hand. I lost my chemistry set, after a successful attempt to make a good red flare; I tested it on the balcony of the house, and my father, seeing the red glow in the yard, went out, and assumed the house was on fire. The only lithium I could get was lithium stearate, and it was a bit smokey.

 

[turnorburn]

Ha! look what i found..

This is the Official Website of Television’s One & Only “MR.WIZARD”... started and originally maintained by Don Herbert and carried on by the dedicated staff of Mr.Wizard Studios, Inc. Don conceived, wrote, starred, and produced the NBC hit series “Watch Mr.Wizard in 1951 and became known as “America’s Favorite Science Teacher” by millions of admiring viewers for 14 consecutive years.

His second major TV series “Mr.Wizard’s World’ first aired on MTV’s Nickelodeon channel in 1983. Running consistently for 78 consecutive episodes this series established Mr.Wizard as another household name to a new generation of fans.

http://www.mrwizardstudios.com/

tob

 

[Milk-Drops]

Does Bill Nye who is an atheist say anything about evolution proving the position that there is no God?

No, for the most part Mr. nye doesn't have ny problem with the concept of god but does take issue with the creationist lobby in the US.

 

[Sparkey]

No, for the most part Mr. nye doesn't have ny problem with the concept of god but does take issue with the creationist lobby in the US.

His problem is not overtly against God. The issue he takes is clothed in his care for how we educate our children. The problem he has is with Christians who do not deny the flood.

It is as Peter prophesied. The fact that God once flooded the earth (the Noahic Flood) would be denied (2 Peter 3:5-6) by many. The Bible tells us why.

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

The bible tells us of those who teach that Jesus is just a man, that He is not alive, and will not return. They ask, "Where is the promise of his coming," and they continue their line of reasoning saying that, "all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation."

That's what they do. The "WHY" they do it is shown to us through Peter's prophecy too. They want to deny the coming judgment and in order to do that they must deny and remain ignorant of the fact that the world perished, being overflowed by water.

The Denial (de-NYE-al) of the Flood:

View attachment 4059

Does it make sense to the "Science Guy" ? ---> that's not the right question. What does the Word of Truth say about it? Shall we too remain ignorant of the meaning of the flood? Jesus shall return and we shall be judged. Salvation isn't about the Age of the Earth. It's about our trust in God and belief on His Son.

 

[turnorburn]

You mean Mr. Nye “Bill Nye: The Science Guy” who slams creationists who believe that God created the heavens, the earth, and human beings...

Do you know how ridicules that sounds in a Christian forum when its been said creationists cause people to lose their faith.. that's nothing more than a lie out of hell.. People accused Jesus of having a devil some thought him crazy.. Proof is that what a Christian is supposed to provide for an unbelieving generation? Listen to Jesus when He says..

Matthew 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

But you keep on about proof and evidence all the same.. Gods word said that..

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Every Christian that I've met believes He did it in 6 days and they/i believe it because it is written.. mix that with faith and its easy to understand..

Lose their faith? Bah!

tob

 

[Milk-Drops]

You mean Mr. Nye “Bill Nye: The Science Guy” who slams creationists who believe that God created the heavens, the earth, and human beings...

Yeah, because I read more then just titles of articles. I actually read the words of the person involved instead of just the words of the person writing the article.

Do you know how ridicules that sounds in a Christian forum

Doesn't sound ridiculous at all. I wasn't aware you believed that in order for Christian forums to function, they had to take articles at face value.

But you keep on about proof and evidence all the same..

And you keep going on with long winded misrepresentations that tells me I shouldn't trust you.

Every Christian that I've met believes He did it in 6 days and they/i believe it because it is written.. mix that with faith and its easy to understand..

Good for them.

Lose their faith? Bah!

tob

I've seen it happen multiple times. Even to me. Its amazing how your entire world crashes down and how you have a large feeling of distrust towards people you used to hold in authority when you actually read about history, other religions, Biology, chemistry, etc. and find out the specific group you were a part of spent a large amount of time misrepresenting arguments and playing games. Do all Christians or people who believe in Creation do this? Nope, does the majority of the websites, authorities, and organizations in creation science do this? Yep.

 

[Barbarian]

Do you know how ridicules that sounds in a Christian forum when its been said creationists cause people to lose their faith.. that's nothing more than a lie out of hell..

Documented fact. I can show you a personal account by a man who got his degree from the ICR graduate school, and nearly became an atheist when he realized what he had been taught was false. Some of his fellow graduates weren't so lucky.

Gen. 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

All Christians know that. It's just that most of us also accept the way He did it, and YE creationists don't.

Every Christian that I've met believes He did it in 6 days and they/i believe it because it is written.

