birth control...is it Biblical?

[Guest]

Re: reply

Does anyone see anything wrong with oral sex within marriage?



May God bless, Golfjack

What does this have to do with the OP?

 

[aj830]

Does anyone see anything wrong with oral sex within marriage?

What does this have to do with the OP?

It has to deal with contraception per se because it is a way of getting sexual pleasure without having it lead to the seed actually entering the woman. I would say it would be a problem if it did not lead to intercourse but instead "spilling of seed" and was just for the sake of sexual gratification.

 

[Free]

Then why did Onan receive death? Deuteronomy 25:7-10 clearly states the steps to follow and the punishment for someone who refuses to give his brother's wife children. Onan received none of these steps and God immeaditley took his life. So if, as you stated, Onan's only sin was against his brother by not giving him children then God gave him an unjust punishment. However, God gave his punishment for the act of spilling his seed.

Onan received death from God and not from the general assembly, did he not? Does God not have the right to decide a punishment?

You are going far beyond what this verse is saying. You are approaching this verse with a preconceived notion that birth control is wrong when this verse clearly does not make any definitive connection between the spilling of seed and the death of Onan.

I'm quite certain that I can find other passages regarding other sins mentioned in Deuteronomy where the punishment is not as stated in Deut.

But its a waste of sperm if you don't do it for the purpose of multiplying. Although it isn't always fruitful the intent matters.

That is just plain silly and ignorant of the full intent of sex between a man and wife.

 

[destiny]

:o I'm with Free ....I would hate for some of ya' all to be my decision makers in certain areas. Sheesh!! :o :o

 

[Guest]

It has to deal with contraception per se because it is a way of getting sexual pleasure without having it lead to the seed actually entering the woman. I would say it would be a problem if it did not lead to intercourse but instead "spilling of seed" and was just for the sake of sexual gratification.

Is the purpose of sex between and husband and wife merely for the procreation of the species? Or is there more to sexual union between husband and wife?

If a husband and wife have intercourse that does not result in pregnancy could you not argue that the 'seed was spilt'?

Sexual gratification between a husband and wife is perfectly fine! Paul writes about it in 1 Cor 7:5-6

Husband and wives were to "stop depriving one another" so that Satan would not tempt them because of "their lack of self-control".

Verse 9 Paul says that it is better to marry, than to "burn with passion."

 

[Imagican]

Did no one even read my post?



Support this from Scripture. Support your argument that "Be fruitful and replenish the Earth" means that we are to never use birth control.

I find the idea utterly absurd that every time a man and wife have sex that there should be potential for procreation. I believe that God gives us a brain so that we can make prudent decisions, including whether or not it is time to try and procreate.


For everyone who is against birth control, please provide even one verse from Scripture that condemns it. Not that silence means it's okay, I just want to see if anyone has any scriptural justification for not believing in birth control.

Since you find this idea SO absurd, EXPLAIN to the good people here WHY God did NOT offer some form of birth control for the PREVIOUS ten thousand years?

There IS Biblical reference to a man attempting to use the ONLY physical means of birth control. He DIED for denying his wife the oportunity to conceive.

Free, I have suspected this of you since our FIRST encounters. Have you so completely 'bought into' this world and IT'S thinking? Are you a 'new age' Christian that BELIEVES that if EVERYONE is doing it, it's OK. And what WONDEROUS things will YOU do in the 'name of Christ'?

It's either a matter of God's will or OUR OWN. We have been TOLD to follow God's will and NOT our OWN. For our OWN is carnal in nature and can ONLY lead to DEATH.

How many Christians BELIEVE that they can follow their OWN WILL instead of that of God and STILL consider themselves to BE Christians? Oh how deceptive we can TRULY be; ESPECIALLY to ourselves.

I will leave you with this;

FREE, what if it was God's will that your son were to START and lead a church. Yet YOUR will was NOT to have this son. Now, will you still insist that using birth control to rebel against the will of God is OK? And if you don't understand what has been offered so far, then it would be impossible for you to state, (and have ME believe), that you could POSSIBLY be so IN TOUCH with The Spirit that IT would 'let you know' what God's plan is.

