H
Hitch
Guest
God gave His laws to us because we are fallible.
I thought you would get the point, we are fallible; God is infallible.
So since it seems as though you're asking is God above the Law.?
Of course.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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I thought you would get the point, we are fallible; God is infallible.
So since it seems as though you're asking is God above the Law.?
Of course.
jasoncran
Member
why because god would have to kill all men as well who hasnt broken the ten commandments? NO one. its called mercy and he can do that.
try to understand that isreal was theocracy and that the law was the standard to live by to be set apart as a nation unto god. that is it function, it was never to be a means to make on holy. or believe. or keep one pure.
king manaseh was far worse then david and yet was forgiven.
god judges the hearts of man. he knows if you will change and if not.
try to understand that isreal was theocracy and that the law was the standard to live by to be set apart as a nation unto god. that is it function, it was never to be a means to make on holy. or believe. or keep one pure.
king manaseh was far worse then david and yet was forgiven.
god judges the hearts of man. he knows if you will change and if not.
W
Webers_Home
Guest
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One way to look at it is that the death penalty is primarily man's responsibility rather than God's.
†. Gen 9:5-6a . . But for your own life-blood I will require a reckoning: I will require it of every beast; of man, too, will I require a reckoning for human life, of every man for that of his fellow man! Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed
Which brings us right back to Oregon Gov. John Kitzhaber's moratorium on executions. It's his responsibility to comply with God's edict as to the punishment of murderers.
†. Rom 13:1-5 . . For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are ordained by God. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. If you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. For he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.
A Jewish man once suggested to me that since Yhvh has the power to legislate God's laws, then He eo ipso has the power to exempt Himself from said laws. In other words: he suggested that God's laws are for ruling men but not for ruling God; and, to his way of thinking; that's how Yhvh could let David slide for the capital crime of murder without compromising His integrity and dishonoring His own law.
But that double standard has never set well with me. Shouldn't the King of everything have the moral decency to play by the same rules that He imposes upon His subjects?
†. Gen 18:25 . . Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
Well, the Judge of all the earth had better do right or some of the Lord's sayings will certainly take Christianity's God down a notch or two.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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†. Mtt 7:2 . . For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
†. Mtt 7:3-5 . .Why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the beam in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother "Let me remove the speck from your eye" and look, a beam is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.<o:p></o:p>
Cliff<o:p></o:p>
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One way to look at it is that the death penalty is primarily man's responsibility rather than God's.
†. Gen 9:5-6a . . But for your own life-blood I will require a reckoning: I will require it of every beast; of man, too, will I require a reckoning for human life, of every man for that of his fellow man! Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed
Which brings us right back to Oregon Gov. John Kitzhaber's moratorium on executions. It's his responsibility to comply with God's edict as to the punishment of murderers.
†. Rom 13:1-5 . . For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are ordained by God. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. If you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. For he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.
I haven't been talking about the law per se; but about His own law.
A Jewish man once suggested to me that since Yhvh has the power to legislate God's laws, then He eo ipso has the power to exempt Himself from said laws. In other words: he suggested that God's laws are for ruling men but not for ruling God; and, to his way of thinking; that's how Yhvh could let David slide for the capital crime of murder without compromising His integrity and dishonoring His own law.
But that double standard has never set well with me. Shouldn't the King of everything have the moral decency to play by the same rules that He imposes upon His subjects?
†. Gen 18:25 . . Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
Well, the Judge of all the earth had better do right or some of the Lord's sayings will certainly take Christianity's God down a notch or two.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
†. Mtt 7:2 . . For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
†. Mtt 7:3-5 . .Why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the beam in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother "Let me remove the speck from your eye" and look, a beam is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.<o:p></o:p>
Cliff<o:p></o:p>
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H
Hitch
Guest
You've seen my response. History is full of accounts of men who disapproved of God's ways, you have a lot of company.
jasoncran
Member
uh. if god killed david how in the world would jesus have come?
and did you ever think that he that is the greatest sinner can be forgiven and by such turn of heart be the strongest saint?
that jew was and is still right. if theres no pain to the offended then there is no need to forgive. it always costs god to forgive us.
do you really know jesus. i thank god he was that scape goat for my sins and took them.I am worthy of death as i was a bisexual male.
and did you ever think that he that is the greatest sinner can be forgiven and by such turn of heart be the strongest saint?
that jew was and is still right. if theres no pain to the offended then there is no need to forgive. it always costs god to forgive us.
do you really know jesus. i thank god he was that scape goat for my sins and took them.I am worthy of death as i was a bisexual male.
Brokenhearted
Member
Why are American psuedo-Christians no protesting these wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya? these are innocent people, not convicted criminals on death row. To be concerned about lethal injection of mass murderers, but to cheer on our military as they slaughter millions of innocent people makes you a laughable, silly person, of a feeble intellect.
American pseudo-Christian, Israel worshippers hate everything Jesus Christ died for, and spit on the holy spirit. They are as phony as 3 dollar bills.
H
Hitch
Guest
Millions?Brokenhearted said:
WOW I didnt know we were doing that well.
Thanx!
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W
Webers_Home
Guest
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Cliff<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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Your analogy won't work because the so-called scapegoat wasn't slain for the sin offering; rather, it was banished. The remaining goat, the one upon whom the Lord's lot fell, was the goat slain for the sin offering (Lev 16:5-10). The Lord wasn't banished: he was slain.
Cliff<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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jasoncran
Member
ok. i stand corrected but this does say or allude to the idea of being purchased and redeemed by the lord
genesis 22
and also the near kinsmen
http://www.abideinchrist.com/messages/lev25v25.html
now then that cost the lord to do that.
genesis 22
and also the near kinsmen
http://www.abideinchrist.com/messages/lev25v25.html
now then that cost the lord to do that.