Most of the Christians I've met don't think so. The vast majority of the world's Christians accept that evolution is consistent with Christian faith.

 

[turnorburn]

Barbarian said:

The vast majority of the world's Christians accept that evolution is consistent with Christian faith.

that's no surprise just more signs of the times..

tob

 

[Barbarian]

that's no surprise just more signs of the times..

If so, "the times" go back to about 570. That's when St. Augustine pointed out in De Genesi ad litteram that one could not logically conclude that the "yom" in Genesis meant literal days.

A literal 6-day creation week has never been the orthodox interpretation.

 

[Sparkey]

If so, "the times" go back to about 570. That's when St. Augustine pointed out in De Genesi ad litteram that one could not logically conclude that the "yom" in Genesis meant literal days.

A literal 6-day creation week has never been the orthodox interpretation.

There is some dispute regarding your last statement. Seems to me that it depends on who you talk to.

Paul James-Griffiths cites Ibn Ezra’s (c. 1089–1164) commentary on Genesis stating categorically, ‘One day refers to the movement of the sphere.’ According to the James-Griffiths article, "Creation days and Orthodox Jewish tradition":

The ‘sphere’ referred to the celestial sphere of the pre-Galilean Ptolemaic cosmology, universally accepted in the Middle Ages. This is further proof against the idea that the Bible or its followers promoted a ‘flat earth’.3 But now we would say that the earth was rotating relative to the light created on Day 1.

The footnote makes sure we get the point when it says, ‘The heavenly sphere made one revolution. The sun was not yet …’.4 This shows that they had no problem with the sun being created on the fourth day, as opposed to ‘appearing’ as many long-agers, e.g. Hugh Ross, claim. There is a perfectly good word for appear (ra’ah), e.g. when the dry land ‘appeared’ as the waters gathered in one place on Day 3 (Genesis 1:9). But it is not used here.

Footnotes:

1. 3. (‘flat earth’.3) See also the articles under, Does the Bible really teach a flat earth?
   
   1. 4. (The sun was not yet …’.4 )Ezra, I., Commentary on the Pentateuch, Genesis (Bereshit), translated and annotated by Strickman H.N. and Silver A.M., Menorah Publishing Co., New York, USA, p. 33, 1999.

Your unqualified statement regarding "orthodox interpretations" contradicts the fact that many orthodox Jews believe in a literal 6 Day Creation. What evidence do you have for your broad statement?

 

[Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
If so, "the times" go back to about 570. That's when St. Augustine pointed out in De Genesi ad litteram that one could not logically conclude that the "yom" in Genesis meant literal days.

A literal 6-day creation week has never been the orthodox interpretation.

There is some dispute regarding your last statement.

It hardly needs to be said that the most influential Christian theologian for Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant denominations asserted that the "days" of Genesis were not literal. And it's quite telling that no one took him to task for saying so.

Seems to me that it depends on who you talk to.

There's no way to make a literal Genesis the orthodox position, when St. Augustine himself showed that it cannot be logically possible. The fact I cited forever removes literal Genesis from orthodoxy. It doesn't mean that those who interpret Genesis to be literal are unorthodox; it just means that their particular belief has never been the orthodox interpretation. It remains an open question, theologically, and always has been.

Your unqualified statement regarding "orthodox interpretations" contradicts the fact that many orthodox Jews believe in a literal 6 Day Creation.

And many do not. Hence no orthodoxy to either position.

 

[turnorburn]

Barbarian said:

A literal 6-day creation week has never been the orthodox interpretation.

By orthodox you mean who?

tob

 

[Barbarian]

Christians. For most of the world's Christians, the question is open, and always has been so. At least since 570 AD or so.
It was never the consensus of Christians that the days of Genesis were literal 24 hour ones.

 

[turnorburn]

Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons say they are Christians is that what you mean because like i said before all the Christians i know believe in a 6 day creation..

tob

 

[Barbarian]

Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons say they are Christians

So do creationists. Some of them are. But of course, most of the world's Christians acknowledge that evolution is consistent with Christianity.

is that what you mean because like i said before all the Christians i know believe in a 6 day creation..

You know, the Jehovah's witnesses say that all Christians believe Jesus has already returned. But I think they've assumed their particular sect are the only Christians.

 

[turnorburn]

maybe it would be easier to understand if i said people i know that know Jesus accept the 6 day creation.. two Mormons came to the door the other day neither one knew Jesus all they knew was church doctrine..

tob

 

[Barbarian]

Turns out, most of the people who know Jesus don't care one way or the other about whether it was literal or not, but they do acknowledge that Genesis is consistent with evolution.

Most of them. It doesn't mean that rejecting evolution means you don't know Jesus. But if you think that you have to re-interpret Genesis as six literal days, in order to know Him, then you probably should get to know Him better.