What I hear here is PERSONAL GREED and 'self will' speaking out AGAINST the Spirit. ''What if we are not READY for children?" WHAT? What I hear is 'let's get married so it's OK to have sex'. Boy have some of you folks got it REALLY confused.

It appears you have allowed some 'speaker' convince you that sex IS for fun and bought into it whole heartedly. Sex is NOT for FUN folks. It is a means of procreation that IS able to be enjoyed, but it's PURPOSE was not for US TO HAVE FUN. It's for BONDING between a man and woman IN LOVE. THIS IS how a man and woman BECOME ONE. Anything OTHER than this is fornication. If a man has sex with a wife that he does NOT LOVE, there is NOT difference between this and fornication. For marriage cannot have ANY meaning to God WITHOUT there being love involved.

Once again, we have those that choose to 'pick and choose' what they WANT concerning the Word. At LEAST be honest with yourselves. For there can be NO conformation without TRUTH being present FIRST. There can be NO Christian without 'truth' and 'conformity'. Only 'play christians', (those that like to 'play the game' of being a Christian).

MEC

MEC

 

[Imagican]

Should a man and women who are both crack heads be on birth control or should they populate the world with crack babies????

What if a man with aids got married and his wife knew he had aids, should they have babies?

What about families that can't even support themselves and go and have 12 babies?

While I have never thought about this, I do not believe in anyway that birth control is a sin....Even abstaining from sex during the womens fertile time is a form of birth control...If the man pulles out before he ejaculates that is a form of birth control...

So Unless one is prepared to have a baby every nine months for the next 20-30 years, you need to think twice about calling it a sin......

j,

You have made numerous comments like this one. Where's your FAITH. Where is your 'trust in God'? Do you HONESTLY think that God will give ANYONE 'more children' than HE is willing to 'take care of'?

Once again we have opinions that are based on SELF rather than God. "What if I had a baby that was deformed?" SO WHAT. OBVIOUSLY if this happened it would BE GOD'S WILL.

You CANNOT serve TWO MASTERS. What we have here are those that WISH to 'serve THEMSELVES' rather than God. For IF you were willing to SERVE God, then these questions would NOT EVEN EXIST IN YOU HEARTS.

"What's in it for ME" seems to be the attitude of the day. "What PLEASES ME the MOST" seems to be what I hear here more than ANYTHING ELSE. What about GOD folks? How is it even POSSIBLE for those that 'think' in such a manner to EVER even KNOW God, much less attempt to PLEASE HIM?

I am amazed.................

MEC

 

[Guest]

Since you find this idea SO absurd, EXPLAIN to the good people here WHY God did NOT offer some form of birth control for the PREVIOUS ten thousand years?

There IS Biblical reference to a man attempting to use the ONLY physical means of birth control. He DIED for denying his wife the oportunity to conceive.

Free, I have suspected this of you since our FIRST encounters. Have you so completely 'bought into' this world and IT'S thinking? Are you a 'new age' Christian that BELIEVES that if EVERYONE is doing it, it's OK. And what WONDEROUS things will YOU do in the 'name of Christ'?

It's either a matter of God's will or OUR OWN. We have been TOLD to follow God's will and NOT our OWN. For our OWN is carnal in nature and can ONLY lead to DEATH.

How many Christians BELIEVE that they can follow their OWN WILL instead of that of God and STILL consider themselves to BE Christians? Oh how deceptive we can TRULY be; ESPECIALLY to ourselves.

I will leave you with this;

FREE, what if it was God's will that your son were to START and lead a church. Yet YOUR will was NOT to have this son. Now, will you still insist that using birth control to rebel against the will of God is OK? And if you don't understand what has been offered so far, then it would be impossible for you to state, (and have ME believe), that you could POSSIBLY be so IN TOUCH with The Spirit that IT would 'let you know' what God's plan is.

