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Blessing of Election !

Quantrill

 
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Who are of the remnant according to the Election of Grace ?​


Rom 11:5

Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

In this scripture Paul is specifically referring to some of his kinsmen according to the flesh. Now however that said, its a mistake to limit the remnant according to the election of grace to just ethnic jews or Pauls kinsmen according to the flesh. Thats as foolish as saying Salvation by Grace is limited to Pauls kinsmen according to the flesh, ethnic jews. Its written of the Gentiles Acts 15:11

11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we[jews] shall be saved, even as they[gentiles].

Acts 15:14,17-18

14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

17
That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

This sacred passage speaks to a remnant according to the election of Grace taken out of the gentiles.

The jews were just as fortunate as the gentiles that God had also reserved in them a remnant according to the election of Grace !

So? As I said, I don't disagree with the doctrine of election.

For some reason you seem to believe that everyone is against election except you.

But 'election' is not necessary to preach when giving the Gospel to the world, or every time you teach or preach the Word. For reasons already given.

Quantrill
 

brightfame52

 
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Doctrine of Unconditional Election​


Its crystal clear that the scriptures teach election, even unconditional election in salvation. Most people will agree that election is taught in scripture, but very few agree that its unconditional, and totally by grace and Gods sovereign good pleasure, not outside of Himself. Even the OT scripture indicates Gods sovereign prerogative in election and having mercy on whomever He will Ex 33:19

And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy. In this discriminatory fashion God exhibits His Glory

Now Paul alludes to this scripture in his treatise on unconditional election in Rom 9:11-16

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

We learn that there is what Paul terms "the purpose of God according to election" This is a salvaic purpose,. its answering the seeming dilema as to why so many jews in national israel are being lost Rom 9:1-6

I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Click to expand...
Its from this background that Paul develops his treatise on the doctirne of unconditional election, or "the purpose of God according to election"

Now let us look at what Rom 9 tells us: By writer of godsonlygospel.com "election is just not fair.

Speaking of Jacob and Esau, the sons of Isaac and Rebecca, Paul the apostle states: "For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, THAT THE PURPOSE OF GOD ACCORDING TO ELECTION MIGHT STAND, not of works but of Him that calleth; It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated" (Rom. 9:11-13). What a passage to confound the free willer! No wonder the Arminian minister prefers to conveniently shy away from this chapter in Romans and hide these things from his listeners. These verses show clearly that God made choice between Jacob and Esau before they were even born! God made choice between them as to which He would love and which He would hate. This was done, the Scriptures say, so that the purpose of God according to election might stand, an election which obviously could not have been based on any deeds, actual or foreseen, good or bad, that man had done or would do. The saved are those who are elected by grace through faith, not by anything they have done, that none should boast. The good works they do were appointed, or prepared, for them to do and they were not elected because of any good works they were foreseen would do:
I do differ with the author regarding his statement "The saved are those who are elected by grace through faith, "

I believe the saved are those who are elected by Grace, minus the faith, but Faith being the consequent of election by grace.

However the main point is, the elect are not elected based upon any foreseen actions or deeds , good or bad, that man has done or will do, because the election of grace was made before they were born to do any actions whatsoever, thats the Apostles point.

This treatise by Paul should forever eliminate the false idea that election is based upon anything foreseen in or of the sinner. Its totally unconditional ! Its totally of Sovereign prerogative !
 

brightfame52

 
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Mans portion is determined by the will of God, thus Paul says, " The purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him that calleth," ( Romans 9:11 ). Election is not based on any thing foreseen in the creature, but of the will of the God exclusively, and for His pleasure. Rev 4:11

11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Unconditional Election of some was for His Pleasure !
 

Quantrill

 
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Doctrine of Unconditional Election​


Its crystal clear that the scriptures teach election, even unconditional election in salvation. Most people will agree that election is taught in scripture, but very few agree that its unconditional, and totally by grace and Gods sovereign good pleasure, not outside of Himself. Even the OT scripture indicates Gods sovereign prerogative in election and having mercy on whomever He will Ex 33:19

And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy. In this discriminatory fashion God exhibits His Glory

Now Paul alludes to this scripture in his treatise on unconditional election in Rom 9:11-16

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

We learn that there is what Paul terms "the purpose of God according to election" This is a salvaic purpose,. its answering the seeming dilema as to why so many jews in national israel are being lost Rom 9:1-6


Its from this background that Paul develops his treatise on the doctirne of unconditional election, or "the purpose of God according to election"

Now let us look at what Rom 9 tells us: By writer of godsonlygospel.com "election is just not fair.


I do differ with the author regarding his statement "The saved are those who are elected by grace through faith, "

I believe the saved are those who are elected by Grace, minus the faith, but Faith being the consequent of election by grace.

However the main point is, the elect are not elected based upon any foreseen actions or deeds , good or bad, that man has done or will do, because the election of grace was made before they were born to do any actions whatsoever, thats the Apostles point.

