Jack Hectorman
Member
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Jethro @ 19
Thanks ...
.... and the coke was icy-cold good.
;-)
♫♫
Jethro @ 19
Thanks ...
.... and the coke was icy-cold good.
;-)
♫♫
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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I am also convinced that this specific act of ‘blasphemy of the Holy Spirit’ cannot be committed since Jesus died.
Is He dead?
Did not intend to offend, but it just sounded if you made the point based upon the death of the Lord, like He had past into a place where He did not exist? I think even your own scripture "He is now Lord of Lord and King of kings" would suggest that He is even More alive now, than He was when He was in the body? Your point just does not make biblical sense to me? Maybe you could explain how it was a "unforgivable sin" then when He was a man, but now that He is Lord of Lords, its not as bad?I am also convinced that this specific act of ‘blasphemy of the Holy Spirit’ cannot be committed since Jesus died.
Is He dead?
Did He die?
The difference was that Jesus was then in the flesh as man. He was made a little lower than the angels. He did not use His own authority, but the authority given of His Father by the Holy Spirit.
He is now risen far above the angels and all of creation. He is now Lord of Lords, and King of kings.
The scripture clearly says what this specific unforgivable sin was. You may have faith in your views and opinions, but I will stick with what God has said.
Why is the Sabbath commandment the sum total of Christianity to you? Why do you persist in destroying people over this Sabbath thing?
When the Sabbath becomes more important to a person than how they treat people they are deceived and bring their own salvation into doubt. It's what we used to call 'having a spirit of religiosity'. Basically, the sin of the Pharisees. Law keepers on the outside, but disobedient on the inside. Whitewashed tombs who look good on the outside but who have no life inside of them. Every Christian has the responsibility to prove to themselves and others that they are not that. Sabbath keeping, like circumcision, proves nothing, and is nothing. What counts is faith expressing itself in love. Wake up before it's too late.
Wrong on both suggestions! (?)
'i' for one Keep the Lord's Commandments because of Love to & for Him. Matt. 5:24
[24] No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
--Elijah
PS: But what does that have to with the Sin against the Holy Spirit??
Why is the Sabbath commandment the sum total of Christianity to you? Why do you persist in destroying people over this Sabbath thing?
When the Sabbath becomes more important to a person than how they treat people they are deceived and bring their own salvation into doubt. It's what we used to call 'having a spirit of religiosity'. Basically, the sin of the Pharisees. Law keepers on the outside, but disobedient on the inside. Whitewashed tombs who look good on the outside but who have no life inside of them. Every Christian has the responsibility to prove to themselves and others that they are not that. Sabbath keeping, like circumcision, proves nothing, and is nothing. What counts is faith expressing itself in love. Wake up before it's too late.
Wrong on both suggestions! (?)
'i' for one Keep the Lord's Commandments because of Love to & for Him. Matt. 5:24
[24] No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
--Elijah
PS: But what does that have to with the Sin against the Holy Spirit??
You tell me. You brought it up.
(Did you really mean to use Matthew 24:5 to make your point? It's supports what I said. Mark 12:33 NIV, Matthew 12:7 NIV)
You can be wrong about a lot of things and still be saved. Forgiveness through Jesus Christ is not one of them. Get that wrong--like the Jews did--and you reject the very forgiveness through which a person is saved. There is no forgiveness for rejecting the message of forgiveness God has sent into the world by his Holy Spirit.]
...and I always wonder why. I guess because miraculous signs are involved. Mention anything to do with those and you usually raise people's ire on both sides of the issue--those who are sure they don't happen, and those who are sure they do.Touchy subject I see.
Yes. Which John says is calling the Holy Spirit a liar. And unpardonable because the testimony being called a lie is the message of God's pardon.So when the Holy Spirit gives such testimony or performs miracles...and men reject this tesimony, or attribute it to Satan (satan) lol, this not only rejects Jesus and his forgivness but insults the Holy Spirit, which scripture says is unpardonable.
I think it's because everything is known to be truth by the Holy Spirit. He is THE convicter of truth. Nobody believes outside of the ministry of the Holy Spirit. That's his job.Scripture even says that such against the Son of Man (Jesus) is forgivable, but not the Holy Spirit...Why? Well, we don't know. But we know it is so.
At this point in my thinking I don't see any reason why a person could not stop calling the message of the gospel a lie after they've been shown by the Holy Spirit that it really is true. At least up to the point God turns them over to that decision and stops speaking to them through the Holy Spirit.To speak rejection to or about Jesus is forgivable if one repents of same. But not the Holy Spirit! It says so!
But WHAT has that got to do with the Sin against the Holey Ghost??
--Elijah
The key being ignorance. That's why God can overlook it. Not so with knowing the truth about forgiveness through Christ, but calling it a lie anyway just because that person doesn't want to accept it.In other words, God is not by the power of the Holy Spirit murdering people for some mysterious purpose, or giving cancer to anyone so they may draw closer to him. That would be blasphemy of the Holy Spirit according to the example of Jesus, yet you hear it all the time as God gets the blame for everything. Through ignorance, God does not hold the person accountable.