What I hear here is PERSONAL GREED and 'self will' speaking out AGAINST the Spirit. ''What if we are not READY for children?" WHAT? What I hear is 'let's get married so it's OK to have sex'. Boy have some of you folks got it REALLY confused.

It appears you have allowed some 'speaker' convince you that sex IS for fun and bought into it whole heartedly. Sex is NOT for FUN folks. It is a means of procreation that IS able to be enjoyed, but it's PURPOSE was not for US TO HAVE FUN. It's for BONDING between a man and woman IN LOVE. THIS IS how a man and woman BECOME ONE. Anything OTHER than this is fornication. If a man has sex with a wife that he does NOT LOVE, there is NOT difference between this and fornication. For marriage cannot have ANY meaning to God WITHOUT there being love involved.

Once again, we have those that choose to 'pick and choose' what they WANT concerning the Word. At LEAST be honest with yourselves. For there can be NO conformation without TRUTH being present FIRST. There can be NO Christian without 'truth' and 'conformity'. Only 'play christians', (those that like to 'play the game' of being a Christian).

MEC

MEC

MEC - do you believe that we can thwart the will of God?? Because in your example about "Free's son" you make it sound like Free could thward the will of God.

Where is YOUR faith in the Will of God?

Also, you have not adressed 1 Cor. 7:5-6 where Paul says that it is better for one to marry than to allow Satan to tempt them because they had a lack of self-control.

Sex is reserved for marriage to bring a husband and wife together - so that they can be trully naked (transparent) with one another - so there flesh may become one. Through sex, the marriage bond is strengthed. Sex allows for procreation, but also intimacy that only a husband and wife are to share.

 

[Imagican]

Re: reply

Does anyone see anything wrong with oral sex within marriage?



May God bless, Golfjack

I'll bite, (no pun intended).

Oral sex has BECOME acceptable even in the 'so called Christian community'. It is NOT a means of procreation and JUST as much as ANAL sex is WRONG. No matter how much one enjoys it, it CANNOT be MADE righteous simply BECAUSE one CHOOSES it to BE.

Oral sex was traditionally practiced by PROSTITUTES. It is unseemly and confusing so far as PURPOSE is concerned. There is NOTHING natural about it. That it has become SO POPULAR does NOT change the TRUTH.

Satan is a 'trickster'. He IS able to convince those that ALLOW him to BELIEVE whatever it is that they CHOOSE to believe. Big Foot, Nessy, aliens, etc.............. And for those that 'choose' to follow such lies, God Himself will offer strong delusion so that they will BELIEVE the lies. It's NO DIFFERENT than this issue of birth control or oral sex. All one NEED do is 'convince themselves' that it's OK and God Himself will offer STRONG delusion so that these WILL CONDEMN THEMSELVES. For it's NOT WHAT you do, but WHY YOU DO IT that WILL be judged.

MEC

 

[Free]

There IS Biblical reference to a man attempting to use the ONLY physical means of birth control. He DIED for denying his wife the oportunity to conceive.

And what reference might this be?

Free, I have suspected this of you since our FIRST encounters. Have you so completely 'bought into' this world and IT'S thinking? Are you a 'new age' Christian that BELIEVES that if EVERYONE is doing it, it's OK. And what WONDEROUS things will YOU do in the 'name of Christ'?

Not at all. I fight for orthodox Christian belief, some of which you deny, including the deity of Christ, so I doubt your ability to see the truth on any given biblical matter.

It's either a matter of God's will or OUR OWN. We have been TOLD to follow God's will and NOT our OWN. For our OWN is carnal in nature and can ONLY lead to DEATH.

It's God's will that a man and a woman have sex. No where in Scripture is it stated that God's will is that sex must be for procreation only or that their must be potential for procreation.

Read Song of Solomon and show me where I'm wrong. In fact, show me where I'm wrong from anywhere in Scripture.