This treatise by Paul should forever eliminate the false idea that election is based upon anything foreseen in or of the sinner. Its totally unconditional ! Its totally of Sovereign prerogative !

You're not listening. I don't deny election.

Quantrill
 

Quantrill

 
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Do you understand the post ? Describe its points I have set forth please.

Yes, I understand the post. Which is why I said you're not listening. I have no problem with election. You don't have to prove election to me.

It is your use, or I should say misuse of election, that I have a problem with.

Quantrill
 

brightfame52

 
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Yes, I understand the post. Which is why I said you're not listening. I have no problem with election. You don't have to prove election to me.

It is your use, or I should say misuse of election, that I have a problem with.

Quantrill
Prove you understand it.
 

brightfame52

 
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Gods Glory is manifested in Unconditional Sovereign Election and Reprobation. Election is a Matter of absolute Mercy Rom 9:11-15

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

God is not obligated to have mercy on any one of us, He would have been just to punish eternally everyone for their sins against Him.

However He purposed for His own Glory to have Mercy on only some, a remnant of mankind. Moses had asked God to show him His Glory, and the Lord answred Ex 33:18,19

18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.

19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.

See that, God in responding to Moses said He will proclaim HIS NAME ! And in that proclamation we have the sacred words " and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy."

The Glory of the Lord is bound up in His Sovereign Prerogative to be merciful and gracious to whomever He pleases understanding that He can withhold the same to whomever He pleases.

Ps 115:3

3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.
 

Quantrill

 
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Prove you understand it.

You can pick up our discussion at post #(41) if you like and read through it.

It is not 'election' that concerns me. It's your use/misuse of election.

I understand election and have no disagreement with it. I disagree with how you want to make it front and center of the Gospel message. And it isn't. Why? Because neither you, or the person you give the Gospel to, know if they are elect or not.

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brightfame52

 
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You can pick up our discussion at post #(41) if you like and read through it.

It is not 'election' that concerns me. It's your use/misuse of election.

I understand election and have no disagreement with it. I disagree with how you want to make it front and center of the Gospel message. And it isn't. Why? Because neither you, or the person you give the Gospel to, know if they are elect or not.

Quantrill
More evasion !
 

brightfame52

 
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Gods Glory in Election and Reprobation is that He has the right to do with His creatures, men, angels, devils etc whatever He pleases, we are as clay in a potters hand Jer 18:6

6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the Lord. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.

Isa 64:8

8 But now, O Lord, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Rom 9:20-21

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

And since Election denotes Gods Love for a people according to Deut 7:7

7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

He therefore has the right to love and choose some, and hate the rest Rom 9:13-16

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
 

brightfame52

 
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Election is unconditional because God has chosen His People by Grace before the foundation Eph 1:4, of course this means this means He could not have chosen them or their works. This also means it was not based upon any foreseen, works, decisions, or believing or anything they do or do not do. This is called Gods election of grace Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
 

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Now in considering the bible teaching on unconditional election, we must consider its logical counterpart the doctrine of unconditional reprobation. Thats not to say the reprobate wont be punished justly for their sins in reprobation, however God sovereignly chose to exercise justice on them for their sins, as opposed to having sovereignly chose to exercise mercy towards the elect for their sins.

Now here are some biblical concepts for unconditional reprobation:

. First, God hath refused or rejected some particular persons, on whom he purposed never to have mercy; this is most evident from the Scriptures following. “But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.” John 10:26 “But the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.” Rom11:7. “Therefore hath he mercy, on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.” Rom 9:18

These are people whom God has purposed not to heal/save Jn 12:39-40

39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
 

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If Election/Salvation was in ay degree conditioned or contingent on what a person does, even thinks, then they could not be by Grace. Election is of Grace minus works Rom 9:11;11:5-6 and Salvation is the same Eph 2:8-9; 2 Tim 1:9
 

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One writer writes and I totally agree as it regards unconditional election:

.Those who are ordained unto eternal life were not so ordained on account of any worthiness foreseen in them, or of any good works to be wrought by them, nor yet for their future faith, but purely and solely of free, sovereign grace, and according to the mere pleasure of God. This is evident, among other considerations, from this: that faith, repentance and holiness are no less the free-gifts of God than eternal life itself. "Faith is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" (Eph. 2.8). "Unto you it is given to believe" (Phil. 1.29). "Him hath God exalted with His right hand for to give repentance" (Acts 5.31). "Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life" (Acts 11.18). In like manner holiness is called the sanctification of the Spirit (2 Thess. 2.13), because the Divine Spirit is the efficient of it in the soul, and, of unholy, makes us holy. Now, if repentance and faith are the gifts, and sanctification is the work of God, then these are not the fruits of man's free-will, nor what he acquires of himself, and so can neither be motives to, nor conditions of his election, which is an act of the Divine mind, antecedent to, and irrespective of all qualities whatever in the persons elected. Besides, the apostle asserts expressly that election is not of works, but of Him that calleth, and that it passed before the persons concerned had done either good or evil (Rom. 9.11).JEROME ZANCHIUS

Man has hijacked what are Gifts of Gods Salvation applied, like Faith and Repentance and made them conditions man is suppose to perform before God will choose or save them.
 

