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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit
- Thread starter Edward
- Start date
Jethro Bodine
Member
It is the sin of rejecting the testimony of the Holy Spirit, in effect calling Him a liar:
"6 It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 9...the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son. 10 The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given (by his Spirit, vs.6) concerning His Son." (1 John 5:6,9-10 NIV)
What forgiveness is available to the one who rejects the forgiveness of God?
You can be wrong about a lot of things and still be saved. Forgiveness through Jesus Christ is not one of them. Get that wrong--like the Jews did--and you reject the very forgiveness through which a person is saved. There is no forgiveness for rejecting the message of forgiveness God has sent into the world by his Holy Spirit.
"6 It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 9...the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son. 10 The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given (by his Spirit, vs.6) concerning His Son." (1 John 5:6,9-10 NIV)
What forgiveness is available to the one who rejects the forgiveness of God?
You can be wrong about a lot of things and still be saved. Forgiveness through Jesus Christ is not one of them. Get that wrong--like the Jews did--and you reject the very forgiveness through which a person is saved. There is no forgiveness for rejecting the message of forgiveness God has sent into the world by his Holy Spirit.
V
VirginShallConceive
Guest
I would say that to falsely claim to speak in tongues is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
Edward
2024 Supporter
Wow Jethro, that's pretty far reaching if you think about it. I can see what you say and it makes sense to me, I agree with you. Something to meditate on a bit. I used to think thaat Blaspheming the Spirit was a specific thing or action, but am starting to understand that there's more to it than that.
Virgin, I have to agree with you too, that would be bearing false witness against the Spirit? Interesting.
Keep 'em coming!
Virgin, I have to agree with you too, that would be bearing false witness against the Spirit? Interesting.
Keep 'em coming!
Jethro Bodine
Member
I'm guessing the 'specific thing' you had in mind was saying a miracle of God was of the Devil (Matthew 12:24 NIV). What the Pharisees did in Matthew 12 was reject the testimony of the Spirit given to them through the evidence of the signs and wonders they saw performed (John 14:11 NIV, Hebrews 2:3-4 NIV), and came to the conclusion that Jesus could not be who he said he was because he was casting demons out by the devil.
Their is no provision of forgiveness available for rejecting the gospel of salvation in Christ by denying that Christ is the Messiah. It is the unforgivable sin for obvious reasons. From here you would see evidence of the unforgivable sin in a person by their conscious, uncaring decision to continue in their sins, in which case they would remain in the damnation of the unforgivable sin.
I see why he would suggest that's sinning the unforgivable sin because of the element of the 'false' signs. But really, I don't think faking tongues is an unforgivable sin.
IMO the unforgivable sin would be better illustrated in his example if the person spoke in real tongues, and the hearer knew it was real, but rejected the testimony of that sign from God (whatever it was that God was communicating to them) and continued in their unbelief. That continued unbelief then being seen in their continued lifestyle of sin and, eventually, a hardening of the heart by God himself--cementing the decision to reject Christ they themselves made.
Dustoftheearth
Member
That would then mean that most all of us who claim to be Christians, have at some point before we accepted Christ, committed this so called unforgivable sin.
Or you could just perhaps be wrong?
This is what scripture says is blasphemys against the Holy Spirit:
Mark 3:28 "Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter;
Mark 3:29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"-
Mark 3:30 because they were saying, "He has an unclean spirit."
Jethro Bodine
Member
I personally don't recall ever making the decision that everything I had heard about Christ, via the Holy Spirit, was a lie. I struggled with it for sure. Got mad about it. But I never out and out decided it was a lie and did what John says those who do that are doing--calling God a liar. But perhaps there are those who have done that but who came to their senses before God turned them over to that decision.
That's what I've been saying. Calling what you know to be the truth and of the Spirit (a miraculous sign, a voice in your heart, etc.) a lying, ungodly spirit, that's blaspheming the Spirit of grace. How can a person be forgiven such a sin? It's not something God can overlook in grace, like he can other things.
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Deborah13
Member
I said one time, "If that's your loving God, I don't want Him." This of coarse was in a conversation that went right to the heart of the nature of God. I saw God as a merciful and loving God, they saw Him much differently.
G
George Muller
Guest
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Here the Holy Spirit is called the "Spirit of grace" I think if one charged could be made against the pharisee and others in whom the Lord warned, it would be that they rejected Him and His grace?
Here the Holy Spirit is called the "Spirit of grace" I think if one charged could be made against the pharisee and others in whom the Lord warned, it would be that they rejected Him and His grace?
Dustoftheearth
Member
For all these other sins and blasphemies, there could (if repented of) be forgiveness given, but the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (they said He ‘Jesus’ has an unclean spirit) shall never be forgiven. Not in ‘this’ age, nor in the age to come.
I am also convinced that this specific act of ‘blasphemy of the Holy Spirit’ cannot be committed since Jesus died.
They (the Jews who accused Him) knew full well that the work Jesus did was of God, but they knowingly accused Him of having an unclean spirit. That was unforgivable regardless of any repentance.
The scripture clearly says what this specific unforgivable sin is.