How many Christians BELIEVE that they can follow their OWN WILL instead of that of God and STILL consider themselves to BE Christians? Oh how deceptive we can TRULY be; ESPECIALLY to ourselves.

How many can call themselves Christians yet believe whatever they want even if it contradicts the Bible and orthodox Christian belief? The deity of Christ is an essential tenet of the Christian faith.

FREE, what if it was God's will that your son were to START and lead a church. Yet YOUR will was NOT to have this son. Now, will you still insist that using birth control to rebel against the will of God is OK?

I really don't think you've read a thing I've written. Is it God's will that my son be mentally and/or physically handicapped because of the medication my wife needs? Is it morally acceptable for my wife and I to have kids knowing full well what would happen?

Do you not think that if it is God's will for my wife and I to have children that he can cause the birth control to fail? I am not at all rebelling against God, I am using my God-given brain to make wise decisions about when and when not to have children.

It appears you have allowed some 'speaker' convince you that sex IS for fun and bought into it whole heartedly. Sex is NOT for FUN folks. It is a means of procreation that IS able to be enjoyed, but it's PURPOSE was not for US TO HAVE FUN.

No, it wasn't a speaker. I actually read Song of Solomon, among other passages from Scripture. You're not married, are you?

Once again, we have those that choose to 'pick and choose' what they WANT concerning the Word. At LEAST be honest with yourselves. For there can be NO conformation without TRUTH being present FIRST. There can be NO Christian without 'truth' and 'conformity'.

But you pick and choose; that has been shown time and time again. Where is your conformity with the deity of Christ?

 

[destiny]

Mec, are you saying that you and your wife only come together sexually for the purpose of having children?
I suppose theres people out there who believe this way but I must say it is a very strange and anti-biblical belief. What happens if you decide early in the marriage that you don't wish to have any more children or the wife for some medical reason can't have any more? Do you become totally abstinate the rest of your married lives??

 

[cyberjosh]

Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control

Ok, but do you not also see that as a slight bit of a reprimand also? Not having self control. The same Paul told us to excercise self-control quite often in his epistles.

That is just plain silly and ignorant of the full intent of sex between a man and wife.

Alright then, would then mind giving me a synopsis of your view on God's intent for sexual relations between man and wife - and in light of that how, say, masturbation is wrong.

I would be interested in a biblical response.

~Josh

 

[golfjack]

reply

Doesn't the Bible say that the Marriage bed is undefiled? To me, this means oral sex, mutual masturbation, wearing very sexy clothes, strip teases, and anything that might turn our partners on. I believe before two people get married, sex must be discussed, along with finances, and religion. The biggest problem today in Christian marriages is the fact that they don't choose their mates to love forever. It is a good thing that they fall in love, but the most important thing is to havve God be the match maker.



May God bless, Golfjack

 

[cyberjosh]

Doesn't the Bible say that the Marriage bed is undefiled?

No, actually it doesn't. Go back and read it - it says "Let [keep] the marriage bed be undefiled." It's a command on our part and there can be perversions in side of marriage IMO if you don't have the Biblical basis of understanding what love is and how to love your spouse more than yourself.

 

[Guest]

Re: reply

Doesn't the Bible say that the Marriage bed is undefiled? To me, this means oral sex, mutual masturbation, wearing very sexy clothes, strip teases, and anything that might turn our partners on. I believe before two people get married, sex must be discussed, along with finances, and religion. The biggest problem today in Christian marriages is the fact that they don't choose their mates to love forever. It is a good thing that they fall in love, but the most important thing is to havve God be the match maker.



May God bless, Golfjack

So you are saying that it is wrong to 'turn on' one's spouse?

 

[golfjack]

reply

It's not wrong to turn on one's spouse.



May God bless, Golfjack

 

[Guest]

Re: reply

It's not wrong to turn on one's spouse.



May God bless, Golfjack

Then I must have misunderstood your previous post - it sounded like you were saying that it was wrong.

Would you mind explaining your previous post?