To me this is different because the person responded and then rejected the truth later. Different because there really is no opportunity for repentance available to the person who does that. I see the blasphemy Jesus is talking about as being that of unbelievers who have never moved toward the gospel in any way shape or form, but who can just stop not believing and be accepted by God (I think).In Hebrews 6 and 10, someone that knows better, knows what is evil and what is good, has seen the goodness and power of the Holy Spirit decided they no longer want the Lord (Turning back to Judaism in this case) then it would be impossible for you or I to convince that person to repent and come back. They know full well what they have given up, and would not even ask for forgiveness.
Good post and good points Mike.There can be no sin committed unless violation of light occurs. Only the Holy Spirit can reveal the word as the teacher. Even simple things like "Behold all that he has is in your power" seems simple, but taking a scripture in a private interpretation without light from the Holy Spirit to know what to compare can leave someone to believe that God sends murderers to kill the children of those that obey him.
Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit was attributed to man saying that the Holy Spirit is doing devils work by casting out their own. This is what triggered Jesus to make this remark and he also said the Kingdom of Hell and Kingdom of God are not working for one another. In other words, God is not by the power of the Holy Spirit murdering people for some mysterious purpose, or giving cancer to anyone so they may draw closer to him. That would be blasphemy of the Holy Spirit according to the example of Jesus, yet you hear it all the time as God gets the blame for everything. Through ignorance, God does not hold the person accountable.
In Hebrews 6 and 10, someone that knows better, knows what is evil and what is good, has seen the goodness and power of the Holy Spirit decided they no longer want the Lord (Turning back to Judaism in this case) then it would be impossible for you or I to convince that person to repent and come back. They know full well what they have given up, and would not even ask for forgiveness.
How the Sabbath was mentioned in all this is beyond understanding. Every day, everything you do should be with the Lord in mind. Not just a day to pick. We are led by the Spirit of God, and if the Spirit of God says rest, we obey and rest. Our standards should be a bit higher than just being concerned about a special day.
Mike.
To me this is different because the person responded and then rejected the truth later. Different because there really is no opportunity for repentance available to the person who does that. I see the blasphemy Jesus is talking about as being that of unbelievers who have never moved toward the gospel in any way shape or form, but who can just stop not believing and be accepted by God (I think).
Jack, you made a good post, but I am unclear on why you think that blaspheming the HS is forgivable if one repents and does not continue to do it...is there scripture to back up this point of yours?
They way it reads to me, is it reads "Unforgivable" and not "Unforgivable until one repents", Please expound on your point.
Very interesting Read Jack.
The simple truth is these people where calling a work of the Holy Spirit, an act of satans power. This is very common in the world and the chruch today,
I suggest that much study has been made by many to make the warning seem less clear in its purpose and intention than what the clear reading of the scriptures suggest?
...For the purpose of discrediting the gospel message that Jesus is the Christ. That, IMO, is the point Christ is driving at.The simple truth is these people where calling a work of the Holy Spirit, an act of satans power.
Calling miracles of the Spirit satanic, yes, but what is not common in the church today is doing that for the purpose of destroying the gospel message that Jesus is the Christ. That is the important point in all this.This is very common in the world and the chruch today...
I agree, but maybe not in the way you are saying. The missed point in all this is the matter of unbelievers and apostates rejecting the gospel message that has been clearly made known to them through a demonstration of power, not that we in the church have a hard time discerning what really is a miracle of God and what is not, which IMO is not a damnable offense. Much less unforgivable....I suggest that much study has been made by many to make the warning seem less clear in its purpose and intention than what the clear reading of the scriptures suggest?
I agree, but perhaps we disagree on what the message actually being communicated by Jesus really is. Is it about people honestly not being able to discern whether something really is a miracle of the Spirit or not, or is it about rejecting the testimony of the Spirit in the interest of rejecting the truth of the gospel that testimony speaks to? I vote for the latter.Having said that, I hope I am wrong because many are in big trouble on judgment day, if the scripture is taken as it is written.
I hear what you guys are saying, and agree in large part with your biblical logic, but I think the warning is deeper and it should not be far removed from its clear reading in the scriptures. The simple truth is these people where calling a work of the Holy Spirit, an act of satans power. This is very common in the world and the chruch today, I suggest that much study has been made by many to make the warning seem less clear in its purpose and intention than what the clear reading of the scriptures suggest? Having said that, I hope I am wrong because many are in big trouble on judgment day, if the scripture is taken as it is written.
The simple truth is these people where calling a work of the Holy Spirit, an act of satans power. This is very common in the world and the chruch today, I suggest that much study has been made by many to make the warning seem less clear in its purpose and intention than what the clear reading of the scriptures suggest? Having said that, I hope I am wrong because many are in big trouble on judgment day, if the scripture is taken as it is written.