Anything else is just man’s opinion and pure speculation, and a tool for the enemy to make false accusations against others.
I am also convinced that this specific act of ‘blasphemy of the Holy Spirit’ cannot be committed since Jesus died.
They (the Jews who accused Him) knew full well that the work Jesus did was of God, but they knowingly accused Him of having an unclean spirit. That was unforgivable regardless of any repentance.
The scripture clearly says what this specific unforgivable sin is.
Anything else is just man’s opinion and pure speculation, and a tool for the enemy to make false accusations against others.
G
George Muller
Guest
Jethro Bodine
Member
It's blaspheme against the Spirit, not Jesus, that can't be forgiven.
The Pharisees said the HOLY Spirit was actually an UNHOLY spirit, namely that of Beelzebub. People do the same thing when they, also, call the Holy Spirit a lying demon when He testifies the truth and the power of the gospel to them and they refuse to believe it.
It's arguable that perhaps by the time someone gets to that point of knowing the truth and rejecting it (as opposed to still making a decision about it) they have already been turned over to their rejection of the truth where God no longer reaches out to them with the truth. I don't know. Maybe somebody has a testimony to argue the point. I don't.
Jethro Bodine
Member
And, may I add, is the Holy Spirit no longer in the earth?
Jack Hectorman
Member
I have always held the view presented by Jethro Bodine so well in his clear and excellent posts 2, 5, 8, and 13.
Here is my take on it, which is essentially Jethro's position, with perhaps a few additional tidbits:
The "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit", aka the "Unpardonable Sin", is mentioned in Mark 3:22-30 and Matthew 12:31-32
In my view, the context of the Mark 3:22-30 passage, quoted below, is the key to correctly interpreting the sin of "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit."
Here is the text of the Mark 3:22-32 passage:
Here Are The Elements From the Mark 3:22-30 Passage:
- Jesus was driving out demons ...IE performing supernatural miracles which was proving that He was from God
- The teachers of the law saw these miracles
- Jesus said in the gospels that He performed miracles so that men could believe in Him (see John 10:25, 37-38 )
- These teachers of the law therefore should have believed in Him
- But they refused to believe in Him and that created a problem for them, namely how to explain the fact that Jesus could perform miracles
- So they came up with an alternative explanation, namely that Jesus was performing miracles by the power of Satan
- Jesus then made a very logical point, namely, Why would Satan oppose himself ? Answer: Satan would not oppose himself by casting out his own demons.
- It was in this context, with people doing what these teachers of the law were doing as noted above, that Jesus spoke of the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit
- Again, what were they doing? Answer: The were attributing Jesus' miracles (which could have helped them to believe) to the power of Satan
- Or put another way: They were in the process of continually rejecting the clear evidence that Jesus was who He said He was
- What would that mean? It would mean they could never be saved as long as they continued to do that...obviously it would mean that! (Thats why doing this is "unpardonable" IE there is only one cure for sin and that is to believe on the Lord Jesus as one's personal Savior)
- This is why Jesus ended this passage with the words: "He said this because they were saying, 'He has an evil spirit' " (IE because they were rejecting the evidence and attributing the source of the evidence to the power of evil
My Concluding Remarks:
* It is utterly impossible for any true Christian to commit the unpardonable sin because the true Christian has already believed in the Lord Jesus as Savior, and the unpardonable sin is the perpetual refusal to believe in Him as Savior.
* The Mark 3 and Matthew 12 passage must be interpreted in the light of all the rest of the entire context of the New Testament which is inharmonious with many of the popular interpretations of the so-called "unpardonable sin."
* The blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is not a sin that can be committed "one time" with no possible forgiveness thereafter, rather the sin MUST be on-going IE an unbeliever must CONTINUE to reject the evidence that could cause him to believe and be saved, by attributing that evidence to a source other than God
* Those unbelievers in Mark 3 and Matthew 12 could have STOPPED committing the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit if they had wanted to, they were not locked down in unbelief just because they had initially attributed the miracles performed by Jesus to the power of Satan, they could have changed their minds and believed in the Lord Jesus, had they wanted to do that
* The so-called "unpardonable sin" IE the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is nothing more and nothing less than to keep on continuously rejecting the evidence that Jesus is who He said He was by attributing that evidence to a source other than God. Why is that ? Because doing THAT means that the person that keeps on doing it, can NEVER believe and be saved.
* Note that the Pharisees, in Matthew 9:34, said the same thing as the unbelievers said in Mark 3 and Matthew 12
"But the Pharisees said, 'It is by the prince of demons that He drives out demons'"
* This is a very important verse to connect to what took place in Mark 3 and Matthew 12
John 10:25,37-38 (NIV) Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me... Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."
The teachers of the law in Mark 3:22-30 refused to do that, they thus committed the "unpardonable sin" of refusing to believe in the Lord Jesus as their Savior.
Anyway, thats my take on the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit aka the unpardonable sin.
♫♫
`
Here is my take on it, which is essentially Jethro's position, with perhaps a few additional tidbits:
The "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit", aka the "Unpardonable Sin", is mentioned in Mark 3:22-30 and Matthew 12:31-32
In my view, the context of the Mark 3:22-30 passage, quoted below, is the key to correctly interpreting the sin of "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit."