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The bible explicitly affirms that God has blessed His Chosen people according to the truth He chose them to be holy and blameless before the foundation of the world, because in themselves they were not holy nor blameless. He also predestinated them, not according to their will, but according to the good pleasure of His Will, that it would be to the PRAISE of the GLORY of HIS GRACE minus their works, unconditionally. Eph 1:3-6

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,


To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
 

brightfame52

 
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Unconditional Election, the calling and predestination of certain people to Salvation before the world began Eph 1:4-5, this is Grace only. How is it that election of grace could be conditional before the world began, when no conditions by man could have been performed ? Man had not yet been Created, Adam had not yet been formed from the ground. How was any person Chosen to Salvation before the world began, if salvation is contingent upon his freewill to choose or believe first after the world began ? Also see Rom 9:11
 

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Election isn't conditioned on the saints believing, but the saint [believer] was chosen to be a saint[holy] Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Now that word holy is the greek word hagios and means :

  1. most holy thing, a saint

Its the same greek word Paul uses in the introduction to whom hes writing Eh 1:1

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

And saints here are believers, the faithful, so they were chosen unto that end before the foundation, and not because they are believers, saints, or faithful.

Election of Grace is unconditional.
 

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Is Unconditional Election of only some to Salvation unfair ?

Lets see what one Gospel writer has stated:

Election is not about a man’s will, it is not about man choosing God, but about God choosing whomsoever He wills to be saved. Again, people see this as unfair. They say, ‘What chance do we have if God does the choosing?’ The elephant in the room which all lost men fail to see, is: no man has any chance to choose God, for they are all dead in trespasses and sins (see Eph.2:1,5; Rom. 3:9). God is the only hope, the only chance any lost, Hell-deserving sinner has. Man is not neutral, he is dead. God’s choosing to save some helpless and hopelessly unworthy people is the glory of God. God explains this as His Goodness: “And He said, I will make all My goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy” (Ex. 33:19). The goodness of God is to be gracious to those whom He wills to be gracious, and to show mercy toward those whom He wills to be merciful. If you do not believe and abide in this doctrine, you do not have God. God’s choosing those to whom He would be merciful and gracious, IS GOD’S GOODNESS, not any display of unrighteousness on His part. Flee anyone and everyone who dares to claim that election is in any way unrighteous.

Let us now examine the question: “‘Is there unrighteousness with God?’ This is not an objection of Paul’s, but of an adversary, which he takes up and returns an answer to; and which itself greatly serves to settle and confirm the true sense and meaning of the apostle in this place; as that it could not be, that election and rejection of men should proceed according to their merits; or that God chooses some for their good works, and rejects others for their wicked works, because no man could ever pretend to charge God with unrighteousness on this account; nor could it be that God chose and rejected men, upon a foresight of their good and evil works, for this also would not be liable to such an objection; nor that the Jews, having made the law of none effect by their traditions, despised the Gospel, crucified Christ, and persecuted His disciples, are therefore cast off, and the Gentiles, being obedient both in word and deed, are received into favour, for this likewise would not be chargeable with unrighteousness by men; but that two persons, as Jacob and Esau, and the same may be said of all mankind, being upon an equal foot, not being yet born, nor having done either good or evil, an inequality, a difference is made between them, by God Himself; the one is chosen, the other passed by: now in this is some show, some pretence at least, for such an objection; nor is it any wonder to meet with it from the carnal reason of men; wherefore we may be sure that the latter, and not either of the former, is the true sense of the apostle; since only this, and not either of them, is liable to such an exception: let us attend to the apostle's answer, which is ‘first’ in his usual manner, by way of detestation and abhorrence, ‘God forbid’: God is not unrighteous in His nature; nor in any of His ways and works; nor in this, in choosing some and rejecting others. There is no unrighteousness with God in that part of predestination, commonly called election; for this is neither an act of justice, nor injustice; not of justice, but of grace and mercy; of undue and undeserved grace and mercy, of mere Sovereign grace and mercy; and is what God was not obliged to do; wherefore to choose some and not others, is no act of injustice; for injustice is a violation of justice, which has no place in this affair: if it is an act of injustice, it must be either to them that are chosen, or to them that are not; not to them that are chosen, to them it is an act of favour and good will, they are chosen to grace and glory, to holiness here, and happiness hereafter; not to them that are passed by, because they had no right nor claim to the grace and glory, which by this act are denied them, and therefore no injustice is done them.” Moreno Dal Bello https://www.godsonlygospel.com/by-grace-alone

What's being said is that No, unconditional election of some is not unfair, its not a matter of justice at all, but a matter of undeserved mercy
 
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