W
Webers_Home
Guest
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†. Mtt 11:27 . . No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son: and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him.
†. Mtt 7:22-23 . . Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Master, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them: I never knew you. Depart from me, you that work iniquity.
The Lord's statement doesn't target atheists, or Hindus, or Muslims, or Buddhists; no, it targets people who prophesied in the Lord's name, and exorcised demons in the Lord's name, and did many wonderful works in the Lord's name.
In other words; Mtt 7:22-23 targets Christians; and not just your average rank and file pew warmers either; but the cream of the crop— the celebrities of the Christian world; renowned for their accomplishments, their piety, their perseverance, their love, and their dedication. For example: Christians like Mother Teresa who prayed up a storm, published books, traveled the world, spoke to crowds, won accolades, were canonized to sainthood, and operated hostels and orphanages in impoverished cities.
It is to many of those kinds of Christian superstars that the Lord will say "I never knew you." Why? Because though they were busy as bees, ants, and termites in Christian service capacities; they were actually no friend of Christ's. I once heard an old-time preacher remark that if the Lord were to show up at a random selection of Christian churches next Sunday, he would not be welcome. In point of fact, many would resent his meddling and actually become indignant because they no doubt feel they are getting along just fine without him.
It's been my personal convictions for some time now that the average Christian church is like the one that used to be located at Loadicea. At Rev 3:14-22 the lord and master of Christianity is depicted outside the building banging on the door trying to get someone's attention to let him in. Imagine that. Not even the officials of that church were on friendly terms with Christ, let alone its rank and file pew warmers; and yet no doubt everyone in that Laodicean church would probably boast that they knew the Lord.
Cliff<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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Hardly anybody really knows Jesus; or his Father either for that matter.
†. Mtt 11:27 . . No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son: and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him.
†. Mtt 7:22-23 . . Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Master, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them: I never knew you. Depart from me, you that work iniquity.
The Lord's statement doesn't target atheists, or Hindus, or Muslims, or Buddhists; no, it targets people who prophesied in the Lord's name, and exorcised demons in the Lord's name, and did many wonderful works in the Lord's name.
In other words; Mtt 7:22-23 targets Christians; and not just your average rank and file pew warmers either; but the cream of the crop— the celebrities of the Christian world; renowned for their accomplishments, their piety, their perseverance, their love, and their dedication. For example: Christians like Mother Teresa who prayed up a storm, published books, traveled the world, spoke to crowds, won accolades, were canonized to sainthood, and operated hostels and orphanages in impoverished cities.
It is to many of those kinds of Christian superstars that the Lord will say "I never knew you." Why? Because though they were busy as bees, ants, and termites in Christian service capacities; they were actually no friend of Christ's. I once heard an old-time preacher remark that if the Lord were to show up at a random selection of Christian churches next Sunday, he would not be welcome. In point of fact, many would resent his meddling and actually become indignant because they no doubt feel they are getting along just fine without him.
It's been my personal convictions for some time now that the average Christian church is like the one that used to be located at Loadicea. At Rev 3:14-22 the lord and master of Christianity is depicted outside the building banging on the door trying to get someone's attention to let him in. Imagine that. Not even the officials of that church were on friendly terms with Christ, let alone its rank and file pew warmers; and yet no doubt everyone in that Laodicean church would probably boast that they knew the Lord.
Cliff<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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jasoncran
Member
really? so you dont pray to him. repented of your sins. i know of jesus by his work in my life and what is written.
of course nobody knows him totally but that isnt what i meant.
i see that you are of the legalist nature. have at it. i spent years under that as a jw and need not to be under that yoke.
why would paul and the apostles die for someone they hardly know?
paul wanted death. he considered it to be joyous.yet only saw him in a vision.
of course nobody knows him totally but that isnt what i meant.
i see that you are of the legalist nature. have at it. i spent years under that as a jw and need not to be under that yoke.
why would paul and the apostles die for someone they hardly know?
paul wanted death. he considered it to be joyous.yet only saw him in a vision.
W
Webers_Home
Guest
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<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
As for Paul, he was on direct speaking terms with the Lord on more than just the day of his conversion (e.g. Acts 18:9, Acts 23:1, 2Cor 12:9). In point of fact, the Lord was Paul's personal tutor in all things pertaining to the Gospel (Gal 1:12). In addition; Paul says he actually saw Christ risen from the dead. (1Cor 15:8)
It's no surprise to me that those guys were all willing to die for Christ because he was somebody they all knew personally. I think you might be hard pressed to find even one Christian nowadays who's had a close encounter of a third kind with the Lord; and even if somebody were to say they did, we'd all probably write them off as either a liar or schizophrenic.
Cliff<o:p></o:p>
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For the Christians depicted in Mtt 7:22-23; prayer is really no more effective, and no different than a little kid talking to an imaginary playmate: and the Lord said there are many.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
The original apostles were with the Lord on a daily basis for about three years. I think that says they knew the Lord a lot better than "hardly"
As for Paul, he was on direct speaking terms with the Lord on more than just the day of his conversion (e.g. Acts 18:9, Acts 23:1, 2Cor 12:9). In point of fact, the Lord was Paul's personal tutor in all things pertaining to the Gospel (Gal 1:12). In addition; Paul says he actually saw Christ risen from the dead. (1Cor 15:8)
It's no surprise to me that those guys were all willing to die for Christ because he was somebody they all knew personally. I think you might be hard pressed to find even one Christian nowadays who's had a close encounter of a third kind with the Lord; and even if somebody were to say they did, we'd all probably write them off as either a liar or schizophrenic.
Cliff<o:p></o:p>
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