Here is the text of the Mark 3:22-32 passage:
Here Are The Elements From the Mark 3:22-30 Passage:
- Jesus was driving out demons ...IE performing supernatural miracles which was proving that He was from God
- The teachers of the law saw these miracles
- Jesus said in the gospels that He performed miracles so that men could believe in Him (see John 10:25, 37-38 )
- These teachers of the law therefore should have believed in Him
- But they refused to believe in Him and that created a problem for them, namely how to explain the fact that Jesus could perform miracles
- So they came up with an alternative explanation, namely that Jesus was performing miracles by the power of Satan
- Jesus then made a very logical point, namely, Why would Satan oppose himself ? Answer: Satan would not oppose himself by casting out his own demons.
- It was in this context, with people doing what these teachers of the law were doing as noted above, that Jesus spoke of the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit
- Again, what were they doing? Answer: The were attributing Jesus' miracles (which could have helped them to believe) to the power of Satan
- Or put another way: They were in the process of continually rejecting the clear evidence that Jesus was who He said He was
- What would that mean? It would mean they could never be saved as long as they continued to do that...obviously it would mean that! (Thats why doing this is "unpardonable" IE there is only one cure for sin and that is to believe on the Lord Jesus as one's personal Savior)
- This is why Jesus ended this passage with the words: "He said this because they were saying, 'He has an evil spirit' " (IE because they were rejecting the evidence and attributing the source of the evidence to the power of evil
My Concluding Remarks:
* It is utterly impossible for any true Christian to commit the unpardonable sin because the true Christian has already believed in the Lord Jesus as Savior, and the unpardonable sin is the perpetual refusal to believe in Him as Savior.
* The Mark 3 and Matthew 12 passage must be interpreted in the light of all the rest of the entire context of the New Testament which is inharmonious with many of the popular interpretations of the so-called "unpardonable sin."
* The blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is not a sin that can be committed "one time" with no possible forgiveness thereafter, rather the sin MUST be on-going IE an unbeliever must CONTINUE to reject the evidence that could cause him to believe and be saved, by attributing that evidence to a source other than God
* Those unbelievers in Mark 3 and Matthew 12 could have STOPPED committing the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit if they had wanted to, they were not locked down in unbelief just because they had initially attributed the miracles performed by Jesus to the power of Satan, they could have changed their minds and believed in the Lord Jesus, had they wanted to do that
* The so-called "unpardonable sin" IE the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is nothing more and nothing less than to keep on continuously rejecting the evidence that Jesus is who He said He was by attributing that evidence to a source other than God. Why is that ? Because doing THAT means that the person that keeps on doing it, can NEVER believe and be saved.
* Note that the Pharisees, in Matthew 9:34, said the same thing as the unbelievers said in Mark 3 and Matthew 12
"But the Pharisees said, 'It is by the prince of demons that He drives out demons'"
* This is a very important verse to connect to what took place in Mark 3 and Matthew 12
John 10:25,37-38 (NIV) Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me... Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."
The teachers of the law in Mark 3:22-30 refused to do that, they thus committed the "unpardonable sin" of refusing to believe in the Lord Jesus as their Savior.
Anyway, thats my take on the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit aka the unpardonable sin.
♫♫
`
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E
Elijah674
Guest
I like the way that you say that it is such & such! (it seems to me that you just did yourself in speaking for the Holy Ghost?)
Perhaps John can do better. 1 Johns 5:16-17 says that...
[16] If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
[17] All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
Then in Psalms 19:7-13 David makes some extra good DOCUMENTED statements. He says that all law is 'sweeter than honey';) (4 Commandment included!)
Then notice verse 13 that he uses the Word of 'ALSO' meaning something far the worse! And the Word of PRESUMPTOUS. It seems that David to me is saying that sin has a limit? Kind of like James 1:15.
[15] Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, [when it is finished, ] bringeth [forth death].
And hey, that has satan being the LIAR from the beginning! Gen. 3:15
--Elijah
Jethro Bodine
Member
Why is the Sabbath commandment the sum total of Christianity to you? Why do you persist in destroying people over this Sabbath thing?
When the Sabbath becomes more important to a person than how they treat people they are deceived and bring their own salvation into doubt. It's what we used to call 'having a spirit of religiosity'. Basically, the sin of the Pharisees. Law keepers on the outside, but disobedient on the inside. Whitewashed tombs who look good on the outside but who have no life inside of them. Every Christian has the responsibility to prove to themselves and others that they are not that. Sabbath keeping, like circumcision, proves nothing, and is nothing. What counts is faith expressing itself in love. Wake up before it's too late.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Thank you kind sir. You handled the issue very well yourself. :swords
Have a coke on my tab.
E
Elijah674
Guest
Wrong on both suggestions! (?)
'i' for one Keep the Lord's Commandments because of Love to & for Him. Matt. 5:24
[24] No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
--Elijah
PS: But what does that have to with the Sin against the Holy Spirit??